Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-12-2009, 12:40 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Wrong.

If what you say is the case, what good are the torsion bars?

Trucks are not immune from Physics.

Andy
No, trucks are NOT immune to physics. The torsion bars move to tongue weight foward as you tighten them. In theory, you can even move all the tongue weight to the front axle...remember the old hitch add that had a front wheel drive toronado towing an Airstream and had no wheels on the back???

What you should do with a truck towing a travel trailer is, tighten the bars until you move the tongue weight off the rear bumper, moving it foward enough to transfer it to the rear axle, and no farther foward.

Simple, huh?
__________________

__________________
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 12:43 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
silverleeper's Avatar
 
1967 22' Safari
1960 Caravel
Edmonds , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,499
Images: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Weight-Distributing Hitches and Weight Carrying Hitches:

"When using a weight-distributing hitch, the hitch must be adjusted so the distance (front wheel fender opening to ground) remains the same both before and after coupling the trailer to the tow vehicle."

This clearly indicates the manufacturer does not want added tongue weight to be applied to the front axle of the truck, and coincides with instructions illustrated elsewhere in the owners manual about the loading of the truck needing to be directly above the rear axle.

This has been discussed several times before, and trucks are built to carry loads differently than passenger vehicles.
Andy, As you have stated in the past one rule does not apply for every W/D setup. SteveH is simply stating what his manual says. This works for SteveH and in his point of view is not "wrong".

Without W/D bars he can not make sure the "distance (front wheel fender opening to ground) remains the same both before and after coupling the trailer to the tow vehicle."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Wrong.

If what you say is the case, what good are the torsion bars?

Trucks are not immune from Physics.

Andy
__________________

__________________
Lee

1973 F-250 4X4 390
1965 Chevy Suburban 454
AIR 6030
WBCCI 4258
TCT

silverleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 12:51 PM   #17
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
What you should do with a truck towing a travel trailer is, tighten the bars until you move the tongue weight off the rear bumper, moving it foward enough to transfer it to the rear axle, and no farther foward.

Simple, huh?
If you lift the weight off the rear bumper, it must go someplace.

As you lift the rear bumper, you are taking weight off of the rear axle.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 01:32 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
richinny's Avatar
 
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY , / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
thank you steveh.

yes, not much reserve there.

my novice thoughts are:

use the WD hitch to replace the weight taken off the front when the trailer tongue is loaded onto the ball without overloading the front axle.

or

even better.......... get the tow veh. to squat evenly. again, do this without overloading either axle. this evens out the load and keeps the front alignment angles from changing.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
richinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 02:05 PM   #19
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
everytime this thread heading rolls by...

i see "disturbing hitch" as the title message.

and some of the replies have headed that direction...

moose, markd' and rc' have condensed nicely.

while steveH is solving HIS issues too...

but the o.p. hasn't responded.

and MY guess is the question has an ISSUE behind it that goes beyond ALL but moose's reply....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
Will a distributing hitch take away some tonge weight or does it just level everything?
hi todd !

1. w/d doesn't LEVEL everything...

((the draw bar DROP is largely responsible for leveling the trailer))

2. and the w/d hitch doesn't TAKE AWAY some tongue weight...

((it redistributes the EFFECTs of that tongue mass along the the tv frame and trailer frame, INTO the ground contact))

and generally the goal with w/d gear is 2 RESTORE the steering axle load 2 the UNhitched value, approximately.

but TENSIONING the w/d bars generates FORCES (at the hitch/ball/A frame) way beyond the actual tongue weight.

and there are LONG threads that pick apart this concept in great detail.
______________

but WHY exactly are U asking about WHAT a w/d hitch does to the tongue mass?

?is it because YOUR rebuild is headed toward a HEAVIER tongue...

perhaps heavier than originally spec'd or heavier than the tv is meant to carry?

or something along this line?
___________

w/d bars and hitches DO NOT lighten the tongue mass.

they don't make tongue weight disappear or CHANGE the ratings of the A frame, or other connected bits.

and they don't reduce the payload added by the trailer tongue 2 the towing vehicle,

while shifting around the EFFECT of that payload on the STEERING and DRIVE axles of the tv.

the tongue will weigh WHATEVER it weighs when ON the tongue jack LEVEL and un hitched.

with SOME regular variation based on LP tank levels, water in the trailer tanks, cargo and so on.

and the HITCH APPARATUS will add to that figure (or more correctly ADD payload on the TV)
_________

so perhaps U might share WHY this issue is important now

and HOW understanding the answer will impact your rebuild, or towing issues.

this might get you better info that APPLIES to your DISTURBING situation...
__________

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 02:11 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
If you lift the weight off the rear bumper, it must go someplace.

