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Old 09-27-2011, 06:13 PM   #101
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Amen Brother Ken

Too much trailer. Too little truck.
Now watch the sparks fly.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:39 PM   #102
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The only thing the haha eliminates is SWAY, it does not eliminate complacency or raise IQ.

You still have to load properly, watch your payload and tongue weight, drive defensively to match conditions. Get rest when needed. And do the proper maintenance.

IMHO...That includes the HAHA, doing a complete inspection every year, including removal, re-torqueing all mount bolts, ball, chains and receiver.
If you buy it, install it, and forget it, nothing good is going to happen.

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Old 09-27-2011, 07:14 PM   #103
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After towing with the Hensley there are at least 3 things that are imperative to using this hitch properly.
  1. The strut bars must be snugged up tight or the trailer will tow sloppy - you will feel trucks and crosswinds.
  2. The trailer brakes must be adjusted equally. Front of the trailer pushes to one side when coming to a stop.
  3. The brake controller must be adjusted properly so that the trailer brakes lead the tow vehicle.
I have experienced negative effects with these 3 items. It is not fun when coming to a stop and having the "bump" from the hitch start pushing the rear of the truck around.

My speculation on this wreck is that the tow vehicle was "bumped" by the hitch swinging out to the side pushing him across the road towards the opposite guardrail. There was probably enough momentum to turn the trailer over on it side and when the truck flipped over the guardrail the hitch snapped at the welds - the weakest point of any hitch.

The Hensley is a good hitch but there are few things that you need to keep your eye on.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:47 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
One of my co-workers' biggest concerns about the HaHa is that it can lull the driver into a false sense of security. After lots of discussion, we are thinking along the lines that the HaHa will not give you an indication of trouble until it's far too late to do anything about it. My big orange hitch that's sitting in storage was donated to me by a national auto insurance company after the vehicle and Airstream it was installed on flipped, killing everyone on board. Luckily, that was not the case here.
Oy. I'd definitely hesitate to use that (specific) hitch too!

I had a "little" experience with sway about 15 minutes into my first experience towing our Airstream. The PO hadn't had the hitch set up correctly - sway bar too loose, lifter bars practically unloaded, breakaway cable routed through the chain - not that it mattered because when I tested it, the cable came apart at a crimp instead of pulling the brake pin, and the hitch brackets weren't set up so the chains were straight.

A pickup towing a large box trailer (the type race cars use) zipped past us and sent us swaying pretty badly. I was probably doing 50, he was probably doing 75, going in the same direction. I tightened the sway bar at the next stop and have been slowly adjusting the hitch to be better. But I definitely will not forget that first experience. (Since I've adjusted the hitch, I've been in situations where we were doing 55 on a two-lane road, and a truck going at least as fast passed us in the other direction, without even a wiggle, so I feel like it's in pretty good shape now.)

I'm glad everyone was okay in this accident. Scary as hell, though. I keep telling my wife that the most important thing about towing is, "Don't panic." (True for driving in general, of course.) I know firsthand, though, that in that 0.1 seconds you have when things go awry, it's a lot harder to remember my own advice.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:52 PM   #105
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I haven't seen anyone mention the necessity of being able to reach and apply the manual trailer brake control to bring a sway situation under control...

Every time I tow our AS, I practice several times to reach and apply the manual trailer brake control WITHOUT looking - trying to make it second nature, in effect, so I can hopefully actuate it in an emergency 'sway' event...

It's almost one of those items that you should be able to do without even thinking about - big sway in back - hit the manual brake control!!! Pilots and even big rig drivers to some degree practice automatic responses to emergency situations as part of their continuing training - perhaps we TV operators should be more proactive in this area as well...

Perhaps, with regard to this accident, there wasn't enough time to reach and apply the trailer's brakes to help stop the sway - but, it never hurts to try this method - and to practice it from time to time to get used to the effects of that manual control lever!

Be safe out there - I might be right behind you...
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:12 PM   #106
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Curt Hitch

I picked up my new receiver today.

Since my purchase was prompted by this thread I thought this would be a good place to share.

I was going to buy Reese, however my source now carries Curt. I did some checking and they are a reputable American company. They are rated the same as Reese. So I bought a new Curt for my 02 GMC Yukon.

Important note: Being a 1500 I could only get a class IV 10,000 lb rated receiver, max 12,000 with WC hitch. One must not exceed the trucks rating. class V is rated for 2500 or bigger, only.

Easy DIY job. With an air impact and an end wrench and car jack it took about 45 minutes start to finish.

I also gained 2 1/2 inches of clearance with the new receiver. I will have to re-adjust my drop hitch to compansate for the gain in receiver height.

Again I would like to thank those who have contributed in giving me this wake up call on a very important safety issue.

A new receiver is very cheap insurance.

Peace out.
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:56 PM   #107
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Towing 250 miles across the Colorado mountains today, I kept thinking about this thread. We discussed what to do should the trailer start to sway. The brake controller is mounted at the bottom of the dash to the right of the steering column—not a good place, but the only place.

