Do I NEED sway control??

[Matt Kline]

Good point, but isn't that just as aptly said about life in general. "I went 60 years without cancer and then bingo."
Point is. Many people are new on here, and new to towing. Making them feel like they are going to upset if they don't have sway control is a very broad statement. I'm pulling 5,300 pound with an 8,000 pound truck. That tail ain't gonna wag the dog. You can't say across the board that people need sway control, and most that need it also need a beefier TV.
When I was new I bought into all sorts of crap on this forum because I didn't know any better. Gave away my new Goodyear Marathons and bought what was being touted here. Now after over 100,000 miles towing my Airstream I KNOW

[panheaddale]

Originally Posted by Matt Kline

Good point, but isn't that just as aptly said about life in general. "I went 60 years without cancer and then bingo."
Point is. Many people are new on here, and new to towing. Making them feel like they are going to upset if they don't have sway control is a very broad statement. I'm pulling 5,300 pound with an 8,000 pound truck. That tail ain't gonna wag the dog. You can't say across the board that people need sway control, and most that need it also need a beefier TV.
When I was new I bought into all sorts of crap on this forum because I didn't know any better. Gave away my new Goodyear Marathons and bought what was being touted here. Now after over 100,000 miles towing my Airstream I KNOW

This is why I keep reading these posts. I have to sit and chuckle most of the time seeing these people worried about sway bars and air hitches and every other toy to pull with they think they must have. If the tow vehicle is not undersized like most of these are then they can safely tow without all these gadgets and never have an issue. An F250 and an airstream seems to be about right for TV. WDH is not mandatory but if you think it will make you safer then by all means buy that hitch. Make sure you are very through with your maintenance on your TV and trailer.

[panheaddale]

Originally Posted by Mike Leary

You might do some checking to see when Ford quit making "twin-I-Beams"; it was a while ago, a long while ago.

WRONG ANSWER MIKE> I have a 2002 F350 AND IT HAS TWIN I BEAM. The 3/4 and 1 ton trucks still have I beam construction

[Skater]

Originally Posted by Matt Kline

Every interstate in every state is about the same in my opinion, and I HATE the danged trucks. Drove one for ten years in my early days and know how hard it is to stop 80,000 pounds. In my day we were governed to 62 mph. Now the sky is the limit and it's not safe.

LOL...I usually prefer dealing with trucks - people in cars often do incredibly stupid things like pulling out in front of you or not letting you merge in as your lane ends. Funny to hear a former truck driver say the opposite.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by Matt Kline

Good point, but isn't that just as aptly said about life in general. "I went 60 years without cancer and then bingo."
Point is. Many people are new on here, and new to towing. Making them feel like they are going to upset if they don't have sway control is a very broad statement. I'm pulling 5,300 pound with an 8,000 pound truck. That tail ain't gonna wag the dog. You can't say across the board that people need sway control, and most that need it also need a beefier TV.
When I was new I bought into all sorts of crap on this forum because I didn't know any better. Gave away my new Goodyear Marathons and bought what was being touted here. Now after over 100,000 miles towing my Airstream I KNOW

I'm always undecided as to whether or not I should wade in on these sorts of posts. I will wade in, though, as I don't think it's helpful to newbies to make such sweeping statements; at best it shows a lack of some fairly basic knowledge of towing dynamics.

Sway is not a function of the tow vehicle. The trailer sways and it sways about its single point of attachment to the tow vehicle, assuming you don't have WD or sway control, and its the same for any ball hitch trailer regardless of tow vehicle. The likelihood of the trailer swaying is increased for any number of reasons including wind, road surface and speed. I suppose the tow vehicle itself could cause some sway if it's not set up corrrectly or being driven badly but I assume everyone here sets up and drives properly. If you do nothing to mitigate the possibilty of sway then when any of the preceeding factors come into play then your trailer will be at a much greater risk of sway and it doesn't matter if you're attached to a monster truck, that single point of attachment will be your weakest link.