As you lift the rear bumper, you are taking weight off of the rear axle.

Andy
Actually, that is not right, or as you would say, WRONG.

You need to understand physics yourself. You need to think of the tow vehicle as a lever, and the rear axle as the fulcrum, and the tongue weight, as the weight. The weight lowers the bumper, using the rear axle as the fulcrum to raise the front, or take weight off the front axle.

As you tighten the weight distribution bars you move that tongue weight foward on the tow vehicle, and a small amount of the tongue weight goes back on the trailer, but for the sake of this discussion, lets just concentrate on the TV.. The tighter you make the bars, the farther you move the weight foward.

If you simply return the front of the TV to it's original height before hitching the trailer, you have then moved the tongue weight directly above the rear axle. If you move the weight far enough foward, the front of the TV will go down, and then you have put at least some of the tongue weight on the front axle, which is not desirable on a truck.

I'm sure if you have all of the "experience" you profess to, you've seen TV and trailer conbinations where the tow vehicle is too high in the rear, and too low in the front, which is a simple situation of having the WD bars too tight.

Too tight bars is also dangerous, as it removes traction from the rear axle of the TV which without sway control, can actually cause a jack-knife.

I will say this from experience....if you are having traction problems when accelerating with your rig, and having a tendency to spin the rear tires, you have the WD bars too tight, and the tongue weight moved too far foward, no matter what tow vehicle you are driving.
__________________
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2009, 05:37 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny View Post
thank you steveh.

yes, not much reserve there.

my novice thoughts are:

use the WD hitch to replace the weight taken off the front when the trailer tongue is loaded onto the ball without overloading the front axle.

or

even better.......... get the tow veh. to squat evenly. again, do this without overloading either axle. this evens out the load and keeps the front alignment angles from changing.
Ricky,

Sorry I did not respond to your post sooner....as long as I have not exceeded my truck's axle weight limits, I feel safe with the rig, as I know the manufacturers use a safety margin in their calculations. I feel that is better than mal-adjusting the WD bars in an effort to make the load more even.

Additionally, I believe the main limits to the weight ratings on the rear axle of pickup trucks, 1/2 ton anyway, is the tires, and I am due for tire replacements and plan to go to XL (extra load) tires when I replace them. I would go to LT tires for even more weight capacity, but they are not built for my 20" wheels.

And, about the equal loading and front-end alignment angles....any time you increase the load on the front of an indepent suspension vehicle, you stand a chance of changing the camber angles, and the toe-in angles. This is much less desirable IMHO than changing just the ride angle by lowering the back with a load, as that only changes the efective caster angle.
__________________
SteveH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2009, 02:47 PM   #22
3 Rivet Member
 
1963tradewin's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
, , Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 225
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
everytime this thread heading rolls by...

i see "disturbing hitch" as the title message.

and some of the replies have headed that direction...

moose, markd' and rc' have condensed nicely.

while steveH is solving HIS issues too...

but the o.p. hasn't responded.

and MY guess is the question has an ISSUE behind it that goes beyond ALL but moose's reply....



hi todd !

1. w/d doesn't LEVEL everything...

((the draw bar DROP is largely responsible for leveling the trailer))

2. and the w/d hitch doesn't TAKE AWAY some tongue weight...

((it redistributes the EFFECTs of that tongue mass along the the tv frame and trailer frame, INTO the ground contact))

and generally the goal with w/d gear is 2 RESTORE the steering axle load 2 the UNhitched value, approximately.

but TENSIONING the w/d bars generates FORCES (at the hitch/ball/A frame) way beyond the actual tongue weight.

and there are LONG threads that pick apart this concept in great detail.
______________

but WHY exactly are U asking about WHAT a w/d hitch does to the tongue mass?

