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Old 10-18-2011, 09:24 AM   #253
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I just returned from a round trip from the Reno area to Seattle and back. This time I carefully watched fifth wheels being towed and trailers and to some extent they all sway some and move about their axles. Even the 18 wheeler trailers constantly move about. I suspect some is from driver inputs keeping the lane and some from environmental/road issues. There was no wind. Every TT and FW was moving about their pivot points at the axles and it was noticiable and this is on I-5 that has good alignment and geometrics. The fifth wheel hitich is a very effective sway control due to its location. If you think your TT does not sway gently going down the road you probably should follow it and watch. It is constantly trying to move about the axles as a pivot point. Only the hitch and the tow vehicle keep it in line.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:03 PM   #254
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Were any of those VPP hitches?
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:16 PM   #255
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Were any of those VPP hitches?
Who are you asking the question?

Andy
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:48 AM   #256
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A trailer normally travels directly behind the tow vehicle, absent any disturbing forces. The tires will generate side force proportional to the amount of deflection from straight line motion up to about 12 degrees. At 12 degrees, that side force approaches 1 G; in other words, the amount of force trying to return the trailer to straight behind your truck can be almost as much as your trailer weighs. However, at zero deflection that force is zero... so when a side gust occurs, your trailer will appear to sway. THIS DOES NOT MATTER; it is normal and expected behavior, and as long as the driver doesn't attempt to saw the wheel back and forth to correct a non-existent problem, all is well. The same thing happens when a bump or rut forces the trailer to deflect; it will move over, and then back again exactly as a pendulum behaves when disturbed from equilibrium.

If you could run beside your trailer as it was being towed, and you could push on it sideways, you could measure the deflection from straight line motion. The same thing happens of course when traveling on a side slope - the trailer tracks slightly downhill until the slip angle is enough to generate the needed side force to keep the trailer from moving any further down the hill.

The use of spring bars will add to the restoring torque caused by a deflection by a fraction; this will reduce the size of deflections caused by wind, uneven road surfaces, etc. But it cannot remove them, of course, since the force at zero deflection is zero.

- Bart
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:30 AM   #257
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We have a 2011 Airstream 25FB tow with 2011 F-150 Platinum 4X4 EcoBoost, now over 4000 miles of towing, The mid size Airstream follows behind without a problem, high cross winds, no sway and no problem, - passing large 18 wheelers, no sway and no problem. I do believe in buying the best, and that is why I purchased an Airstream. The very low center of gravity and aerodynamics makes this very easy to tow. The GVW of my airstream is 7400# and I am more of a minimalists, so it is way under 7000#'s most of the time. The only addition to my F-150 is RoadMaster Active Suspension.
Roadmaster Active Suspension, rear leaf spring suspension, simple installation, improve road handling, reduce sway, reduce dangerous body roll on cornering, eliminate bottoming out, eliminate wheel hop, eliminate axle wrap, strengthen the rear leaf s
This combined with Fords sway system keeps me very safe. I just hitch up and go, I like to keep it simple and I truly believe for me, I do not need anything, but to hitch up and go...... This works for me, is the key here..... I would not tow anything heaver without sway bars/control, The F-150 is a good match for my Airstream and the F-250 is an overkill and pulls it well, because I towed my new Airstream off the lot with a 2011 F-250 I had and it was like running solo, I opted to trade to the F-150 for ride improvement.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:30 AM   #258
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One more post on this subject....we just returned from an estimated 3750 mile trip to see the fall colors in the Northeast with stops at Niagra Falls, Boston, Cape Cod, Gettysburg, Washington DC, and Monticello.