If you want to make responsible statements for newbies then perhaps you should be saying that despite having a big and powerful truck, you should invest in a properly adjusted weight distribution system to spread the load across all the available axles as there are no disadvantages to WD, and then add sway control or elimination as an added safety measure. That way your trailer will be at a much lesser risk of swaying although, and you need to be aware of this, if that trailer ever encounters harsh enough conditions it may just sway to the point of no return any way, regardless of your tow vehicle.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

I'm always undecided as to whether or not I should wade in on these sorts of posts. I will wade in, though, as I don't think it's helpful to newbies to make such sweeping statements; at best it shows a lack of some fairly basic knowledge of towing dynamics.

Sway is not a function of the tow vehicle. The trailer sways and it sways about its single point of attachment to the tow vehicle, assuming you don't have WD or sway control, and its the same for any ball hitch trailer regardless of tow vehicle. The likelihood of the trailer swaying is increased for any number of reasons including wind, road surface and speed. I suppose the tow vehicle itself could cause some sway if it's not set up corrrectly or being driven badly but I assume everyone here sets up and drives properly. If you do nothing to mitigate the possibilty of sway then when any of the preceeding factors come into play then your trailer will be at a much greater risk of sway and it doesn't matter if you're attached to a monster truck, that single point of attachment will be your weakest link.

If you want to make responsible statements for newbies then perhaps you should be saying that despite having a big and powerful truck, you should invest in a properly adjusted weight distribution system to spread the load across all the available axles as there are no disadvantages to WD, and then add sway control or elimination as an added safety measure. That way your trailer will be at a much lesser risk of swaying although, and you need to be aware of this, if that trailer ever encounters harsh enough conditions it may just sway to the point of no return any way, regardless of your tow vehicle.

You've got that right. The worst trailer swaying I've seen was basicly a large job-site type generator with an axle and coupler on it, it was swaying so bad I wouldn't have been surprised to see it rip the coupler off the ball or trailer.

Oh yeah it was being towed by a 10 wheel dump truck not a tiny (by comparison) duel rear wheel F350 so I wouldn't be surprised if the driver never felt it back there.

[slowmover]

WDH is not mandatory

Yes, it is. A requirement. Anti-sway is what is optional.

What is funny are folks with a $60k TT pulled by a $50k TV lacking a WDH with integrated anti-sway that will run them them all of $2.5k. Pretty much eliminating sway altogether.

Trailer sway will occur and a top-heavy, poor-handling. poor-braking TV -- a pickup -- is no help at all, it is in fact more likely to be a cause for trouble . . or getting out of it.

Why folks buy the best performing TT and cripple it with a millstone like a pickup is the real mystery.

.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Matt Kline

....... You can't say across the board that people need sway control, and most that need it also need a beefier TV. I KNOW

And I say you should have sway control.....Beefy has nothing to do with sway.
I KNOW

Bob

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Matt Kline

Good point, but isn't that just as aptly said about life in general. "I went 60 years without cancer and then bingo."
Point is. Many people are new on here, and new to towing. Making them feel like they are going to upset if they don't have sway control is a very broad statement. I'm pulling 5,300 pound with an 8,000 pound truck. That tail ain't gonna wag the dog. You can't say across the board that people need sway control, and most that need it also need a beefier TV.
When I was new I bought into all sorts of crap on this forum because I didn't know any better. Gave away my new Goodyear Marathons and bought what was being touted here. Now after over 100,000 miles towing my Airstream I KNOW

There is plenty to take apart in what you wrote that itself is incorrect. I've seen DRW pickups -- loaded with construction equipment in the bed -- taken right off the road by the 1800-lb compressor being towed. Not once but twice. And these are not the only examples. The tail wags the dog every time.

And a pickup is the weak link for keeping the combined rig of an Airstream and TV upright and lane-centered. It is pretty well the worst TV type when it comes to this. Driver skill, and experience, are no panacea as trailer towing, well done, comes down to risk managment. In that, integrated sway control is is a proven combination.