?is it because YOUR rebuild is headed toward a HEAVIER tongue...

perhaps heavier than originally spec'd or heavier than the tv is meant to carry?

or something along this line?
___________

w/d bars and hitches DO NOT lighten the tongue mass.

they don't make tongue weight disappear or CHANGE the ratings of the A frame, or other connected bits.

and they don't reduce the payload added by the trailer tongue 2 the towing vehicle,

while shifting around the EFFECT of that payload on the STEERING and DRIVE axles of the tv.

the tongue will weigh WHATEVER it weighs when ON the tongue jack LEVEL and un hitched.

with SOME regular variation based on LP tank levels, water in the trailer tanks, cargo and so on.

and the HITCH APPARATUS will add to that figure (or more correctly ADD payload on the TV)
_________

so perhaps U might share WHY this issue is important now

and HOW understanding the answer will impact your rebuild, or towing issues.

this might get you better info that APPLIES to your DISTURBING situation...
__________

cheers
2air'
The reason I asked is because my truck sags when I hook up and slightly sways going down the highway. Also I will have more tonge weight approx 100-200lbs more. I read that my trailer came with a 415 tonge weight. My receiver in rated to 500 and don't want it to rip off of the truck. Now assuming I have a 650 lb tonge weight, with a 100 lbs of gear in the back of tv should I go with a 750lb distributing hitch or bigger, I ask because I read that you want to be as close to the actual weight of the hitch as possible. I'm really confused now with all these posts Thanks for the help you guys.
__________________
Psalm 67:7
1963tradewin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2009, 02:54 PM   #23
3 Rivet Member
 
1963tradewin's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
, , Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 225
Images: 5
change 650 to 550 on assuming the tonge sorry about confusion lol
__________________
Psalm 67:7
1963tradewin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2009, 03:08 PM   #24
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
...My receiver in rated to 500 and don't want it to rip off of the truck...
IF the receiver is only rated to 500 lbs U got trouble...

BUMPER ball mounts typically carry this rating, as do class 3 receivers.

but a frame BOLTED or welded receiver from class 4/5 carries a much HIGHER rating with w/d gear...

Click image for larger version

Name:	valley_receiver_chart.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	151.7 KB
ID:	91138

and MOST of us towing 'streams need class 4 or 5 as noted in the chart above.
_____________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
...The reason I asked is because my truck sags when I hook up and slightly sways going down the highway...

it might be useful to share more info about the truck here too.

better help flows when better INFO is available.
_____________

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
...I read that my trailer came with a 415 tonge weight...
while your trailer may have ORIGINALLY had a tongue mass of ~415 lbs...

35+ years later and MODIFIED === WEIGH IT, to know 4sure.

since TOO little tongue mass leads to stability issues while towing...

and TOO much may stress the A frame and body/frame junction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
...I'm really confused now with all these posts...
well THAT's why we R here...to confuse U.

it might be useful to spend a little time on ANY of the "towing and rv basics" sites or

download a towing HOW2 from many of the vendors for these products...

along with the makers and INSTALLERS of this gear, trailer life has a nice one as does FORD...

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2009, 11:53 AM   #25
3 Rivet Member
 
1963tradewin's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
, , Minnesota
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 225
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
_____________



it might be useful to share more info about the truck here too.

better help flows when better INFO is available.
_____________



Truck is a half ton Ford Expedition 5.4 with the tow package
__________________
Psalm 67:7
1963tradewin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2009, 11:58 AM   #26
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
...Truck is a half ton Ford Expedition 5.4 with the tow package
so the oem receiver SHOULD be class 4 per the table linked above.

should be a sticker ON the receiver with the details AND a section in the owners manual.

don't use the BUMPER HOLE with a ball mount for towing a stream.

cheers
2air'

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963tradewin View Post
Check out this notification I received on here today...
REPORT this to the mod team.

there are a couple of threads for reporting nonsense like this,

but the forum fuzz are NOT likely 2 see it buried in a hitch/towing thread.
__________________

__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
weight distributing hitch classic4x4s Hitches, Couplers & Balls 7 08-02-2006 12:29 PM
New single-arm weight distributing hitch bfk Hitches, Couplers & Balls 18 07-30-2006 10:45 PM
Weight distributing hitch choices Safari64 Hitches, Couplers & Balls 18 02-23-2006 12:12 PM
Blue Ox Weight Distributing Hitch Bill Price; Hitches, Couplers & Balls 5 02-29-2004 12:18 AM
Weight Distributing Hitch joshua32064 Hitches, Couplers & Balls 1 09-27-2003 08:16 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.