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Old 08-29-2013, 12:04 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Here is what I would check. But first, is it bending vertically or laterally in relation to your insertion? If vertically, here is my thought. Although I haven't examined a Ford receiver that closely.

I don't think the oval hole in the sleeve is the issue. GM's is oval as well. It should just "float" in there, taking up clearances.

I believe an upward bend indicates, when WD is applied, that the pin is being used as a load bearing "Fulcrum".
It has been my experience that the shank should bear the load of WD at the top of the mouth of the receiver AND at the bottom front (front orientation to front of TV) of the receiver. The pin should float (although there is always some forces applied to it) and not be bearing the WD load.

The causes might be:
1) So much slop between the receiver and sleeve and shank that the the front bottom of the shank can't bottom out on the front inner surface of the receiver until some deformation of the pin occurs.
2) I have seen some receivers that have a very short throat from the pin location to the front end of the receiver tube. Same effect on the pin.
3) the distance from the pin hole to the front of the shank itself is short and has the same effect on the pin load.
4) a combination of all or some of the above.

Hope that makes sense.
Hi, going along with this, [without seeing the spacer] I think the spacer/insert should be just as long as the receiver is deep. For example: if the receiver tube is 6"s deep and the insert is only 3"s deep, this would allow for too much up and down movement. And this would put too much pressure on the pin. If this is the case, maybe weld two spacers end to end.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:40 PM   #44
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I think that as long as the sleeve AND the receiver are as long as the shank it's fine. Both longer than the shank is fine. The point is having the primary contact points The front bottom and the rear top of the shank as the major load bearing surfaces with the pin center in a straight imaginary line between the two aforementioned points. I need to go down and measure some shanks.....I have quite a few.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:57 PM   #45
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So I went and looked at 6 shanks. All are 2.5" from pin center to the rear end of the receiver mouth contact points and are 3" from pin center to the end (front) of the shank. So, whatever the engineering desired outcome is, I believe anything that disrupts those 2 points from being the load bearing surfaces causes undue stress on the pin. BTW, my GM sleeve is about 3/16 - 1/4" longer than the shank while pinned in and the receiver pocket is a good 1" longer than the sleeve.

I examined the following shanks, 1PP, 1 Reese, 1 Drawtite and 3 HAHA. All measure the same.
Maybe Sean can give us the theory of the geometry.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:56 PM   #46
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Robert, I see what you mean about your garage. I'll bet a pound of Nuvite that you have more shop skills than I have. Where did I put my Nuvite?

DnzFog, I agree with your assessment. That is where the loads ought to be applied in the receiver: top of "mouth, or entry", bottom of "back", or toward the front of the TV. When I jack up my connected trailer to tighten the spring bars, the front of the trailer and the rear of the truck go up. Same effect with the spring bars. The load should be carried in the "squares". What happens when we twist, or rotate the hitch while entering a ramp at an angle, say a fuel station? I think my pin is getting pinched in rotation also.

My hitch pins are bending upward according to the way I insert them. When I simply lift my draw bar, or "stinger" in the receiver, it hits the pin. When I twist, or try to rotate the draw bar, it hits the pin.

I have so much slop in the receiver and reducer sleeve that the pin is taking the load. I tried to buy some shim stock today but no luck. I'm sure Robert has some .050 shim stock in his garage somewhere. I did get a grade 5 5/8 by 4" long bolt, and interesting enough, it is abouit .007 smaller in diameter than the hitch pin. It might provide enough clearance so I get contact of the squares before the pin.

Can anyone rotate, or even remove the hitch pin with the spring bars loaded? If we are load bearing on the squares, then I think we could. Then the pin is then regulated to pull and brake shear loads only. My pin is bound tight in the receiver when I'm hitched up. When I take the hitch load off the ball with my jack so I can drive forward to unhitch, the I can rotate my hitch pin.

I don't plan to unhitch until tomorrow evening. The measurements you made sound similar to my receiver and reducer sleeve. I'll check them tomorrow.

dkottum, I don't feel or hear the bump during braking as some talk about with the Hensley. I do feel it and see it in my rearview camera when I am backing up a hill and articulating the truck to the trailer. I hope to see you next time I'm in Battle Lake.

Ft Stevens State Park is very nice. Classic Oregon pine forests, ferns, and the Pacific too. Tomorrow down the 101 highway to the next stop.

David
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:41 AM   #47
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David,

I cannot move/rotate our pin when the AS is hooked up, with or without WD set.
I've always had what I consider too much "slop", but no noise or problems while towing with the Hensley.
Our first,(15yrs ago), Reese IV hitch did not have the slop problem, but if you left the stinger in they just might be rusted there forever.

The sleeve is welded on the Reese V Tow Beast and the insert holes are not oval. They match perfectly and give approx 1/2" support on either side. The sleeve extends at least, (will measure...back shortly).

