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Old 09-25-2011, 11:33 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
WTF...the first post indicates it was a NISSAN Titan towing.
Ok, edit my post to say Nissan or perhaps just generic non US, I still feel the same.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Consider....

Sure glad no one was hurt....this very unfortunate accident has provided 56 posts of speculation.

Lets all just be careful, wait for the reports and move on.

Bob
Agreed,

The post did have the desired effect. I crawled under our Titan today and all welds are intact and with no corrosion. I'll also squirt some grease in the zerkers of the PP as there was a fair bit of squeak/groan when I brought her back from getting the axle bearings re-packed the other day.

With that said, out Titan has been a fine vehicle for a half ton rig, and we like it better than the F-150 we used to have. It is also clearly stated in the maual that the tow capacity is maxed out 9500 lbs (and only for certain equipped models), and only when a properly rigged WD set up is used. I feel good since our 23 is well under the 80% safety margin many apply to max ratings. Given The weights of longer AS, I don't think i'd go any bigger than a 25 footer with a half ton.

Glad no one was hurt, and that the original poster was willing to share for us to learn from. Identifying potential safety issues is the key to preventing accidents.

-Cheers
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:37 PM   #59
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I know how this can all happen. I have had bad sway twice. Once the trailer and truck swapped ends and the trailer was in the lead.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...e-46232-4.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...e-27195-2.html
My receiver and frame never even twitched.
Both times was a properly set up Reese Dual Cam and a Ford 3/4 ton Pickup. First one was gas, second one was diesel.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:50 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I never trusted the "round bar" receivers on the GM's and would feel the same on other makes.
While working at the Chevy store we replaced an awful lot for weld failure and cracks, the receiver head design was not very inspiring either.


This is what I took off our 06 Burb, and what I replaced it with.
Just looking at the difference should explain why.

Something we don't pay enough attention too.....inspect often!!!!

Looks to me like the receiver failed.

Bob
I have never trusted the round-bar receivers either. I don't know if the round-bar hitch contributed or simply failed under the stress of the roll over, but I intend to remove and replace my round bar receiver right away.
P.S. I once watched a fish-tailing, utility trailer with a riding mower roll the tow vehicle. When the dust cleared the tow vehicle was resting on its top all smashed up. The utility was sitting in the road, right side up, lawn mower in tact.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:34 PM   #61
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There has been a pretty impressive amount of arm-chair accident investigation done through this thread – lots of food for thought – but it would be nice to hear more direct information on the behaviour of the unit just prior to the accident and the follow-up investigation by the right professionals.

This is an accident that seems to go straight to the core of the relationship between the tow vehicle and the trailer - and one where it seems the driving behaviour, the hitch, the tow vehicle, the marriage between the tow vehicle and the hitch, and also the brake controller set-up can – and have – each been questioned.

I – for one – would really like to know more – and do hope that fresh information will be able to contribute more to the discussion.

Thanks,


Jay
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:31 PM   #62
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The only two 31' trailers produced in the 1990's were in 1998 and fully loaded would weigh 8,300 lbs. The Titan is substantially less. Empty, just over 5,000 lbs. Probably 6,000 plus with stuff, people.

I'm still trying to visualize the rig coming one direction on a 2 lane road, rotating 90˚ in the accident in the relatively short amount of space available. Two lanes would be 24' maximum and very possibly less plus the two shoulders. The shoulders would be narrower in most cases. Total road width 35'-48'.

If this sounds familiar, it is.

Gene
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:06 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Brian,

Some reading on the subject.

..... you hit the rivet right on the head, a new quality receiver is very CHEEP insurance....

I used the Reese Tow-Beast V, with a welded 2" insert. Less than $400.

BOB

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ver-54796.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...les-34603.html


http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tch-58202.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...500-40825.html

Thanks Bob, I will be checking out those links and also availability of that reese hitch at local hitch shops. If I do change my hitch, then of course I want to try to be sure I am changing it for something more substantial and don't just wind up with a different design but no better than what I have!