A long time ago I taught myself that if in an accident, the first thing to do when the noise and movement stopped was to turn off the ignition. When I was in my only accident, I went to do it automatically even though I had just banged my head on the roll bar (it was a '72 CJ5, an awful vehicle) and blacked out for a moment—there was no key! Those were the days when you could take the key out when the engine was running. I had another key and turned the engine off. Never did find the key—it probably was in the snow and had flown out when the top ripped apart. I slid off the road right after an ice storm and hit a telephone pole sideways, but I did remember to take out the key.

What to do when an emergency starts to happen should be natural and fast. This takes a lot of preparation.

Gene
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:21 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Is there a difference?
I know on my Sequoia the rear cross member is not a bolt on tube... it's a fully boxed part of the frame. For the receiver to destruct like that, the whole back end of the truck would have to go with it... ditto for a Tundra... no bolts!

I'd think the ball, shank, or coupling would fail first on a Toyota...
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:39 PM   #109
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Maybe other Tundras have no bolts, but our '07 has 6 on each side. The tubes are welded to the receiver and to a plate on each side. The plate is bolted to another plate which is bolted to the frame. If the tubes were not bolted to the frame, you couldn't removed the receiver assembly and replace it without cutting at the welds. There aren't a lot of welders I would trust cutting it apart and welding a new assembly in—bolts make it much easier to replace. Tubes are not necessarily bad—the type of steel, the thickness and diameter of the tube matter.

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Old 09-27-2011, 11:51 PM   #110
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I've read through most of the theories, and as an accident investigator, looking at the pictures of a wreck tell me only 10% of the story. What I would be doing at a scene like this is walking all the way back to where the incident began... looking for any evidence of the theories suggested (tire off edge, uneven pavement, debris). Any type of loading on a tire is going to produce a mark... maybe very faint, but if there was yaw/skid, then there would be marks.

Once I had an idea of where it started, and how it got to the end, then I would be interested in the resting state. A dented guard rail and a tipped over trailer don't tell me anything about how they got there. A download of the ECM would give me a good picture of what was going on with the truck's systems prior to wreck.

If I couldn't find anything showing the cause... I'd have the whole thing taken for a complete mechanical inspection - an autopsy of sorts. Then, with access to examine it in detail, I'd have some idea of which was the last part to fail... and go backwards from there.

There is only 1 good picture of the receiver, but here is what I see:

-impact point from the trailer/frame on the left of rear bumper
-left remnant of cross tube is twisted towards the front
-right remnant of cross tube is twisted towards the rear

This tells me that the receiver tube was twisted counterclockwise. I know the trailer was still attached when this was happening, because without the trailer, there is nothing to create this twist.

The impact on the bumper supports this. Without having access to the trailer I can't say for sure, but you are typically looking at a 45 degree angle before any trailer part hit's your bumper. So, it's very unlikely that the receiver failed and caused the crash. It's very unlikely the trailer became unhooked. To create this result, we need the trailer connected via the receiver.

That's about as much as I can walk backwards... the hitch would need to be examined to see the same thing... did it fail because of the extreme angle of the TV and trailer? If anything on the hitch is bent, then it likely didn't fail prior to crash. A part failure would be a fracture, missing bolt, something like that.

All that said... the receiver and cross member on that rig seems pretty skimpy for a Titan...
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:03 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Maybe other Tundras have no bolts, but our '07 has 6 on each side. The tubes are welded to the receiver and to a plate on each side. The plate is bolted to another plate which is bolted to the frame. If the tubes were not bolted to the frame, you couldn't removed the receiver assembly and replace it without cutting at the welds. There aren't a lot of welders I would trust cutting it apart and welding a new assembly in—bolts make it much easier to replace. Tubes are not necessarily bad—the type of steel, the thickness and diameter of the tube matter.

Gene
You are right... the hitch isn't added on to the frame like the Titan pic, it's part of the frame by being another rear crossmember. But, it does bolt from the ends... not from the bottom...
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Old 09-28-2011, 04:18 AM   #112
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Thanks For the Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batman View Post
I picked up my new receiver today.

Since my purchase was prompted by this thread I thought this would be a good place to share.

I was going to buy Reese, however my source now carries Curt. I did some checking and they are a reputable American company. They are rated the same as Reese. So I bought a new Curt for my 02 GMC Yukon.

Important note: Being a 1500 I could only get a class IV 10,000 lb rated receiver, max 12,000 with WC hitch. One must not exceed the trucks rating. class V is rated for 2500 or bigger, only.

Easy DIY job. With an air impact and an end wrench and car jack it took about 45 minutes start to finish.

I also gained 2 1/2 inches of clearance with the new receiver. I will have to re-adjust my drop hitch to compansate for the gain in receiver height.

Again I would like to thank those who have contributed in giving me this wake up call on a very important safety issue.

A new receiver is very cheap insurance.