The Reese Receiver is 8" deep.

The sleeve extends 6" into the opening.

The pin is 2" back from the face.

Bob
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:06 AM   #48
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Bob, does the shank extend beyond the front end of the sleeve? Looks like no, if that's a wear mark I see in your last pic.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:14 AM   #49
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David, I can't remove my pin when loaded (the hitch, not me), but it isn't under a terrible stress. I'd bet I could drive it out with a punch without a lot of force. With my RockTamers on and no trailer, I can only move the end of my flaps up and down maybe 1.5" up and 1.5" down all the way at bumper end....so although there is slop, it's not that bad. The GM sleeve is close enough that sometimes I can't just slide it out, I have to get a hammer and tap it loose. The shank to sleeve interface has about the same slop as any 2" setup.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:13 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Bob, does the shank extend beyond the front end of the sleeve? Looks like no, if that's a wear mark I see in your last pic.
The haha shank is 1/2" from the front> end of the sleeve.
A 5 1/2" insertion is all I can manage.

POI...I have about the same amount of "slop" on the ends of our TowTector also.

Bob
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #51
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Robert, thanks for the great pictures, and the observation that the shank pin is tight when you are hitched up. DnzFog, your observations of a tight shank pin are also useful. Maybe the pin is taking more load. I will measure and photograph this evening at my new campsite, and maybe judge the rotational wiggle at the end of my rock tamers as an indication of how much hitch slop I have.

My receiver pin holes show some distress. My shank pin certainly shows some distress at the bearing points of the 2.5" receiver. And the Propride pin hole also shows some distress at the ends of the hole. I almost think there is some oblong deformation at the entry points of the hole.

And I will look for wear marks at the entry upper, and rear lower of my reducer sleeve.

David
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:32 PM   #52
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While hitching up for the Labor Day weekend. I thought of something else. I have a Hensley with the Propride-for-Hensley adjustable shank. I noticed that after 5000 miles with the new stinger, and everything has seated, I need to add another tilt washer. That got me to thinking about your situation.

Guys, check me on this....I'm having a little trouble noodling it. First a question: When you are all hitched up is your stinger end (the end that goes into the PP head parallel with the A frame and both parallel to the ground? I am thinking that if you don't have enough downward tilt on the stinger so it is parallel when spring tension is applied, you may be not forcing the receiver rear end of the stinger up into the top rear or the receiver pocket after all the clearance is taken up in the head bearings. I can visualize this causing the bottom front of the stinger and the PIN taking all the load till it bends enough for there to be contact with the rear upper receiver pocket. I could see this being exacerbated by a sloppy receiver and sleeve.

If the rear of the stinger is not parallel with the A frame and ground, add a washer(s) to provide more tilt until parallelism occurs with WD spring tension applied.

Am I thinking right?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:51 PM   #53
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Rich,

Our rig is not quite parallel before the bars are tensioned, about 4" low. With them set all the vertical slop is at the rear is gone, with visible clearance at the bottom edge, none at the top.
I transfer between 650-680 with bars set, depending on loading.

I think your observation of the contact point at the front of my sleeve supports your hypothesis.
No clearance at the bottom front of our sleeve or the top rear, with the stinger pivoting around the pin. (pattern on pin confirms)

My brain pocket hurts...

Bob
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:25 PM   #54
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Hitch Slop Video

We made it to Bullard State Park near Brandon, OR. It is beautiful, a wonderful state park.

I made a quick video of all the slop in my hitch. You can see 4" of angular movement of the rock tamer when I lift them, and you can see quite a bit of movement in the stinger in the vertical direction.

I am using one washer to tilt my stinger down a bit. I thought it was parallel to the ground and A frame. I do have my 1400 pound bars cranked up 7" in order to restore level of the Super Duty, and restore front axle weight. That puts my bars tilted up at the rear. They are not parallel to the A frame.

Bring some popcorn. Enjoy the video:
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:12 AM   #55
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Well ours is loose, but not that loose!

With that much play I can see the possibility of the pin being the fulcrum and taking the excess load.

Before getting the slop-taker-upper for the boat stinger, I had a piece of flat stock that I tapped into the top of the receiver, might be worth a try if you can find something to use.

BTW...my weight transfer #'s were rong, I forgot to include the weight being moved to the AS axles.....160-180lbs.

When done with your trip I would take the PP stinger to as many outlets as necessary and find one that is long enough and fit's tight enough to get rid of most of the play. I think too that if the sleeve holes were not oval the receiver would better support the pin.

FWIW...I had to use Cheetos for the vid, which may have effected my observations.

Bob
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:49 PM   #56
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Hi, WOW; That's way too much movement. There must be a practical way to reduce that slop.
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