Mine is definitely the tube type - I'm nit sure if newer GMC's are any better than older ones or not.

After reading this thread I realized I hadn't taken a look at the hitch since our last major cross country trip so did that this afternoon.

The hitch is of course bolted bolted to the frame but involves welding of teh various component parts.

Using a high power flashlight and one of those head strap binocular magnifiers (neighbours must have thought i was nuts!) I examined each and every weld as throughly as I could and to this point there is no evidence whatsoever of any distress, so I need to decide whether to bite the bullet now and change it arbitrarily or watch and wait and change at the first sign of any welds starting to fail.

I guess mine must be a class five hitch as it has a sleeve to bring it down to 2". The sleeve is loose however, not welded.

I have a seven year bumper to bumper warranty on our truck which I assume would include the OEM hitch.

If it started to fail I wonder what chance there would be of GM giving me a credit against a Reese hitch versus just changing in kind, or re-welding. Slim to none I suppose!


Brian.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:17 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
The only two 31' trailers produced in the 1990's were in 1998 and fully loaded would weigh 8,300 lbs. The Titan is substantially less. Empty, just over 5,000 lbs. Probably 6,000 plus with stuff, people.

I'm still trying to visualize the rig coming one direction on a 2 lane road, rotating 90˚ in the accident in the relatively short amount of space available. Two lanes would be 24' maximum and very possibly less plus the two shoulders. The shoulders would be narrower in most cases. Total road width 35'-48'.

If this sounds familiar, it is.

Gene
I don't know if this helps fit them in the road, but if they are rotating horizontally, generally the TV and trailer are going to be closer to 90 +/- degrees to each other than still in line. In other words don't be surprised to see the rear of your trailer out your side window. However at the same time you may be seeing the guard rail out your windshield.

Ken
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:58 PM   #65
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IIRC, the original Chevy/GMC hitch receivers that were found to be weak/ defective were those that had an open cavity above the receiver. Later ones, including mine, have had a plate welded inside that space for strengthening. I also inspect the welds regularly. I'll see about taking a pic tomorrow.

That being said - it appears to me that the factory hitch may not be up to the stresses required long-term for those of us with big trailers. Mine is one of those '98 31-footers, pulled by a 2004 Duramax (lashed up with a haha).

I think I'll take my recently saved travel money and go shopping for a hitch receiver.

As for this unfortunate soul, my money is on the Tundra's hitch failing. I doubt we'll ever hear the results of a thorough investigation because I doubt one will be done. Who is interested enough to pay for such a thing? Even though that is my opinion, I disagree with those that say this thread is meaningless; you never know what you will learn while you are thinking about something else.

Pat
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:12 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
I'm still trying to visualize the rig coming one direction on a 2 lane road, rotating 90˚ in the accident in the relatively short amount of space available. Two lanes would be 24' maximum and very possibly less plus the two shoulders. The shoulders would be narrower in most cases. Total road width 35'-48'.
Gene
Gene

Take another look at the pictures. That is a 4 lane road and has close to a 10 foot shoulder on the accident side. Look at the impact on the guard rail where the truck went over it. The impact is almost at right angles to the rail with only one upright bent directly away from the roadway. If sway were involved it is hard to envision how that attach angle could have occurred and the trailer remain in line with the TV.

Another thing we are all assuming the pictures represent the accident as happened without any changes. I mention this as I have to question the strap and chain attached to the lower end of the rear axle of the truck. If that sling was in preparation to righting the truck it would be attached to the top of the axle. Was the truck pulled away from the trailer? There is no evidence of drag marks to support that.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:15 PM   #67
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This was a Titan, not a Tundra...
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:35 PM   #68
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Brian,

The dealer really doesn't have a lot of wiggle room when it comes to warranty.
They are allowed to extend the time past expiration, in some cases we would cover the failed part, customer pay labor. If there was good customer service and scheduled maintenance history we had a bit more leeway.
What quite a few of our commercial customers did was purchase the aftermarket replacement which we would install, the customer paying the difference between warranty and customer pay labor, usually less than $50.
He then had the OEM hitch he could for lawn art.