I think were you to tow with a PULLRITE or one of the VPP hitches that you would be able to tell the difference. Haven't yet come across anyone that hasn't.

Without question one could follow you down the road before and after the installation of on of these hitches with a video camera and show the reduction of movement of the TT relative to the TV . . . movement that is covered up by the crude suspension and steering of most pickups; it isn't felt. But it is most certainly there. All other maneuvers are far shorter in both time/distance as to the TT being back in alignment, to say nothing of when adverse situations arise. (And this is against a hitch such as a Dual Cam; no anti-sway at all and it is even more dramatic).

You may be satisfied with what you have (or don't), but don't confuse inferior performance with superior performance. It is real, and it is obtainable for reasonable cost.

.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Should I use sway control or not, is always an interesting question.

Safety, rarely is kicked to the curb, but some Airstreams owners have choosen to do so.

One thing that can be said about sway control, without exception.

IT DOES ADD TO SAFE TOWING, AND NEVER EVER SUBTRACTS FROM IT.

Paying tons of money for a tow vehicle and trailer, is no excuse to bypass sway control, since it costs so very little.

But, losing control of the rig, causing damage to it and possibly personal injury to who knows who, as well as the passengers, because sway control was bypassed, is about the sadest excuse someone could ever offer.

It's almost as bad as skydiving, with an iffy parachute.

It's not a matter of "what", it becomes a matter of "when".

Statistics more than point that out.

I have helped all to many owners, who choose to ignore sway control, that suddenly joined the loss of control club, which does not require any membership fees.

Andy

[SteveSueMac]

Do I NEED sway control?


As trite as it may sound, it's better to have and not need it than to need and not have it.

I have no financial interest in Sean's company but this logic is why I went with the ProPride.

My first choice would have been the PullRite but they no longer manufacture them for my 2013 Chevy. The PullRite puts the pivot point right at the rear axle (it's an upside down 5th wheel under the bed of the pickup- simple genius really!).

Both the Hensley Arrow and ProPride VIRTUALLY project the pivot point close to the rear axle and prevent sway from happening in the first place. The ball/coupler is no longer the pivot point. To me, that was EASILY worth the downside of the high price tag and extra weight. As the PP is the updated version of the Hensley, I felt more comfortable there.

I also strongly considered the Andersen because in a world of trade offs, it's much less expensive, it weighs much less, I thought the friction brake sleeve was a REALLY good design to react to a sway event AND I understood my Chevy's owner manual to say that WD was OPTIONAL for my specific trailer specs (so the argument about whether or not it could do that work effectively wasn't a concern for me). I got quite an education in this forum on the quality of user manuals and lapses in my own judgement on that point :-)

So in the final analysis - I decided it was better for me to eliminate sway and not need to worry about it rather than to experience sway and hope I have all the right puzzle pieces on board (including skill) to react to it.

I can't imagine going without ANYTHING! That just seems irresponsibly risky to one's self, family, financial investment and the same of innocent victims one could injure or worse in one's path. Which is also why my wife and I went to a CDL driving school for 2 days before taking the AS out on the road. Probably not necessary, but same logic applied....

Safe travels, everyone!

[pmclemore]

Do you NEED it? Nah.


Not until you do, that is.

Pat

[Foiled Again]

I only needed it once - last monday - near Mt. Vernon, Ill.

my next trailer has a Hensley.

Paula, foiled again and again!

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by slowmover

WDH is not mandatory

Yes, it is. A requirement. Anti-sway is what is optional.

What is funny are folks with a $60k TT pulled by a $50k TV lacking a WDH with integrated anti-sway that will run them them all of $2.5k. Pretty much eliminating sway altogether.

Trailer sway will occur and a top-heavy, poor-handling. poor-braking TV -- a pickup -- is no help at all, it is in fact more likely to be a cause for trouble . . or getting out of it.

Why folks buy the best performing TT and cripple it with a millstone like a pickup is the real mystery.

.

Hi, you have made this, or a similar statement, several times on this forum, but in your signature it seems as though you have a Dodge pickup. Am I missing something?