Left the Monticello area Sunday morning at about 8 AM, and rolled in here at about 4PM yesterday. Running on the cruise control at 68 MPH most of the way, and traveled over some of the roughest roads I believe I've ever experienced, and yesterday thru bad winds, and never so much as a hint of a sway with the ProPride. Best hitch in the world IMHO.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:38 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by LaBigDogs View Post
We have a 2011 Airstream 25FB tow with 2011 F-150 Platinum 4X4 EcoBoost, now over 4000 miles of towing, The mid size Airstream follows behind without a problem, high cross winds, no sway and no problem, - passing large 18 wheelers, no sway and no problem. I do believe in buying the best, and that is why I purchased an Airstream. The very low center of gravity and aerodynamics makes this very easy to tow. The GVW of my airstream is 7400# and I am more of a minimalists, so it is way under 7000#'s most of the time. The only addition to my F-150 is RoadMaster Active Suspension.
Roadmaster Active Suspension, rear leaf spring suspension, simple installation, improve road handling, reduce sway, reduce dangerous body roll on cornering, eliminate bottoming out, eliminate wheel hop, eliminate axle wrap, strengthen the rear leaf s
This combined with Fords sway system keeps me very safe. I just hitch up and go, I like to keep it simple and I truly believe for me, I do not need anything, but to hitch up and go...... This works for me, is the key here..... I would not tow anything heaver without sway bars/control, The F-150 is a good match for my Airstream and the F-250 is an overkill and pulls it well, because I towed my new Airstream off the lot with a 2011 F-250 I had and it was like running solo, I opted to trade to the F-150 for ride improvement.
How does that system transfer weight to the front wheels of your truck?

Andy
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:16 AM   #260
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My thoughts also, I would be interested in rear axle overload and loss of stearing control issues. jim
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:19 AM   #261
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How does that system transfer weight to the front wheels of your truck?

Andy
Um, he doesn't. He is masking physics with aesthetics.
Although, just lifting the back of the truck does change the CG a little forward....but VERY LITTLE. Maybe 40 to 50lbs, at the very most! Not even worth bringing into the discussion.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:23 AM   #262
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If one wears a seat belt in their vehicle, why would they tow without a weight stabilizing / anti-sway system?

Sorry, it doesn't make any "safety" sense.

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Old 10-19-2011, 08:30 AM   #263
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If one wears a seat belt in their vehicle, why would they tow without a weight stabilizing / anti-sway system?

Sorry, it doesn't make any "safety" sense.

I agree.

Raising the back end of a truck, with whatever system, other than torsion bars, does "nothing" more that exactly that. It cannot transfer any weight to the steering axle.

But what it does do, is raise the back end of the truck so that it doesn't bottom out, and stops the headlights from shining sky high.

Andy
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:24 PM   #264
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Obviously, it would be a good idea to weigh that TV before and after to check axle loads. SAE thought it a good idea to use rear axle air shocks in testing TT/TV handling on a mid-70's Monte Carlo (truly, a representative TV).
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:32 PM   #265
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Obviously, it would be a good idea to weigh that TV before and after to check axle loads. SAE thought it a good idea to use rear axle air shocks in testing TT/TV handling on a mid-70's Monte Carlo (truly, a representative TV).
I wonder if they know that to use air shocks (inflated), air bags(inflated), overload springs, Monroe "Load levelers", or anything of the like, basically levels the tow vehicle, but transfers little to no weight to the steering axle, AND defeats the purpose of a load equalizing hitch!

Someday, just maybe, all of this will come to a head, for the benefit of all.

Andy
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:01 PM   #266
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I wonder if they know that to use air shocks (inflated), air bags(inflated), overload springs, Monroe "Load levelers", or anything of the like, basically levels the tow vehicle, but transfers little to no weight to the steering axle, AND defeats the purpose of a load equalizing hitch!

Someday, just maybe, all of this will come to a head, for the benefit of all.

Andy
I should have clarified that this was without a WDH. As to coming to a head, the "rules" appear to be about the minimum found necessary for a non-representative trailer (construction, loaded with concrete blocks about 3' high) behind a poor choice of TV, in general. The new J2807 is about consistency, but it still isn't about what may be best as the questions used to determine an answer are deliberate in exclusion.

.
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