Peace out.
Thanks for confirming the ease of installation of the Curt hitch. That's the brand we are looking at also for the new Silverado. They do make a Class V that will fit ours. Thanks again...
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:22 AM   #113
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Yes, Curt does make one.
Class V Receiver Hitch 15522 [15522] - $192.73 : The Hitch Store
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:50 AM   #114
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Something that was mentioned above about where the brake controller is mounted made me think about where we put them in a fresh install. I always ask the customer if they are left -or-right-handed, and place the controller on that side, if at all possible. A left-handed person would be more likely, unless heavily trained against it, to use their left hand in an emergency. That extra quarter second when your brain is trying to make your wrong hand do something could make all the difference.
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:34 AM   #115
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Friday, thanks for a good post. The speculation is interesting, but at this point, we've gone about as far as we can without more information. Tire marks may tell a lot. I think the interest is because we all worry about whether it will happen to us and what should we do to prevent it, or acting smart if it does. I was going to mention the Tundra hitch assembly acts as the last cross member on the frame rails, but thought it would complicate my post.

Terry, as a left handed person, I think mounting on the left is unnecessary. Lefties get used to using our right hands almost as much as our left and some of us are ambidextrous. I can train my right hand to do almost anything my left can do, although I don't bother most of the time. I can use a hammer and eat right handed—it's kind of clumsy, but if I kept at it, I could do it better. Sometimes a nail has to be hammered in a tight space and using my right hand is easier. If I cut my index finger, it can be painful to hold a fork in my left hand, so I use my right hand and try not to stick the fork in my nose. So I know I can do it. This is the result of living in a right handed world. So I don't have any trouble having the controller on the right side.

I very much do appreciate your concern about we lefties—we don't get a lot of that. When the pen is tied to the right side of something I have to sign instead in the middle, that is insensitivity. And we both drive. Barb is unfortunate enough to be right handed and she would have far more trouble using the controller with her left hand. Righties are one handed, lefties are two handed. So I would ask a left handed person whether they use their right hand a lot and whether there is another driver who is right handed.

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Old 09-28-2011, 08:02 AM   #116
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I very much do appreciate your concern about we lefties
Gene
My dad who passed away a few years ago was born in England at a time when it was considered wrong to be left handed and this bad habit had to be corrected!

He was naturally left handed but was forced in school to write with his right hand.

As a result he grew up being able to write equally well with either hand.

He could even write simultaneously and equally well with both hands!

The only thing he couldn't do was to write different things with each hand at the same time! I suppose that would take some real mental agility!

I guess I'm deviating a bit from the topic of this thread - sorry!

Brian.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:30 AM   #117
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I guess I'm deviating a bit from the topic of this thread - sorry!

Brian.
I'm not. We downtrodden minorities need all the sympathy we can get. When I learned to write in the 1940's, they did not force us in NYC to write right handed, although they didn't help us much either. I couldn't remember which way to hold the paper and my hand smeared the ink when we got pens. I have friends who were forced to write right handed and were insulted for having trouble with that. I think it is harder to write left handed and no one but me can understand what I write, even me sometimes.

But the original point is important—controls should be placed where they are most easily used by each individual. No one asked me where I wanted the brake controller and even though it works for me on the right side, not every leftie can use their right hand as well as their left. I can't write well right handed—bad printing is the best I can do—but I don't do well left handed either. I would get an F in calligraphy. I love keyboards—they are neutral and the most used letters are mostly on the left side.

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Old 09-28-2011, 08:53 AM   #118
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"I guess I'm deviating a bit from the topic of this thread - sorry!"

Where are the Mod's....

Deviate both handed behavior should not be allowed on this site.
Just what ELSE are you using both hands for?

Bob
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:01 AM   #119
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Deviate both handed behavior should not be allowed on this site.
Just what ELSE are you using both hands for?

Bob
Use your imagination.

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Old 09-28-2011, 09:04 AM   #120
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Hi, I don't know if this is what jmtandem meant, but sometimes I get the feeling that those with this type of hitch, big trucks, tire pressure monitors, and disc brakes Etc. feel too comfortable when towing.

We have no idea what really caused this accident. But we can probably rule out several things, for example, a motorcycle probably does not have much bow wave to buffet the Titan and Airstream, or that it was not raining/ no ice, etc. Also, we have no idea how many thousands of miles this driver has towed his Airstream. What we do know is that it ended up in an accident this time.

As to my comments about being assured that nothing can go wrong because we believe the salesman that the truck is more than enough to tow the trailer, the hitch manufacture that states that sway is controlled (not mitigated) and virtually impossible with the hitch and that Airstreams are the best towing trailers out there. Pretty impressive credentials for the owner to mate together for a safe trip. What is not said is that the truck manufacturer's tow ratings are for max trailers under ideal circumstances. Add firewood, barbecues, bicycles, chairs, tools, etc and the tow ratings go down. A trailer that old might have had uneven braking or perhaps was even loaded too much aft, and the hitch that works perfectly might not have been maintained or adjusted recently. As Andy said everything is a big guess. Sometimes the HA bump is sufficeint to get the drivers attention and even attempt to move around the rear of the truck. Some have speculated that could be part of the cause. We may never know as the driver might not recall everything, perhaps did not grab a handful of trailer brakes when sway started and did the automatic response of hitting the service brakes on the TV perhaps amplifing the problems.
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