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Old 04-16-2010, 06:30 PM   #29
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Im leaning towards the Mor/Ryde suspension on my truck. I like the concept of the airsafe.. i really do.. but the Mor/Ryde would settle the truck down even when empty and its the root cause of the vibration to the trailer. I would get the better ride light or heavy. For my application its about $900.00 dollars not including my labor to install.
Lots to think about. Its ok right now on good road but the cement road dividers make me crazy. California roads have to be some of the worst.

Would love to see pictures of the airsafe in a real world application. As soon as you get it all rigged up I will be checking it out.

Thanks Vinnie
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:01 PM   #30
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tavern napkin physics...

w/d involves TORQUE at the spring bars/ball/hitchhead...

HOW much force/tension/torque is determined by considering basically 2 things.

1. weights at the tongue, drive/steer axles...
2. a series of distances/lengths (wheelbase/overhang/axles)

((the 3rd thing is SPRING rate at all the axles/tires))

L O N G E R overhang=more TORQUE needed to PUSH the steering axle DOWN and LIFT the drive axle UP.

HOW MUCH the bars need to be flexed is the 4th issue and is based on bar ratings...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...sis-19236.html

but for ANY w/d forward to the tv or backward to the trailer axles, the A frame will be under STRESS...

and that stress will be GREATER with more overhang (from any source).
_____________

the w/d bars are FLEXing and do function like springs at the hitch...

so as the rig MOVES the bars DO vary tension on the cams.

on the issue of IMPROVING w/d function, i don't think so.

additionally there is a PHASE issue...

tv springs/shocks, w/d bars flex and NOW a compressible air bag is added...

are the 3 SPRINGing things in phase?

i dunno.

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Old 04-17-2010, 12:12 PM   #31
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This is the first time I've heard anyone say that the AirSafe concept actually puts more pressure on the trailer's A-frame. I don't believe it.

I've been using a Class V AirSafe hitch for the past five years, and the indications are that it's much easier on the A-frame and trailer body. At least, my rivets quit popping when I'm towing with my F250.

Relative to the theory that the several extra inches of hitch makes it more difficult to transfer weight, if true, isn't the same effect present with the extra length of the PPs and HAs of the world?

In any case, it sure is nice to feel the smoother ride when towing with an AirSafe, and to look in the rearview mirror on those rough and tumble Interstates and see the trailer gently moving at the direction of its own rubber torsion axles and oblivious to the jerks and slams it would otherwise get from the tough suspension of my F250.

I used to tow with a 76 Ford 500 sedan and missed the gentle ride it provided for my Airstream when I got the F250 diesel. The AirSafe has brought that ride back for my trailers.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:32 AM   #32
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I agree with Airstreamer 67....in regards to stress on the trailer's A-frame. I don't see how the "stress" would be any more than with a regular wd system. We've pulled trailers, both types, (5th wheel and conventional), for more than 45 years. The only hitch I have not used (yet) is the Safe Air, that I'll be setting up Monday.
At any rate, until proven otherwise, the Safe Air, look's like an excellent setup. If the A-frame fails because of it, my thought would be that it is an Airstream problem, and not a hitch problem...
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #33
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Larry, let us know if your A-frame is negatively affected by the AirSafe hitch. If it is, then it would be the first one I've ever heard of. Theoretical musing doesn't carry much weight in the real world, especially if it's about events that have not been known to happen.

Anyway, I wasn't focusing on the A-Frame when I got my AirSafe five years ago. I was focusing on the stressed body of my Airstream, which is where all those popped rivets and torn sheets of aluminum are located. That is where the stresses generally show up from forces placed on them by heavy-duty tow vehicles, rough roads and bad axles.

I think your Airstream will thank you for the air-cushioned ride. I know mine did.

The AirSafe hitch is particularly popular among those who do not want the jerk of heavy vehicles affecting their cargos, such as those who haul horses. It seems the horses arrive a lot less fatigued from the ride. I think your Airstream will be less fatigued too.

