Ball Height Question

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by Yooper

Or, I may buy one of the anti-sway kits, without the WDH, and be prepared at least to address the sway gremlin which Howie keeps emphasizing.

Ridgeline!

For the good of all please advise if you find a Sway Control System that is not part of a WDH. Don't come back and say the Reese friction sway control will work. That is a joke that the lawyers just haven't descovered yet.

Not sure what your hesitation is if you have several thousand dollars invested in an almost new trailer to not going for the equipment to tow it.

[Mike Lewis]

My last comment----If Honda doesn't recomend a WD hitch because the owner my not be able to adjust it properly, then what are their thoughts about the owners ability to use a Brake controler. An improperly adjusted brake controler is at least as dangerous if not more than a WD thats not set up correctly. Would the same reasoning apply here? Ther's obviously more to their reasing than that. My guess is they fear body damage where the reciever mounts to the unit body as a WD hitch adds conciderable more load at the attaching point.---pieman

[Yooper]

Chicken not so little calling me "cheap?"

That did it!

You have all worn me down, some with logic, some with flames, but the lady with her war stories, subtly implying yours truly was cheap, threw on the final straw!

Using Andy's warnings on over-hitching, and factoring in "wild-card's" warning on actual hitch weight ready to "rock 'n roll" (390 plus 100 or so), I found that Reese made a 550 supercharged dual cam sway control WD hitch and ordered it today. (notice cam-lock, Howie--I was listening)

Here it is:

USA-TRAILER-HITCHES.COM - Wholesale Trailer Hitches

I have raised the white flag! Let there be peace, once again, on this forum.

Dick

Ps: do I earn another rivet, yet?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Yooper

Chicken not so little calling me "cheap?"

That did it!

You have all worn me down, some with logic, some with flames, but the lady with her war stories, subtly implying yours truly was cheap, threw on the final straw!

Using Andy's warnings on over-hitching, and factoring in "wild-card's" warning on actual hitch weight ready to "rock 'n roll" (390 plus 100 or so), I found that Reese made a 550 supercharged dual cam sway control WD hitch and ordered it today. (notice cam-lock, Howie--I was listening)

Here it is:

USA-TRAILER-HITCHES.COM - Wholesale Trailer Hitches

I have raised the white flag! Let there be peace, once again, on this forum.

Dick

Ps: do I earn another rivet, yet?

Not so easy.

You stated, you asked, and you were given almost non-conflicting information.

For the benefit of others, please report back to this forum, the performance results, with as many details as you can, as to how your rig handled on the highway. Also please include all the trailer, tow vehicle and hitch information.

Also please rate it from a one (terrible) to a ten (outstanding).

I am sure that many others, will be standing by, waiting for your report.

Proof, is always the heart of the pudding.

As Paula Ford said, "life", yours and others, are ..........priceless.

And finally, this is not "AN APRIL FOOL" joke.

Andy

[HowieE]

One last question.
The fellow you are buying the trailer from is his name Ted H?

[Yooper]

If you troll long enough you usually catch a fish! As you all know, I have been wanting a real life before and after WDH meets the Ridgeline story. A friend from Wisconsin sent this to me:

"See pre and post-Weight Distribution Hitch real-world Ridgeline towing experience:

http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/gui...umentid=635461

"(From above link):

