Considering a move from Equalizer -> ProPride

[wulfraat]

After ~30,000 miles of towing my 25' and now 30' I am considering changing my equalizer (1,000 lb bars) in favor of a ProPride (1,400 lb bars) for my current 2017 30' international / 2017 GMC 2500 combo with ready for camping CAT-scale-measured tongue weight (payload reduction) of 980lbs when latched to the TV with correctly applied WD.



I completely understand how both hitches function and the pros / cons of each, so this is not about which is "better" from a sway prevention perspective. My specific question relates to WD bars and the amount of energy / vibration transferred from 3/4 ton TV to Trailer when bouncing down the road.



Specifically: for those of you that have made this specific migration (EQ w/1,000lb bars to a ProPride w/1,400lb bars and 3/4 ton TV) - Have you observed if the tapered 1,400 lb ProPride WD bars are 'easier' / 'less harsh' on the trailer than the square 1,000lb EQ WD bars?



I have not popped too many rivets over the years with my EQ, but stuff inside the trailer does get tossed around a little more than I'd like when traveling, and I attribute the to the 'less flexible' square 1,000lb EQ WD bars transferring energy to the trailer frame. I also kinda cringe when going through dips and typically reduce speed to try and reduce the stress / torque on the AS frame and TV hitch receiver.



Bottom line I am trying to determine if of the PP will be easier on the trailer and transfer less vibration / energy as compared to the EQ, while providing an equal amount amount of WD weight transfer of course.



Have not called Sean at PP yet, thought I'd start here first.



Thanks Air Forums!



PS - I am thinking 1,400 lb PP WD bars are the correct setup for my 30' w/ 980 lbs of TW based on a couple hours of searing through Airforums and observing what others with this Tongue weight have ordered. Plan to speak with Sean to confirm but I'm pretty sure that is what he would recommend based on the guidance he has provided to others on this forum.



PPS - in the spring I plan to move to Lithiums which will eliminate about 100lbs of tongue weight by re-locating batteries inside the trailer under the rear bed. So "end state" Tongue Weight will likely me more in the ~850lb range perhaps (10% of GVRW for 30' International).

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

After ~30,000 miles of towing my 25' and now 30' I am considering changing my equalizer (1,000 lb bars) in favor of a ProPride (1,400 lb bars) for my current 2017 30' international / 2017 GMC 2500 combo with ready for camping CAT-scale-measured tongue weight (payload reduction) of 980lbs when latched to the TV with correctly WD applied.

I completely understand how both hitches function and the pros / cons of each, so this is not about which is "better" from a sway prevention perspective. My specific question relates to WD bars and the amount of energy / vibration transferred from 3/4 ton TV to Trailer when bouncing down the road.

Specifically: for those of you that have made this specific migration (EQ w/1,000lb bars to a ProPride w/1,400lb bars and 3/4 ton TV) - Have you observed if the tapered 1,400 lb ProPride WD bars are 'easier' / 'less harsh' on the trailer than the square 1,000lb EQ WD bars?

I have not popped too many rivets over the years with my EQ, but stuff inside the trailer does get tossed around a little more than I'd like when traveling, and I attribute the to the 'less flexible' square 1,000lb EQ WD bars transferring energy to the trailer frame. I also kinda cringe when going through dips and typically reduce speed to try and reduce the stress / torque on the AS frame and TV hitch receiver.

Bottom line I am trying to determine if of the PP will be easier on the trailer and transfer less vibration / energy as compared to the EQ, while providing an equal amount amount of WD weight transfer of course.

Have not called Sean at PP yet, thought I'd start here first.

Thanks Air Forums!

PS - I am thinking 1,400 lb PP WD bars are the correct setup for my 30' w/ 980 lbs of TW based on a couple hours of searing through Airforums and observing what others with this Tongue weight have ordered. Plan to speak with Sean to confirm but I'm pretty sure that is what he would recommend based on the guidance he has provided to others on this forum.

PPS - in the spring I plan to move to Lithiums which will eliminate about 100lbs of tongue weight by re-locating batteries inside the trailer under the rear bed. So "end state" Tongue Weight will likely me more in the ~850lb range perhaps (10% of GVRW for 30' International).

Well, I have close experience. Started out with EQ w/1000K bars and towed with a variety of GM 1500 (PU and SUV) as well as 2500 PUs. It certainly transferred enough weight, but was just way too stiff.