Good luck with your adverture into the world of air-cushioned towing.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:40 PM   #34
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I also do not believe that there is a bit of additional stress on the A-frame with an AirSafe. I believe the case is just the opposite since the hitch absorbs impacts that the A-frame would otherwise have to handle. I have been using mine for well over a year (including 250 miles today) and I love it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:54 PM   #35
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I used my new Airsafe hitch this weekend. WOW! There is one section of old cement highway that is awful. Every joint in it seems to rattle your teeth. I like what the hitch did for the ride of the trailer. It was a smoother ride which translates to a happier me and my wife likes that.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #36
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Air Safe trial runun

OK, ya'll, I received both parts to my Air Safe, here's the straight dope on the hookup, and the trial run.

The switch over from the Reese Dual Cam was straight forward, and quite simple. The main thing was to keep the hitch ball height the same, (19 1/2 inches). this was a simple matter of putting the bolts through the right holes in the adaptor plate.

I put enough air in to level the links, and hooked up the trailer as I always do. Then added air to the bag, until the links had about a 5 degree upward cant. This ended up to be 45 pounds, with my tongue weight of 900 pounds. I set my bars on the 5th link, as always, and every thing was level as it should be.

A couple of interesting points should be mentioned here, in regards to "overhang".

#1. With the orginal setup (Reese Dual Cam), the distance from the rear bumper of my Dodge was 15 3/4 ", to the center of the ball.

#2. With the Air Safe, the distance from the rear bumper to the center of the ball was 15 1/2", so much for the "long over hang" theory.

Now for the first trial, I drove a 25 mile stretch of road that was undulating, and had a severe crown, along with a lot of bumps. I couldn't believe the difference! I watched the mirrors, the trailer pitch when a bump was hit, was reduced at least 80% or more. When a bump was hit, it could still be felt, but nothing like before...

My Dodge is a 3/4 ton, and the hitch weight only depresses the truck springs about an inch, perhaps, 1 1/2". The only reason I use the Dual Cam is for sway control, the w/d is not necessary for a 3/4 ton truck and only 900# of hitch weight. With that in mind, I went to the 6th link on the w/d bars, and the ride was even better.

All in all, I am impressed with the Air Safe, we'll be leaving for Alaska, on May 12. I'm glad I bought it. For those of you who commented on the negative points on the Air Safe, I would suggest that you look at one that is installed, then try it your self...I think you'll be impressed as I was.

Larry C
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry C View Post
...The only reason I use the Dual Cam is for sway control,
the w/d is not necessary for a 3/4 ton truck and only 900# of hitch weight. With that in mind,
I went to the 6th link on the w/d bars, and the ride was even better...
nice report.

it's good 2 c some numbers referenced

instead of vague insults from folks who "have too much towing experience" to NEED to weigh anything.

but unless/until you weigh the AXLES it's hard to know WHAT is being done where.

and suggesting w/d isn't necessary for 900 lbs with a 3/4 is clearly NOT a notion that all accept.

and the RECEIVER being used isn't rated to 900lb WITHOUT w/d is it?

lets assume the 900 lbs tongue IS something you've measured?

((since a/s lists the tongue weight at 690-760 lbs))

900lb at the A frame is more like 12-1300 lbs at the truck drive axle.

and is UNLOADING the steering axle 300-400 lb perhaps.

and doesn't include other PAYLOAD in the truck which may affect axle loads.

you may LIKE how that feels or drives but it's not the ideal set up for control/handling.

yes, some degree of friction sway dampening can be achieved without w/d...

but 900-1000 lb bars FLEXED enough to reload the steering axle is still important.

any useful info really needs to include values measured at the axles, UNhitched, hitched, w/d tight and loose.

and THEN air bag gyrations added.

proper set up STILL depends on those figures since each tv/trailer combo is unique.

and may be even MORE important in this set up...

since the air bag can be used to level the trailer without improving w/d to the truck.

cheers
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:28 PM   #38
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Air Safe trial run and comments

Well, Air2,
Here's the deal, I'm not saying that I have a lot of towing experience, only 40+ years. I've pulled nearly everything that you have probably seen on the road. I know what a safe, and an unsafe condition is, both from a towing, and a manufacturing standpoint.