[Gene]

As I understand it, the argument for no sway control is that a big heavy truck will tow a lighter trailer and keep it behaving well.

I don't think it is only a question of what is heavy and what is not. When a trailer starts to sway, it exerts lateral forces on the tow vehicle, especially on the rear axles and tires. It doesn't matter that much what the total weight of the tow vehicle is, but it does matter how much the back of the vehicle weighs and how much adhesion the tires have to the road.

It seems to me worn tires and a pickup with little weight in the back are most susceptible to being affected by trailer sway. But even a 3 ton SUV is going to have less than 1.5 tons in the back and certainly be lighter in the rear than most trailers, even many little ones.

A selling point for Saabs back in the '60's when front wheel drive was new to people was to ask them to push a block of wood from the rear and see it it went straight. It never did (not an entirely fair test, but it does illustrate a point). Pulling it (as with front wheel drive) caused the block of wood to go straight. This leads me to think that the most dangerous time for sway is when the trailer is pushing the tow vehicle—downhill and slowing being those times.

Maybe that Toronado without rear wheels towing a trailer is the way to go.

Gene

[pmclemore]

I have a chev 2500 dmax pulling my 31 footer. I originally had an old style dual cam but one incident sent me to a hensley.

Pat

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, you have made this, or a similar statement, several times on this forum, but in your signature it seems as though you have a Dodge pickup. Am I missing something?

I've towed with cars and trucks. The former is superior for what counts the most. The risk inherent with a pickup is not offset by greater payload capacity, but it's what I need at present (and it was purchased with IRS business needs at that time). It is also paid for, has averaged 21-mpg for all miles travelled (192k so far) and has seen less than $500 in repairs in ten years.

A "new" trailer has been bought that will require a lot of work. The truck bed is the garage for tools, supplies & equipment as I am a fulltimer and own no other home. At some point it will no longer be needed for such, and a better TV sourced at that time.

As things stand I can run rings around any 5'er out there. Sadly, I can do the same against nearly any A/S + pickup + the usual inferior WD hitch even though the A/S has the superior suspension.

And I chose this truck specifically not just for the unquestioned superiority of the Cummins engine, but for the IFS + rack & pinion steering which makes it the better road choice over any 4WD truck, and especially any straight-axle + recirc ball steering spec versions.

Even among trucks there are important differences.

.

[panora2]

My TV is also a F250 superduty. I just pulled my (new to me) Excella 31ft 715 miles home. Went through plenty of hwy construction, narrow lane switches with Semi trucks in the next lane competing for the yellow stripe. I can tell that my vehicle was measured and balanced with the absolute perfect balance of weight between front and rear tires. This could only happen because of the Equalizer torsion hitch. It's way more than sway. Without this type of hitch you could conceivably reduce steering on the front when you hit the big bumps or swells in the pavement. Listen to what people are saying here. You would be wise to camp in the driveway or else you could have the tail wagging the dog!
Good luck and just finance it on your credit card until you get it paid for. But at least enjoy your trip.

[Gene]

'Mover, the Tundra has rack and pinion steering too. It has independent front suspension if that is what you mean by "ifs". I don't think there are many trucks without independent suspensions, front or rear, anymore. Toyota had them in the 1980's, but I think they went to independent suspensions with the Tacomas.

Gene

[slowmover]

Still some live axle 4WD trucks out there with recirculating ball steering. Numb and dumb, is the driving experience (and made worse by lft kits and offroad tires). The lack of feedback --isolation -- is what many believe to be "better" when it is patently worse ("Oh, our new giant truck is wonderful"). No precision, inherent, is what gets many in trouble, IMO.

When it is all said and done the penalty for payload capacity is high COG . . and it is not outweighed by truck spec. The worse spec just gets the driver in trouble sooner (less time to take appropriate action).

A VPP hitch is more for the TV than for the TT when we speak of truck & Airstream. Cheap relatively for any rig, but dirt cheap for a pickup as TV. The same can be said for trailer disc brakes.

.