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Old 01-09-2011, 08:07 AM   #15
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Smile Correct Towing Package?

Thanks for the input. I did talk with Equalizer many times and they still maintain I am safe with the 1000 lb bars. They did discuss how many washers were used in the installation as this can influence how much stress is put on the trailer and tow vehicle. My dealer only needed two washers to level the trailer and tow vehicle as the tongue load is relatively light for my Yukon hybrid.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:58 PM   #16
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Equal-I-Zer is good with phone assistance but I wonder about the advice they are putting out. No hitch expert here, but I understand the washers control the amount of tilt on the hitch head, and the head should be tilted downward when set up and ready to go.

This downward tilt causes increased tension on the bars when the trailer turns to one side or the other. The downward head tilt resists sway because it becomes progressively harder for the trailer to move sideways against the increasing bar tension, and the friction is also increased. If the head is mounted level, this feature is lost, and if tilted up, it works in reverse.

So are they suggesting the number of washers is used to level the trailer and tow vehicle? I believe the bar tension levels (restores steering axle weight) the tow vehicle and the height of the hitch levels the trailer.

Equal-I-zer suggested that when in doubt I should get the next higher rated hitch. That is true if only weight distribution is desired. But I am concerned about the stress these very stiff w.d. bars put on the trailer A-frame when the truck encounters a steep incline as well as the stress placed on the front where the trailer body is connected to the frame. For that reason I would not want a higher rated w.d. bar than I need. Even then I do not like the stiffness of the Equal-I-Zer bars.

Doug
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:43 PM   #17
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It would make sense that you get a set of bars that properly matches the tounge load of your trailer. If the bars are underrated for your tounge load then they are flexed at max capacity and have no more "travel" to absorb changes to height, etc. let alone properly disrbute the weight onto the tow vehicles suspension.

That's what's nice about the P3 and his older brother - you crank in the support of the bars till your level "dialing in the support as provdied by the bars as necessary".

The trailer has it's own suspension with articulation and travel, that's what its there for as designed by Airstream - the tow vehicle suspension is for its own use.

As an Airstream engineer told me during my tour who was on the floor last summer - the Tow Vehicle should be rock solid and any suspension that it may have is for the comfort of the occupants and its contents, the Airstream has its own suspension for its contents and does not care how much or little the Tow Vehicle is bouncing down the road.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
But I am concerned about the stress these very stiff w.d. bars put on the trailer A-frame when the truck encounters a steep incline as well as the stress placed on the front where the trailer body is connected to the frame.bars.
Doug

I understand my "Classic" frame is a little beefier than the International & Safari frames - but looking at how stout that metal is right there at the "A" where my hitch is installed....

I have to ask my fellow Airstreamers - do you really think that the "A-Frame" of the trailer can be flexed by the Tow Vehicle without damage to the ball-hitch coupler first occuring let alone some sort of "deformation" of the metal at the contact points between the hitch and the Airstreams frame when going over bumps and across ditches?

Just asking....
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:06 PM   #19
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John, that is probably true (although I wonder if that Airstream engineer has ever seen his Airstream porpoising at the hitch on some concrete highways) but I have seen bent A frames, damaged lower front panels, and broken W.D. bar attachments. The engineer's comment is not entirely reassuring.

Doug
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:33 PM   #20
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See - this is my education time here and now as I would have never imaged a bent A frame as that metal is so dam thick. Running "on the envelope" calculations (the engineer in me) I'm amazed that bolts, clamps, impressions on trailer frame rails, etc. wouldn't be present before an A-Frame would be bent. It would take a hell of alot of weight to bend that A-Frame - I would assume damage should also be present on the vehicles tow hitch mounts or frame as well...

I have an easy way out - quick call to Sean over at ProPride - tell him my tow vehicle and tounge weight - he knows the design of his system and tells me what I need. Another good P3 benifit as support is almost as important as the product itself.

Sounds like the issue of this thread actually should be confidence in the information other hitch companies support staff are dishing out - again - I would think these folks would be the "subject matter expert" at answering a "Tow Vehicle \ Trailer" configuratoin when using their hitch systems.

Of course - I also know we will all debate this till the cows come home - but isn't that part of the fun?
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFScheck View Post
See - this is my education time here and now as I would have never imaged a bent A frame as that metal is so dam thick. Running "on the envelope" calculations (the engineer in me) I'm amazed that bolts, clamps, impressions on trailer frame rails, etc. wouldn't be present before an A-Frame would be bent. It would take a hell of alot of weight to bend that A-Frame - I would assume damage should also be present on the vehicles tow hitch mounts or frame as well...

