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Old 04-16-2010, 09:13 AM   #21
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Would any of you folks who have purchased and installed consider posting some detailed pics?
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:30 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by nunya001 View Post
Would any of you folks who have purchased and installed consider posting some detailed pics?
this is one of those products that been around a long time.

and discussed in GREAT DETAIL in many threads...

lots of pics, pros/cons and ALTERNATIVES.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tch-36522.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...hes-44641.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...hes-54158.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tch-20599.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...tch-40658.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...itch-3732.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...itch-7206.html

so read a bit and consider the ALTERNATIVES, some of which are MUCH better ideas.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:37 PM   #23
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One thing I took into consideration when looking at an Airsafe unit is that it can easily be transfered to a different brand and model TV in minutes, whereas some of the other options like Mor Ride that becomes part of the TV would be difficult to change to your next or other TV. Most likely the Mor Ride is model and year specific as compared to Airsafe, in that, it does not make any difference if Air Safe hitch is attached to a Ford,Toyota, Chevy, or Dodge truck.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:41 PM   #24
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true they are model/brand specific.

but the M R IMPROVES RIDE in the tow vehicle.

and since it becomes part of the tv,

can be used with ANY hitch, any trailer, all of the time.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:48 PM   #25
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Ya, all depends how you look at it.
I'd like to have both but, I don't think that's going to happen.
Choices, choices!
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:09 PM   #26
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85-90% of the trailer weight RIDES on the axles.

the PRES of a/s has posted that AXLEs determine the RIDE for modern 'stream.
_____________

IF SWAY CONTROL is desired, ONLY friction systems can be used with the airbag hitch.

that's a deal breaker for any1 who plans to use a pp or haha.
_____________

the EXTRA overhang IS a factor...

it may not mean much to overall length, but for yaw and w/d it's significant.

IF for example the current overhang is 36 inches the EXTRA is 20-30% more.

IF the tongue is heavy and w/d is needed (for example 800-1200 lb tongue)

the W/D bars will need another 15-25% TENSIONing to get the same w/d.

THAT STRESS will BOW/bend the A frame and that's a major issue.
_____________

towing without w/d or with a BOX truck, 60s 3 ton truck, or UNsprung dually....

and an older smaller lighter trailer...

the air bag hitch is maybe useful.

but for a MODERN larger stream and a NEWER 3/4 or 1 ton...

it is UNneeded and may create NEW problems. (sway control AND a/s FRAME stress)

the concept isn't bad, but when/where it becomes useful isn't simple.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:53 PM   #27
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2air, I would think the Airsafe would actually put less stress on the frame from the w.d
bars, because when w.d. tension is set, it does not change as the trailer pivots vertically on the hitch ball, as I understand it. Additionally, it would allow consistent friction for friction-based anti-sway that is not possible without the Airsafe, thereby preventing a loss of fricition as the assembly moves over bumps in the road.

Here's my reasoning. Your description is accurate when the rig is not moving. But when the assembly (without Airsafe) moves over a rise in pavement such as a gas station entrance, the tension is greatly increased on the bars, and therefore the frame. And when the assembly (without Airsafe) moves over a bump in the road, w.d. tension is reduced and friction is momentarily lost for anti-sway (not good if at that moment the trailer is also pushed by the passing of a large truck). The Airsafe would seem to eliminate both of these problems.

I am not suggesting Airsafe is better than anything else, but these features are interesting and worth discussion.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:49 PM   #28
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I realize that a lot of you guys have done this discussion over and over. I don't know if it was mentioned previously on another thread but here's my thinking on this AirSafe hitch.
If you think of the TV as a 1 ton and add the Airsafe hitch wouldn't you actually use less tension on the WD bars when the Airsafe is attached and the let AirSafe hitch do it's thing to help control sway and bumps, etc.? I'm only saying this because the 1 ton does not settle much if any when the tongue weight is on a rigid hitch so you can use less tention on the bars because you don't have to level the vehicle out much.
I'm talking about the Reese dual cam type set up with an AirSafe hitch combination.
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:30 PM   #29
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Im leaning towards the Mor/Ryde suspension on my truck. I like the concept of the airsafe.. i really do.. but the Mor/Ryde would settle the truck down even when empty and its the root cause of the vibration to the trailer. I would get the better ride light or heavy. For my application its about $900.00 dollars not including my labor to install.
Lots to think about. Its ok right now on good road but the cement road dividers make me crazy. California roads have to be some of the worst.

Would love to see pictures of the airsafe in a real world application. As soon as you get it all rigged up I will be checking it out.

Thanks Vinnie
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:01 PM   #30
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tavern napkin physics...

w/d involves TORQUE at the spring bars/ball/hitchhead...