Then went to a Reese Straight line with 800# bars and that worked great (still my back-up system)....until I found a used Hensley with 1000# bars. That is perfection with 1500 and 2500 GMs.

Now to your question. I do not understand (and this would be a question for Sean, as he seems to always recommend 1400# bars) why 1400 is necessary. In my discussions with Sean and Hensley, I learned that neither produces their own bars. They are procured from a handful of spring bar manufacturers who supply to the brand name hitches.

I like the flexibility of the 1000# bars and have no trouble moving all the weight I need from the rear axle.

I would ask Sean if the PP bars are from the same mfr. as Hensley, and if they are, why does he recommend 1400#ers.

[Al and Missy]

I went from an Equalizer with 1200# bars to a ProPride with 1400# bars (as recommended by Sean) to tow my 2002 Classic 30 Slideout (9100# GVWR). I'm still tuning the setup and will be changing axles in December as the existing axles have very little movement in either the up or down direction. I haven't noticed any difference in the shifting of objects in the trailer. On the initial delivery trip last year and subsequently on other trips I had several drawers pop out while using the Equalizer. The behavior continued when I changed to the Propride. I attribute the rough ride more to the shot axles than the hitch.

The Propride is completely smooth when passing semis on two lane roads or when passed on four lane roads. The Equalizer had a slight but noticeable twitch to the left when a passing semi got to the back of the truck. That was about what I experienced without the trailer attached.

I got the ProPride for ease of hitching/unhitching and the ability to leave the stinger with the trailer, not for sway performance.

Al

[dznf0g]

BTW, for your weight comparison:

If I have ALL my gear and toys loaded (truck is 289 over payload capacity)

2323# = load in truck
rr axle = 4218
Frt axle = 3645
AS TW = 964
WD moved to Frt axle = 389
WD moved to trailer axles = 143

Now, I rarely travel that heavy and the 1000# bars are pretty maxed out at those weights...on my 1500 Silverado MaxTow.

This is a more common scenario

1960# = load in truck
rr axle = 3986
frt axle = 3515
AS TW = 978
WD moved to Frt axle = 389
WD moved to trailer axles = 143

Note: WD movement is the same as I use the measurement of fenders and 50% return height to fronts (with loaded truck, but not hitched as the benchmark). I then hitch up and apply WD to my "marks" on the jacks. Minor adjustments made on the fly to fine tune to my butt feel.

[Moflash]

I use a Airsafe Hitch with a Equalizer with our F350.Trailer rides smooth and independent of the truck.
I have pulled with this combination over 60,000 miles

[slowmover]

The "problem" with a WDH for LWB one-ton series trucks is leverage against a long and stiff vehicle. It's also where an OEM hitch receiver will show any design flaws.

And, as a VPP doesn't need bar tension to achieve acceptable anti-sway, it's a minor dilemma as cranking down on the bars could make life more tough for the TT (due to the TV suspension) without a commensurate benefit (in some cases).

All the factors work well together when the TV bed has a load that brings it nearer to RAWR. Not much otherwise. This problem is a flashing indicator light. Let the scale tell the story, and with that truck type, FALR isn't so much a concern where the truck bed (payload) is light.

Where's your TARE plus three-pass set of scale tickets in the current configuration? If that's not available, start with the TARE weighing. And get the TV tire pressure for solo/empty tested and set.

FWIW, I'd much rather have TW that was heavy than light. 10% on a tridem 34' is different than on a tandem. 15% is "high", but it's "good" except for the hitch lash-up problem for some vehicles.

I've difficulty seeing any advantage at all to a low TW. 980-lbs isn't even 400-lbs per TV axle. There's no reason for the TT to "fight" the VPP hitch linkage due to an artificially low TW.

As to what set of bars? I'd go with what Sean recommended. And do my own tests. If I chose to buy another set of bars I wouldn't consider it a burden.

I'd be sure to use a level across the doorway to gauge TT is riding level. And have the truckstop Scalemaster help me in doing an axle split (a procedure some aren't familiar with; go inside first to discuss at fuel desk). Remember that in braking that the TT front axle loads heavier than the rear.

You've probably seen me say that it's cliche where a one ton pulling an AS on the front axle is the norm. I'm really not kidding. There's no point at all in having a one ton series pickup due to all these problems where the payload doesn't justify the change from a half ton, it makes the usual bad lash-ups worse. This is the thing to zero in upon. A problem has been created, not ameliorated.