"From Jacksonville in northern Florida, we headed west on highway 10 before hanging a left on 75 and heading south to the Brooksville exit and our destination, Croom Off-Road Park. It was on highway 10 that the decision to install the weight distribution hitch was duly reached. As I was passing an 18-wheeler, the combined effects of coming out of the truck's draft and getting hit by a side wind sent the trailer in a wobble that quickly got the Ridgeline dancing also. To be honest, it was a little scary, and I really hated myself for letting the trailer's usually lazy and subdued swaying lull me into a false sense of security. So I broke out the wrenches and tape measure, and installed the Equal-i-zer weight-distribution hitch a model that also provides sway control. And as I had suspected all along, it made a BIG difference in how the Ridgeline towed.
…..
"The large pit area was a veritable sea of trucks, trailers and RVs of all types, and quite frankly, this being America, our Ridgeline/Starcraft combo was at the light-duty and low budget end of the scale. But hey, we had driven over 3,000 km to get there, and the Ridgeline had proved trouble-free, very comfortable and, with the weight distribution hitch installed, a truly efficient hauler.
…..
"Our renegade journey back home, in direct non-compliance with the Honda manual's recommendation of not using a weight distribution hitch, allowed the Ridgeline to make amends. With the weight transfer, ride levelling and anti-sway effects of the torsion bar system, the Ridgeline's towing performance was transformed, and the truck regained much of the composure it had shown while towing the empty trailer at the beginning of this test. You could still feel there was a lot of weight back there, but it felt under control at all times. The difference was obvious under windy conditions and while descending hills, where the tail no longer felt like it was about to wag the dog. We encountered heavy rain on the way back, sometimes with strong side winds, and even when splashing through relatively deep standing water, I always felt in complete control.
…..
"The truck itself felt better planted, and the trailer felt more solidly attached, which is basically what a weight distribution hitch is supposed to do. I never got that spooky ''What's this thing going to do next?'' feeling I experienced a few times on the way down. In fact, I completely forgot about the possible ill effects of the front-wheel drive or P tires, and just enjoyed the stable, comfortable ride. Yet despite the Ridgeline's calm assurance, I always kept in mind that the truck was towing at its limit, and kept speed and following distances in check. If nothing else, the sudden swaying episodes encountered on the way down served as a good reminder that a loss of control can come very quickly while towing."

Now, I never doubted for a minute what you folks pushed me into doing! (Lie). Sure is nice to have anecdotal evidence from a real person with a real Ridgeline and a real WDH, before and after! (Although the character above was hauling a 5000 pound utility trailer built like a box, and not a svelte Airstream Bambi.)

Howie: not my seller. My seller lives north of Boston and keeps MY Bambi in a heated carriage house at his summer home just north of the border into New Hampshire.

Andy: Yes, I will post my experiences with specs, and I hope I can earn another rivet. You sound like you need a beer.

TTYL,

Dick

[Yooper]

The link I provided above (chapter two) has an earlier chapter which isn't readily accessible from that link.

For those who are interested in the review of the Ridgeline as a tow vehicle, here is chapter one of the story, written by a self described "real truck" guy, as the reviewer starts his haul from Montreal to SW Florida with a 5,000 lb toy trailer and full family complement WITHOUT a weight distributing hitch:

Guides and Advice from Sympatico / MSN Autos - Honda Ridgeline Saga Part One - Heading South

Notice the author's working hypothesis that the recommendation AGAINST a WDH is from company lawyers, not their engineers. Also notice the "small print" that allows use of a "sway control system" IF your trailer has a tendency to sway.

As I plan to have my Ridgeline for a bunch of years, it will be interesting to see if I rip out its bottom. Frankly, I distrust engineers, who are caught up in marketing to "real truck" guys, more than I do lawyers who have to know how big of a target Honda would be.

Dick

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Steve Heywood

I'm replacing my worn out Eaz Lift with a Reese Strait-Line. Problem is I can't seem to match my current ball height (19 1/4" unloaded). Depending on the shank I'm either an inch lower or about 3/4" higher.

I was thinking that slightly lower might be better but I'm not sure I want to go that low.

Ideas, comments?

Thanks,

Steve --Did you get this question answered to your satisfaction? This thread kind of took off in another direction---pieman

[Yooper]

Pieman, good point. Could an administrator move the Ridgeline/WDH part of this thread to another appropriate area, such as under tow vehicles?

Sorry about that!

Dick

[raebaker06]

NOTE of IMPORTANCE
If the height distribution of the trailer is incorrect , it could cause the front wheels of the towing vehicle to not have sufficient traction and thus you would have steering problems if it is too light, It would also make sway more previlant. That would effect you when that big eighteen wheels flies by.

Be careful and note the bumper height on the front of the towing vehicle before and after you hook up.

A nose down attitude of a trailer means a nose up attitube on the front of the towing vehicle and a poor steering problem.

Rae

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by Yooper

Frankly, I distrust engineers, who are caught up in marketing to "real truck" guys, more than I do lawyers who have to know how big of a target Honda would be.