HOW much force/tension/torque is determined by considering basically 2 things.

1. weights at the tongue, drive/steer axles...
2. a series of distances/lengths (wheelbase/overhang/axles)

((the 3rd thing is SPRING rate at all the axles/tires))

L O N G E R overhang=more TORQUE needed to PUSH the steering axle DOWN and LIFT the drive axle UP.

HOW MUCH the bars need to be flexed is the 4th issue and is based on bar ratings...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...sis-19236.html

but for ANY w/d forward to the tv or backward to the trailer axles, the A frame will be under STRESS...

and that stress will be GREATER with more overhang (from any source).
_____________

the w/d bars are FLEXing and do function like springs at the hitch...

so as the rig MOVES the bars DO vary tension on the cams.

on the issue of IMPROVING w/d function, i don't think so.

additionally there is a PHASE issue...

tv springs/shocks, w/d bars flex and NOW a compressible air bag is added...

are the 3 SPRINGing things in phase?

i dunno.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:12 AM   #31
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This is the first time I've heard anyone say that the AirSafe concept actually puts more pressure on the trailer's A-frame. I don't believe it.

I've been using a Class V AirSafe hitch for the past five years, and the indications are that it's much easier on the A-frame and trailer body. At least, my rivets quit popping when I'm towing with my F250.

Relative to the theory that the several extra inches of hitch makes it more difficult to transfer weight, if true, isn't the same effect present with the extra length of the PPs and HAs of the world?

In any case, it sure is nice to feel the smoother ride when towing with an AirSafe, and to look in the rearview mirror on those rough and tumble Interstates and see the trailer gently moving at the direction of its own rubber torsion axles and oblivious to the jerks and slams it would otherwise get from the tough suspension of my F250.

I used to tow with a 76 Ford 500 sedan and missed the gentle ride it provided for my Airstream when I got the F250 diesel. The AirSafe has brought that ride back for my trailers.
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Old 04-18-2010, 07:32 AM   #32
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I agree with Airstreamer 67....in regards to stress on the trailer's A-frame. I don't see how the "stress" would be any more than with a regular wd system. We've pulled trailers, both types, (5th wheel and conventional), for more than 45 years. The only hitch I have not used (yet) is the Safe Air, that I'll be setting up Monday.
At any rate, until proven otherwise, the Safe Air, look's like an excellent setup. If the A-frame fails because of it, my thought would be that it is an Airstream problem, and not a hitch problem...
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:02 PM   #33
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Larry, let us know if your A-frame is negatively affected by the AirSafe hitch. If it is, then it would be the first one I've ever heard of. Theoretical musing doesn't carry much weight in the real world, especially if it's about events that have not been known to happen.

Anyway, I wasn't focusing on the A-Frame when I got my AirSafe five years ago. I was focusing on the stressed body of my Airstream, which is where all those popped rivets and torn sheets of aluminum are located. That is where the stresses generally show up from forces placed on them by heavy-duty tow vehicles, rough roads and bad axles.

I think your Airstream will thank you for the air-cushioned ride. I know mine did.

The AirSafe hitch is particularly popular among those who do not want the jerk of heavy vehicles affecting their cargos, such as those who haul horses. It seems the horses arrive a lot less fatigued from the ride. I think your Airstream will be less fatigued too.

Good luck with your adverture into the world of air-cushioned towing.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:40 PM   #34
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I also do not believe that there is a bit of additional stress on the A-frame with an AirSafe. I believe the case is just the opposite since the hitch absorbs impacts that the A-frame would otherwise have to handle. I have been using mine for well over a year (including 250 miles today) and I love it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:54 PM   #35
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I used my new Airsafe hitch this weekend. WOW! There is one section of old cement highway that is awful. Every joint in it seems to rattle your teeth. I like what the hitch did for the ride of the trailer. It was a smoother ride which translates to a happier me and my wife likes that.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:24 PM   #36
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Air Safe trial runun

OK, ya'll, I received both parts to my Air Safe, here's the straight dope on the hookup, and the trial run.

The switch over from the Reese Dual Cam was straight forward, and quite simple. The main thing was to keep the hitch ball height the same, (19 1/2 inches). this was a simple matter of putting the bolts through the right holes in the adaptor plate.

I put enough air in to level the links, and hooked up the trailer as I always do. Then added air to the bag, until the links had about a 5 degree upward cant. This ended up to be 45 pounds, with my tongue weight of 900 pounds. I set my bars on the 5th link, as always, and every thing was level as it should be.

A couple of interesting points should be mentioned here, in regards to "overhang".

#1. With the orginal setup (Reese Dual Cam), the distance from the rear bumper of my Dodge was 15 3/4 ", to the center of the ball.