I don't have the time, nor the inclination to debate your formulas, and your ideas in regards to towing capabilities, or truck capacities. About 2/3 or what I've seen you write in regards to the Air Safe hitch, is either conjecture, or assumption, backed up with a vague knowledge of math.

When I started this thread, I was attempting to find information in regards to this hitch. I didn't intend to provide a forum for people to attempt to impress others with their knowledge (or lack of), in regards to hitch loading and truck capacities.

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Old 04-20-2010, 03:18 PM   #39
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Thanks Larry for a good report. Indeed, there has been lots of conjecture here about this hitch, with little useful information.

We just finished a several month trip with our rig over a variety of road conditions, reading and listening to various opinions about hitches. I found myself anxious about sway condition, even though we never experienced any. Yes, we could feel the air on the leeward side of passing trucks, and nervous about road ruts. But sway, no. Anxiety, yes.

What to do. My first impression was to buy the expensive but proven projection-point-forward hitch (PP/HaHa). As we went along I began to realize my our greatest discomfort came from the roughness of road surfaces, and the pitching of concrete section highways, especially when the w.d. bars are sufficiently tightened. The Airsafe seems to help this discomfort by cushioning the connection, and allowing enough w.d bar tension to ensure its anti-sway function is operating without bouncing us around so much.

Again, thanks for the report of actual use and we will look forward to any updates you or other users may have.

Doug K
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:54 PM   #40
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This thread is starting to get good. I enjoy a good discussion about an important topic like this.
I hope that Larry C will let us know how the Airsafe unit is funtioning for him on his trip to and the return from Alaska.
I can't think of a harder test of the Reese/ AirSafe combo unless he takes it on a treck to South America thru Mexico.
My Airsafe hitch is on order, but I doubt that I will be able to put it thru it all the conditions that Larry's trailer will see during his journey.

2Air, I'll probably do some of the weighing and measuring as you mentioned above to get the setup as close to perfect as possible but I probably won't be crunching my calculator. More than likely, a "seat of the pants" feel of the ride of the trailer and TV is about all I'll be able to provide for this discussion.
There are several long time Airstreamers who have bought the AirSafe that have favorable comments about it on this thread and others.
I can't recall any negative comments from any actual users of the system. One guy said something that he would use a lighter airbag in his, but that is the closest one to negative as I could find.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:21 PM   #41
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bluto

positive reports are nice.

thinking is nice too but takes effort.

and in the dozen or so threads here there are positive reports from about 10 accounts.

in some cases (light trailer/big truck) the air bag is a reasonable option.

but IF w/d is needed the trailer frame/hitch/truck frame MUST be tensioned (stressed) to get that effect.

having an airbag AT the junction doesn't change that, it's really pretty simple.

the 4 bar links on each side ALLOW for w/d while still letting the bag move (great idea) but ONLY IF THE w/d bars are adequately TENSIONED.

5th wheel experience (higher % hitch weight, no w/d) doesn't translate to on the ball towing.
_________

a lot of folks tow on the ball withOUT any gadgets or with inadequate w/d or no sway control and LIKE their setups.

adding a bladder to that mix is fine too.

but i've yet to read anybody (from this tiny group of buyers) posting actual measured values for ANY of the basics...

none.

so IF you do that it might help clear up some issues.

it doesn't require a calculator to do this.

maybe there are folks who can glance at the rear view mirror and come up with 80% less whatever...

and consider that MORE tangible than some silly scale reading.

again a lotta folks just drop the 'stream on a ball and go and it all works out just fine.
___________

"taste great/less filling" was a wildly popular ad campaign....

miller sold a LOT of beer based on appealing to this confusion...

it's ok really have another!

now where's that napkin, i need to fiddle with the vague math before the suds blur things.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:10 PM   #42
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I think we are all on the same page, just not talking the same language. I think it's safe to say that we all agree that some tension is needed on the bars for W/D. It's just the amount. Then it's also safe to say that it all depends on the trailer, TV and everything else that comes into play when towing, including how the vehicles are loaded, etc..
So where was I?
Oh, never mind.
Holy Crap! Where's the Tylenol?
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