TT tires/wheels ought to be balanced on a Hunter GSP-9700 and Centramatic Balancers installed. This will make a noticeable difference for the TT interior items.

Better-than-OEM TV shock absorbers needed. A couple of steps up on the Bilstein range. Supple, is the thing.

Finally, TV tire pressure per actual Load once loaded for camping; and for towing. Not guesstimated, and not overinflated. 5-psi above the tested minimum is, IMO, where to leave them for hitch observations.

I have two tire pressure settings for my pickup as it's not ever empty. It's the work of a few minutes with a quality 120V compressor to change. And, as I have ten tires on both vehicles with which to concern myself, it was also an easy purchase.

We don't tune a truck suspension with tire pressure. But, along with bad lash-up, too much air pressure in the one ton series is endemic. There is some road shock transmission via the TV to the TT.

1) So reduce the TT problems of tire quality, pressure and wheel/tire balance first.

2) Scale TARE and test for minimum solo/empty tire pressure on the pickup. Consider the upgrade to better shocks.

3) With the new hitch, run the Three Pass Method after having been painstaking about trailer level & equalizing axle loads with several end results. (Set and test TV tire pressure again based on the loaded/solo weights)

50% FALR. How does it drive?

100% FALR. Same. (But with a VPP, even the tilt head PP, you might not make it this far up; just record the % and test drive).

The farther the truck is from RAWR, the worse result CAN be very much in the way of higher FAL. A VPP changes what can be done, and whether it matters.

Focus on a great baseline.

.

[wulfraat]

Thanks all - appreciate the feedback thus far. Keep it coming... there is no substitute for real world experience

Slowmover - agree that I don't need to transfer a ton of weight forward with a 3/4 ton truck (perhaps any, technically, with a VPP hitch and massive rear axle GWR).... With my current rig I do however like to restore about 200lbs (about 50%) to the front axle - this seems to be the sweet spot for the GMC 2500 diesel, fully loaded with trailer latched as without any WD it squats in the rear a little too much for my liking. On the ball, I'm not exceeding the rear axle GWR, but I like to strive for a level, more balanced TV ride when I look at front vs. rear axle weights an vehicle pitch.

Zero WD wound't be an issue with a 3500 truck as they have an additional leaf spring and wound't squat as much, but I've found that the 2500 needs just a little torque on the receiver to drive some weight forward for a happy balance (a level ride with ~4500lbs on the front axle, ~5500lbs rear axle), with this slight weight bias to the rear axle when fully loaded and hitched up.

I have my CAT numbers floating around somewhere, but I've found after ~3,000 miles of towing with this setup, various CAT scale passes, that putting 200 lbs back on the front axle when fully loaded was the sweet spot for my particular configuration.

That's been my experience anyway. The VPP hitch is very appealing from a sway (really TV yaw) elimination perspective..

[JVfromGrnBay]

wulfraat- I have no experience with any other hitch than the PP, so I cannot offer much wisdom on comparisons. However, I can share that over the past 2 years, we have been travelling full time with a 30' Classic and Silverado 3500. Over all of our travels, I never once experienced any sway, and always felt the weight was evenly distributed throughout the rig. I have often commented that I need to check the mirrors to confirm that the trailer is still following us!
We have now decided to settle back into a brick and mortar in Oregon, and sadly have our Classic listed for sale on consignment. Upon delivery to the dealer, they asked that we remove the PP hitch, as they would not include in their sale. Thus, I have a 2 year old PP hitch that I will be selling if you are interested. As noted, it was set up for our Classic, and has a 2-1/4" stinger for the receiver on our 1-ton Silverado. I am sure that Sean could help in swapping out any parts required to match your set-up, so please feel free to PM me if your are interested in the hitch.

[Rgentum]

If you are looking for something to greatly reduce the vertical pitching/jarring, for example, when going over bumps, I commend an AirSafe hitch. I added one to my Blue Ox hitch, and that addition eliminated popped rivets & stuff in the trailer falling on the floor.

[16595]

AirSafe would be cheaper.

I looked for a used one and they are scarce, indicating that there are very few unhappy owners.

My research shows many happy owners, such as the prior post Rgentum.