I have an easy way out - quick call to Sean over at ProPride - tell him my tow vehicle and tounge weight - he knows the design of his system and tells me what I need. Another good P3 benifit as support is almost as important as the product itself.

Sounds like the issue of this thread actually should be confidence in the information other hitch companies support staff are dishing out - again - I would think these folks would be the "subject matter expert" at answering a "Tow Vehicle \ Trailer" configuratoin when using their hitch systems.

Of course - I also know we will all debate this till the cows come home - but isn't that part of the fun?
A-frames can easily be bent.

Just pound it enough times and watch what happens. That's exactly what happens when the bars have an excessive rating.

Andy

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Old 01-09-2011, 06:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFScheck View Post
See - this is my education time here and now as I would have never imaged a bent A frame as that metal is so dam thick...
actually it's not very 'thick' and the dimensions of the boxed beam are marginally adequate...

and a/s has incrementally REDUCED the bits connecting frame2shell (not a good thing)

so YES the A frame/tongue flexes.

and on heavier units this FLEX happens without towing, or without stress on the w/d bars.

this is easy to observe and can even be measured at home without special tools.

if ya wanna read a bit about this topic start here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ion-35237.html

or here, another specially useful thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396...ers-57860.html
_________

the issue of how ALL of this hitch biz relates to trailer problems is complex...

and there are useful posts and useful links in the 2 threads noted above.
_________

now back to the op...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rperrym View Post
...The dealer in Alabama installed an Equalizer hitch with 1000 lb. bars.

We towed it home, (about 300 miles), and thought it towed very well.

But after reading so many threads... I am wondering if we are over hitched.

Do I need to go to lighter bars?...
this happens daily here and it's iNtentional...

folks with properly set up rigs that ride fine and tow well READ some of the nonsense...

because it ECHOS over and over and over.

then the inevitable happens, they start thinking perhaps they are OVER connected...

it's like reading about shark bites off the great barrier reef and having anxiety about taking a bath.
_______

thankfully many folks get past this anxiety stage without tossing OUT their hitches, or taking apart the truck suspensions...

and without buying a 70s caprice for towing that new 30 footer.
_______

what the op still needs to do (or perhaps just report) is...

WEIGHing the rig and adjusting the w/d bars properly...

restoring the front axle load is the starting point,

while adjusting the hitch according to the instruction FROM the manufacturer.

get the trailer level and the axles properly loaded using normal towing bits.

the majority of folks don't wanna debate the many details of sway control vs weight distribution...

or endlessly worry that properly sized/installed/adjusted gear (tv and hitch) is damaging their trailers...


cheers
2air'
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:13 PM   #23
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Scale tickets with separate axle weights (plus the tongue weight) will give the info needed to give proper context for any and all changes (if needed). There is no substitute.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:35 PM   #24
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Better tell Eqaul-I-Zer there is no substitute for scale tickets. They don't mention weighing as part of their set up procedure.

Doug
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:20 PM   #25
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Opinions as to what load equalizing bars do, or don't do, is strickly an opinion without any data to support that opinion.

How stiff torsion bars may be, is a simple matter of testing their bend, which we recently completed, on three different brands.

The data will be published very soon.

Andy
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Better tell Eqaul-I-Zer there is no substitute for scale tickets. They don't mention weighing as part of their set up procedure.

Doug
Doug,

You might want to visit the EquaL-i-zer web site at:
Equal-i-zerŪ Hitch - Product Info - Specifications

Equal-i-zer hitches are rated for both "Maximum Tongue Weight" and "Maximum Trailer Weight"

Note: There is no need to discuss tongue weight or trailer weight in the instructions since it is assumed that you have already purchased the correct product.

Please note the use of the word "Maximum" in the specifications. Equal-i-zer probably assumes the you will understand this to mean a fully loaded trailer. Maybe Equal-i-zer failed to understand that assume means "Make an Ass out of U and Me."
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:24 PM   #27
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Okay PJ' we visited the Eqaul-I-Zer website when we bought the hitch.

THEN we went to the instructions to set it up. No mention of weighing the combo to set up the hitch for towing. The procedure is to use ruler measurements.

My response was to the previous post, "no substitute for scale tickets" to set up, not select the hitch. I don't doubt the value of scale tickets, but stating it is not in the instructions for this particular hitch.

Doug
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Okay PJ' we visited the Eqaul-I-Zer website when we bought the hitch.

THEN we went to the instructions to set it up. No mention of weighing the combo to set up the hitch for towing. The procedure is to use ruler measurements.

My response was to the previous post, "no substitute for scale tickets" to set up, not select the hitch. I don't doubt the value of scale tickets, but stating it is not in the instructions for this particular hitch.

Doug
Doug,

I apologize. I misinterpreted your remarks and thought you were disparaging scale weights.
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