Dick

Ouch! That will cost you a rivet…
Just remember; you will be maxed with this combo, please travel slow and safe. Your family’s life, and others, is not worth the risk of any stunt driving. Being at the max will mean having to pack light and pack consistently every time (front/rear, side/side) or you will experience very different handling characteristics each time you tow. You don’t have much margin for error…
As others have noted, you must subtract passengers, fuel, snacks, DVD players, etc from usable tow capacity. I have yet to hear anyone complain they have too much TV. Many have come back after using marginal TV’s and stated they were lucky to survive, or are too stressed from white knuckle driving, etc
After your first scary towing experience, or when circumstances allow, you may want to explore moving up to at least a ½ ton tow vehicle, particularly, if as you have stated, you plan to do this for several years.
Be safe, and learn how to use the manual over-ride lever on that brake controller.

Sincerely, Ralph N
Resident Engineer

[Inland RV Center, In]

.

Andy: Yes, I will post my experiences with specs, and I hope I can earn another rivet. You sound like you need a beer.

TTYL,

Dick

No way, no way.

Mai Tai's, oh yeah, but only in Hawaii. They still use the "funny umbrellas."

Andy

[Yooper]

Picked up the Bambi in New Hampshire last week and successfully navigated the narrow winding roads from Lake Winapisakee (sp!) to the New York tollway and then over the bridge into Canada and back into Michigan at Port Huron. Visited family in Detroit and then headed up over the Mackinac Bridge and the final 300 mile home stretch to the western end of Michigan's upper peninsula.

1350 miles.

I had the full gambit of challenges, from steep hilly terrain to high speed flat lands, including stretches with 35 MPH crosswinds and semi after semi.

Once I figured out how to install the Reese weight distributing hitch and adjust my Tenosha electronic brake controller, everything was easy. As it was hotter than Hades when I was working on the installation in New Hampshire, my patience was a little short, and I decided not to install the anti-sway system, but I suspect the moment arms involved and the chains dropping from the trailer's a-frame to the load leveling bars add an anti-sway element, as I never felt uncomfortable on the road in cross winds or with trucks storming by.

My gas mileage varied from 11.8 mpg on the hilly low speed sections where I repeatedly cycled up and down through 3 of my transmission's gears, to 17.6 mpg on I-75 heading north to the bridge, where I was doing some cycling through 2 of my transmission's gears. My speeds varied from 45+ MPH through the White Mountains to 65+ MPH on I-75.

The Honda has a button on the end of its gear shift selector that can be pushed in which automatically shifts the transmission into a lower gear. I found this really helpful in the hilly sections of New Hampshire and Vermont. Great way to rest the brakes and let the engine do the braking.

Unequivocably, the combination of the Honda Ridgeline and the 16' Bambi is a winner!

Love this little Airstream, but someone needs to write a GOOD manual for it! I have spent the last 24 hours getting to know the systems and the manual was virtually no help. Always like trying to find a needle in the haystack. Too much information covering too many models with poor illustrations and diagrams. The biggest challenge was getting hot water. When I finally figured out the valves hidden in the closet I was able to fill the hot water tank. Once again, the manual's illustrations were of no help! (Except to let me know there were valves.)

Thanks for everyone's help!!

Dick

[BillTex]

Yooper, congrats on getting Bambi home safely. Glad you took the advice on the WD hitch, you should also take the time to figure out the anti-sway (or in your case, sway control. I am not a big fan of friction type devices, but you have it so use it) The first time you need it, you will be glad you hooked it up. While this trip went fine, you will find that how you load can have a significant effect on handling, especially with a smaller TV.
Not sure what you received for a manual but AS manuals are typically very comprehensive. I have a huge 3 ring binder with everything right down to wiring schematics for every appliance! Do a search, you may find one for your model.
Does that Honda have a tranny temp gauge? I would be very concerned about all that gear hunting, sounds excessive. Keep a close eye on the tranny temp, if you don’t have a gauge, get one asap. I would also change out that tranny fluid VERY SOON if you were not able to monitor it during your trip. Cooked tranny fluid is the best way to trash a tranny and it will happen quickly. If that “button” is a tow/haul mode, you should put it on and leave it on every time you are hooked up. That’s why it’s there!
Where were you in NH? Quite a few members up that way!
Welcome aboard and good luck with the Bambi.

Bill

[Yooper]

Thanks, Bill. We picked up the Bambi on the north end of a very hard to spell lake. Lake Winnipesaukee. We then cut overland pretty much due west through Vermont.