[Catfish72]

for what it is worth I just drove from New Jersey to Texas pulling a 27FB International behind GMC 2500hd duramax. Forgot it was there! Also, experienced significant cold front with high winds into 30s on the beam. Handled like a dream. No movement. 1400# PP3...... and a newbie at this. Best investment to travel safe and protect trailer and family.

[wulfraat]

Thanks catfish. I know most folks with the ProPride are happy owners. $$ is not an issue - I think I’ll make the move in the spring, I like the design of the VPP hitch.

[Adiredneck]

The Pro Pride is reputedly a good hitch (I don't have one, so can't say). But, just a thought to submit for your consideration. My first TV was a Dodge 2500 and then a Ram 3500. Both great TVs, but a little rough on the Airstream. I was towing with just an Equal-i-zer WD/AS hitch. After a rough stretch of road, we'd find drawers opened and pillows on floor, etc. I have no idea about the interior rivets, inasmuch as our Classic's interior is covered with mousehair and vinyl. But, clearly, the Airstream was having a rough ride. My solution was to add a Class VI AirSafe hitch, with the Equal-i-zer added to its backside. This adds 12" or so to the distance from receiver to ball, but I've towed 20,000 miles with that combo and it has worked flawlessly. Going to a Pro Pride, with its already long shank and configuration would preclude using the AirSafe, so I'd be back to beating up my truck and trailer again. That might be a point to consider. If you've had no sway issues and if the WD is working correctly on your Equal-i-zer, and you wish to help protect the rather hefty investment you have in TV and TT, you might want to keep your current hitch and consider adding an AirSafe. Just my $0.02 worth...

[Rgentum]

"But, clearly, the Airstream was having a rough ride. My solution was to add a Class VI AirSafe hitch, with the Equal-i-zer added to its backside. This adds 12" or so to the distance from receiver to ball, but I've towed 20,000 miles with that combo and it has worked flawlessly."
________________________________

That has been my experience.

AirSafe occasionally has 10% discounts, making the Class VI around $1,000 --- some $1,500 less than a ProPride.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Rgentum

"But, clearly, the Airstream was having a rough ride. My solution was to add a Class VI AirSafe hitch, with the Equal-i-zer added to its backside. This adds 12" or so to the distance from receiver to ball, but I've towed 20,000 miles with that combo and it has worked flawlessly."
________________________________

That has been my experience.

AirSafe occasionally has 10% discounts, making the Class VI around $1,000 --- some $1,500 less than a ProPride.

Are you using an Equalizer with the AirSafe?

[Moflash]

I use a Equilizer and a Airsafe.

[Mollysdad]

My unscientific opinion is that most jarring of the trailer's contents come from the trailer axles and not the truck.
The Airsafe hitch does not absorb horizontal forces like braking and acceleration. I'm sure it does a good job on the vertical axis, but how much of a factor is that?
On my last trip, I thought the ride was really good except for some road work and uneven pavement on bridge approaches. When I got home most of the coat hangers with clothes were on the bottom of the closet and the decorator pillows were all on the floor. No cabinets opened or spilled. I think the solution is to slow down. (within reason)

[Moflash]

Actually that is the idea the trailer bounces along on its own independently rather than bound solid by the WD hitch’s wheel barrow effect.Much better ride in the tv with zero jerk back.Trailer rides smooth.
I pulled without a Airsafe for 15,000 + miles and 50,000 plus with it.

I can tell you it makes a big difference in the towing experience.To me that is a big factor.

[wulfraat]

Thanks all for the advice and guidance.

Not interested in the Airsafe setup. Although it is a good concept that no doubt works to smooth out the ride, it still relies on a traditional friction-based sway deterrent WD hitch and /or friction sway bar. My main motivation for moving to the ProPride is that it is a VPP system.

I've done some more homework and based on the fact that the PP3 hitch has tapered WD bars it should be slightly more gentle on the AS vs. the square EQ WD bars. (round + tapered WD bars = more compliant).

[mojoe7009]

I just towed our 2017 Classic from North Carolina to Orlando, Florida to Jacksonville, Florida then to Los Angeles, CA (over 4000 miles) with a ProPride Hitch. Awesome experience, no sway even during high winds in New Mexico and Arizona. One feature rarely mentioned is the additional turning radius achieved by the ProPride design. If I was rating the hitch it would be 5 stars all the way. Plus, customer service by Sean is phenomenal! Do it...you will thank yourself every time you tow.