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Old 10-15-2011, 12:20 PM   #239
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Has anyone checked into accidents involving travel trailers to see how many had equalizer and or sway control verses those that had one or the other or none at all?
That was done in the early 70's, by Caravanner Insurance and myself.

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Old 10-15-2011, 08:39 PM   #240
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Andy;
What were the results?
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:41 PM   #241
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I have a similar setup to Barts and have towed for some 5000 miles this year without a problem. Knock on wood.
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:33 AM   #242
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Andy;
What were the results?
Search under "Caravanner"
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:05 AM   #243
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"knock knock"

"who's there?"

"sway"

"sway who?

"sway better with than without"



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Old 10-16-2011, 02:12 PM   #244
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in re 'studies' - take care. A report on the results of an informal voluntary questionnaire is not a study. Any information about sway that is more than ten or so years old is also highly questionable due to improvements in vehicles.

The best and most current data is the state annual crash reports or the DOT studies. These can be somewhat difficult to find (and to read) but the outcome can be seen in your insurance bill as the premium reflects risks as defined in the policy. If you find an insurance company offering a discount for specific hitch types, please let me know.
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Old 10-16-2011, 05:11 PM   #245
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in re 'studies' - take care. A report on the results of an informal voluntary questionnaire is not a study. Any information about sway that is more than ten or so years old is also highly questionable due to improvements in vehicles.

The best and most current data is the state annual crash reports or the DOT studies. These can be somewhat difficult to find (and to read) but the outcome can be seen in your insurance bill as the premium reflects risks as defined in the policy. If you find an insurance company offering a discount for specific hitch types, please let me know.
ANY information obtained from a reasonbly reliable source, such as an insurance company, of what caused accidents, should not be taken lightly.

It's always easy to lick to the curb and down grade any tests, especially when that person was not there or doesn't know the "REAL" details.

If well intended information, based on realistic findings, is given out with the intent of promoting SAFETY, then one should perhaps look beyond their own opinions, and look at "what may help someone, ANYONE, from injury or loss of life, either theirs or someone elses.

That should be looked at as a step in the RIGHT direction, regardless of how small that step may be.

Anyone can put anything down, but perhaps they may change their opinion, "IF" they spent their time and money demonstrating as a matter of fact, not an opinion, that something that tested "not good" was indeed incorrect, instead of assuming that "it can't be correct".

Safety, has no limits, and time in itself, cannot change any law of Physics.

A crash hurts, today, last week, last month, last year, last decade, last century, and always will, in spite of opinions.

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Old 10-17-2011, 06:13 AM   #246
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in re 'studies' - take care. A report on the results of an informal voluntary questionnaire is not a study. Any information about sway that is more than ten or so years old is also highly questionable due to improvements in vehicles.

The best and most current data is the state annual crash reports or the DOT studies. These can be somewhat difficult to find (and to read) but the outcome can be seen in your insurance bill as the premium reflects risks as defined in the policy. If you find an insurance company offering a discount for specific hitch types, please let me know.
This would then include SAE papers. Bundorf, 1965; Klein, 1977, etc. From which assumptions (those actually included, not those discarded despite possbile relevancy) for todays "recommendations" are based. Formulaic tweaks based on a desired outcome, NOT the search for what may be best.

.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:44 PM   #247
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Well we made it to FL ok. 400+ miles. I do need some sway control after having put some miles on the trailer. It is pretty stable below 60MPH then it gets a little more touchy. It did not like going through Mongomery, AL where the roads had troughs in them. The truck was in the center and the trailer was on the edges since it was wider. Any deviation out of the trough made it hard to steer. Also hitting the edge of the road where there is a slight drop off made it not happy as well. I am going to try to connect the friction bar up on the way home and see if that helps. My new 235 75-15 XL truck tires did well.