If you have the GMPP extended it should be covered, I would call GM customer service first to find out, some dealers might assume it is excluded.

What year is your TV?

First thing I did when we got the 06 Burb was replace the hitch. The insert was welded in NC.

I've witnessed one hitch failure in 28yrs of Stream'n. Fellow camper backing into his site at a pretty severe angle, when three mounting bolts sheared on the left side of the receiver dropping it to the ground. That was the eye opener that started me on my hitch inspection routine.

On our 95 Burb I went so far as removing it every Winter, Buffalo is not hitch friendly in Winter.

The 06 has grade 8 stainless bolts and I had the TB powder coated so that routine has been abandoned, the bolts still get torque checked every Spring though.

Bob
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:52 PM   #69
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Howie, it was stated the driver pulled over to let traffic by. That is why I thought it was a 2 lane road. Now that I've blown up the photos again, I see 2 lanes in one direction (accident side) but I'm not sure there are 2 coming the other way. The driver may have pulled over out of the passing lane, or pulled over onto the shoulder. And you are right to mention things may have been moved. We are making lots of assumptions and this is a case of you hadda be there.

Once again, a TITAN, not a Tundra.

I got under my Tundra and I have the tubes too. They look bigger than the ones on the Titan in the photo, but maybe only because I want them to be. The were about 3" diameter. They are welded to a plate which is bolted to the frame member with lots of bolts. They are welded to the hitch receiver. The ones I could see were marked 11, a hardness grade I don't know about. All welds looked fine though where paint has been scratched off, there is some rust on the surface.

Why is square better than round? Even it is better, thicker, bigger tubes may be as good, no?

Gene
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Brian,

The dealer really doesn't have a lot of wiggle room when it comes to warranty.
They are allowed to extend the time past expiration, in some cases we would cover the failed part, customer pay labor. If there was good customer service and scheduled maintenance history we had a bit more leeway.
What quite a few of our commercial customers did was purchase the aftermarket replacement which we would install, the customer paying the difference between warranty and customer pay labor, usually less than $50.
He then had the OEM hitch he could for lawn art.

If you have the GMPP extended it should be covered, I would call GM customer service first to find out, some dealers might assume it is excluded.

What year is your TV?

First thing I did when we got the 06 Burb was replace the hitch. The insert was welded in NC.

I've witnessed one hitch failure in 28yrs of Stream'n. Fellow camper backing into his site at a pretty severe angle, when three mounting bolts sheared on the left side of the receiver dropping it to the ground. That was the eye opener that started me on my hitch inspection routine.

On our 95 Burb I went so far as removing it every Winter, Buffalo is not hitch friendly in Winter.

The 06 has grade 8 stainless bolts and I had the TB powder coated so that routine has been abandoned, the bolts still get torque checked every Spring though.

Bob

Hi again Bob, thanks for that additional info.

My warrantee is the GM warrantee - the last extended warrantee I had was an aftermarket warrantee and it was like pulling hens teeth trying to get them to pay for anything - I had to threaten small clams court twice!

So this time I went with GM! I have only had a couple of very small items so far and they have bee covered with no quibble under the original factory three year warrantee which expires this November - my truck is a 2008 - I am really happy with it, my first diesel!

As mentioned there seems nothing visibily wrong with my OEM hitch welds as of today's inspection except that the pin hole is somewhat hogged out on one side.

I noticed that after the first season of towing and read the threads about an angled pin causing that. I immediately changed for a straight pin and it seems to have stopped the problem getting worse - I wasn't sure whether to try welding and re-drilling the oval pin hole, but so far I have just lived with it and I'm not aware that it causes any problem. I'm a bit nervous about doing any welding on modern vehicles anyway in case I somehow mess up any electronics!

This is certainly an interesting thread and I hope that eventually we get some better insight as to what actually caused the accident, but I suppose we may never know.

Brian.
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