The Ridgeline has a transmission oil cooler and a temperature sensing gauge for the fluid. With the 5-speed transmission designed for towing, I sensed nothing out of sorts on this trip, and, of course, the warning light stayed off. With nearly 250 HP and torque in the same range, it may be small compared to what most of you use for a tow vehicle, but it never felt small or underpowered on this trip. I suspect an analogy could be made to the difference between a bike being geared properly or not. If you have been a biker you will know how much sweat you can break in hilly terrain if you are not geared properly. If geared properly, yes, you will shift alot, but you keep comfortable. The Ridgeline never felt like it broke a sweat!

My weekend project is to install the Reese anti-sway system, as I do like the extra peace of mind that it will likely provide.

Over thirty years ago I was a NIASE certified mechanic in engine rebuilding and electrical systems, so can appreciate well written shop manuals and can certainly follow a schematic. I do have the Airstream manual you reference and it is chock full of information, and housed in a nice blue fabric case, but I did not find it particularly helpful. If I ever have to troubleshoot an electrical system problem the schematics are there, IF you can figure out which applies to your model. For example, my manual makes NO REFERENCE to a Bambi 16, the closest example in any section is the 19 foot Safari.

What I wish Airstream would do is have a quick systems setup guide which gives an overview of getting your unit on the road and then references to more detailed sections if those details are needed. I had a bear of a time figuring out how to fill my hot water tank. I finally found a valve schematic that was at least close to mine and eyeballed the solution. Similarly, I had a bear of a time lighting my furnace. Never could find the switch outside the unit, so pulled the cover and found a reset switch inside the unit. No big deal, but the instructions I was following had me looking for two separate switches, following a specific sequence, and one wasn't there. Similarly, the hot water heater switch isn't marked as to function on the kitchen wall and I had to figure out what it did by trial and error. Simple things that could be handled with a MODEL SPECIFIC quick reference guide, or more labelling on the systems. (I'm mechanically inclined and read and write for a living, so God help owners who aren't!)

But that chink in Airstream's armor aside, I LOVE this camper. My wife wants a PA installed, so I can hear when she calls me in for dinner.

Dick

[henw]

Ok. I'm trying to get this all straight. When measuring coupler height, is it the outside, or inside height? When leveling the trailer for measurement, is a level placed on the inside floor adequate? Is, there a better way to be sure I am level and thus have the correct coupler height?
With a tilt to the ball, do you mearsure the back edge, middle, or front edge?
Tom

[henw]

Further info. AS tells me that the published ball height for my trailer ( 17.75 ) is measured with the trailer hooked up to the TV.
Tom

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by henw

Further info. AS tells me that the published ball height for my trailer ( 17.75 ) is measured with the trailer hooked up to the TV.
Tom

"WRONG" Factory or not, that statement is wrong. If you can provide that persons name, I will be glad to call them and have them stop giving out wrong hitch information.

The proper and "only" way to measure ball height is have the trailer loaded for travel and leveled, and sitting unattached.

Then measure from the ground up "INTO" the coupler.

Since one third (1/3) of the tongue weight will be returned to the axles, assuming a proper rated hitch, properly installed and properly adjusted is in use, then subtracting 1/4 to 1/2 inch from that dimension is in order.

Example. If you measured 17 inches, from the ground to "inside" the coupler, with the trailer loaded for travel, "NOT ATTACHED TO THE TOW VEHICLE", then you would set the ball height to 16 1/2 inches to 16 3/4 inches, depending on type tow vehicle you will use. A heavy duty tow vehicle would not drop as much as a light duty tow vehicle, therefore as an example if you used a 3/4 ton truck or equal, then setting the ball height to 16 3/4 inches would be correct.

These instructions were developed over 35 years ago, using truck scales to make sure that the tongue weight was redistributed correctly, which is 1/3 back to the trailer axle or axles and 2/3 to the tow vehicle, properly and equally distributed to the 4 wheels of the tow vehicle.

Ideally, the trailer should be level within itself as well as the tow vehicle, when the two are hooked up together, ready for the road.

Andy

[henw]

Andy,

I forwarded the discussed message from AS to you via email.

Tom

[tphan]

Interesting discussion here! I would love to be able to comply with the advised height setting for the ball on my hitch- but don't know how to. The set-up won't allow me to get lower than about 22", mounted on my Suburban 3/4 ton. What can I do? Thanks!