Perry
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:47 PM   #248
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re: "This would then include SAE papers. Bundorf, 1965; Klein, 1977, etc. From which assumptions (those actually included, not those discarded despite possbile relevancy) for todays "recommendations" are based."

where are these "recommendations" and why aren't they reflected in current practice? The only 'recommendations' I have seen on RV forums are personal ones, not any that would have credence of commerce or law behind them.

how does research done 30 and 40 years ago reflect technologies in modern vehicles?

appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. bad science from an authority is still bad science. I noted the flaws I saw in the 'study' cited earlier and I note how the response does not address those points I made but rather resorts to other things. That tells me things, too.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:08 PM   #249
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re: "This would then include SAE papers. Bundorf, 1965; Klein, 1977, etc. From which assumptions (those actually included, not those discarded despite possbile relevancy) for todays "recommendations" are based."

where are these "recommendations" and why aren't they reflected in current practice? The only 'recommendations' I have seen on RV forums are personal ones, not any that would have credence of commerce or law behind them.

how does research done 30 and 40 years ago reflect technologies in modern vehicles?

appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. bad science from an authority is still bad science. I noted the flaws I saw in the 'study' cited earlier and I note how the response does not address those points I made but rather resorts to other things. That tells me things, too.
The basic Reese, Equalizer and EazLift, have not changed since day 1.

Andy
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:17 PM   #250
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re: "This would then include SAE papers. Bundorf, 1965; Klein, 1977, etc. From which assumptions (those actually included, not those discarded despite possbile relevancy) for todays "recommendations" are based."

where are these "recommendations" and why aren't they reflected in current practice? The only 'recommendations' I have seen on RV forums are personal ones, not any that would have credence of commerce or law behind them.

how does research done 30 and 40 years ago reflect technologies in modern vehicles?

appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. bad science from an authority is still bad science. I noted the flaws I saw in the 'study' cited earlier and I note how the response does not address those points I made but rather resorts to other things. That tells me things, too.
Instead of finding "flaws" I would think if several of those that are a part of that group got together, perhaps they could come up with better answers, using their time, efforts and money.

It's all to easy to render an opinion suggesting flaws, than it would be to come up with some kind of program themselves, and let others then pick their findings apart.

I applaude anyone that makes any sincere attempt to better the RV industry, in what ever way possible, small or other wise.

Negativity has no place in trying to advance safety for those that tow travel trailers.

Safety, and lots of it, has plenty of room to grow and advance in many fields, including RV's.

Certainly even a partial answer, is far better than "NO" answer.

Andy
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:21 AM   #251
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It did not like going through Mongomery, AL where the roads had troughs in them. The truck was in the center and the trailer was on the edges since it was wider. Any deviation out of the trough made it hard to steer. Also hitting the edge of the road where there is a slight drop off made it not happy as well.
Perry
The basic physics here is working against you. We recently pulled our Airstream across Donner Pass; we had the same problems w/ ruts and groves. However, while perhaps somewhat unsettling as the truck and trailer hunt for a happy medium, nothing happened other than the truck and trailer both trying to follow the grooves in the road. I long ago had to get used to the motorcycle trying to follow rain grooves, which is a rather unnerving sensation to the uninitiated - but it can be completely ignored. It is going to slither around on you - just get used to it.

I seriously doubt whether a set of spring bars or a friction rig will help this situation - because if the tires can't bring the trailer back behind the truck, neither spring bars or anti-sway will help AFAICT.

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Old 10-18-2011, 04:20 AM   #252
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where are these "recommendations" and why aren't they reflected in current practice?

Uuhh, vehicle and hitch manufacturer WDH instructions.



Appeal to authority isn't a question of fallacy. That would be about the premises to a conclusion. And some conclusions preclude others. Citing authority is a way of delineating an argument. If the "authority" is working from a flawed premise then it might be a question of "fallacy" when one builds upward.

The use of survey from which to build a statistical database is a way of checking a predictive model. One works with what one has (retail customers). If the model can be shown to have accurate prediction, then "science" is served.

SAE papers, statistical surveys, et. al. are a way of covering the lowest common denominator: the problem of yaw-induced oversteer (as the argument is defined). If the vehicle manufacturer requires WDH with a tongue weight of X-amount, then this is what is being referenced. A pickup with Y-amount of payload capacity is not exempt.

It (the common formula, so to speak) does not, however, account for: better TT's, better TV's and better hitch rigging configurations for trailer towing.


I seriously doubt whether a set of spring bars or a friction rig will help this situation - because if the tires can't bring the trailer back behind the truck, neither spring bars or anti-sway will help AFAICT.


Your assumption would be incorrect if the hitch is at least a Dual Cam. It would take less effort, perhaps no effort, on the part of the driver to keep the trailer in line. Other, better, hitches make it moot. Tire slip is always worth ones attention (correct Load Range, inflated to maximum sidewall air pressure; for best performance).

The full range of options to maximize the performance envelope is worthwhile, would be the point.

.
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