#2. With the Air Safe, the distance from the rear bumper to the center of the ball was 15 1/2", so much for the "long over hang" theory.

Now for the first trial, I drove a 25 mile stretch of road that was undulating, and had a severe crown, along with a lot of bumps. I couldn't believe the difference! I watched the mirrors, the trailer pitch when a bump was hit, was reduced at least 80% or more. When a bump was hit, it could still be felt, but nothing like before...

My Dodge is a 3/4 ton, and the hitch weight only depresses the truck springs about an inch, perhaps, 1 1/2". The only reason I use the Dual Cam is for sway control, the w/d is not necessary for a 3/4 ton truck and only 900# of hitch weight. With that in mind, I went to the 6th link on the w/d bars, and the ride was even better.

All in all, I am impressed with the Air Safe, we'll be leaving for Alaska, on May 12. I'm glad I bought it. For those of you who commented on the negative points on the Air Safe, I would suggest that you look at one that is installed, then try it your self...I think you'll be impressed as I was.

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Old 04-20-2010, 12:57 PM   #37
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...The only reason I use the Dual Cam is for sway control,
the w/d is not necessary for a 3/4 ton truck and only 900# of hitch weight. With that in mind,
I went to the 6th link on the w/d bars, and the ride was even better...
nice report.

it's good 2 c some numbers referenced

instead of vague insults from folks who "have too much towing experience" to NEED to weigh anything.

but unless/until you weigh the AXLES it's hard to know WHAT is being done where.

and suggesting w/d isn't necessary for 900 lbs with a 3/4 is clearly NOT a notion that all accept.

and the RECEIVER being used isn't rated to 900lb WITHOUT w/d is it?

lets assume the 900 lbs tongue IS something you've measured?

((since a/s lists the tongue weight at 690-760 lbs))

900lb at the A frame is more like 12-1300 lbs at the truck drive axle.

and is UNLOADING the steering axle 300-400 lb perhaps.

and doesn't include other PAYLOAD in the truck which may affect axle loads.

you may LIKE how that feels or drives but it's not the ideal set up for control/handling.

yes, some degree of friction sway dampening can be achieved without w/d...

but 900-1000 lb bars FLEXED enough to reload the steering axle is still important.

any useful info really needs to include values measured at the axles, UNhitched, hitched, w/d tight and loose.

and THEN air bag gyrations added.

proper set up STILL depends on those figures since each tv/trailer combo is unique.

and may be even MORE important in this set up...

since the air bag can be used to level the trailer without improving w/d to the truck.

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:28 PM   #38
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Air Safe trial run and comments

Well, Air2,
Here's the deal, I'm not saying that I have a lot of towing experience, only 40+ years. I've pulled nearly everything that you have probably seen on the road. I know what a safe, and an unsafe condition is, both from a towing, and a manufacturing standpoint.

I don't have the time, nor the inclination to debate your formulas, and your ideas in regards to towing capabilities, or truck capacities. About 2/3 or what I've seen you write in regards to the Air Safe hitch, is either conjecture, or assumption, backed up with a vague knowledge of math.

When I started this thread, I was attempting to find information in regards to this hitch. I didn't intend to provide a forum for people to attempt to impress others with their knowledge (or lack of), in regards to hitch loading and truck capacities.

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Old 04-20-2010, 02:18 PM   #39
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Thanks Larry for a good report. Indeed, there has been lots of conjecture here about this hitch, with little useful information.

We just finished a several month trip with our rig over a variety of road conditions, reading and listening to various opinions about hitches. I found myself anxious about sway condition, even though we never experienced any. Yes, we could feel the air on the leeward side of passing trucks, and nervous about road ruts. But sway, no. Anxiety, yes.

What to do. My first impression was to buy the expensive but proven projection-point-forward hitch (PP/HaHa). As we went along I began to realize my our greatest discomfort came from the roughness of road surfaces, and the pitching of concrete section highways, especially when the w.d. bars are sufficiently tightened. The Airsafe seems to help this discomfort by cushioning the connection, and allowing enough w.d bar tension to ensure its anti-sway function is operating without bouncing us around so much.

Again, thanks for the report of actual use and we will look forward to any updates you or other users may have.

Doug K
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:54 PM   #40
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This thread is starting to get good. I enjoy a good discussion about an important topic like this.
I hope that Larry C will let us know how the Airsafe unit is funtioning for him on his trip to and the return from Alaska.
I can't think of a harder test of the Reese/ AirSafe combo unless he takes it on a treck to South America thru Mexico.
My Airsafe hitch is on order, but I doubt that I will be able to put it thru it all the conditions that Larry's trailer will see during his journey.

2Air, I'll probably do some of the weighing and measuring as you mentioned above to get the setup as close to perfect as possible but I probably won't be crunching my calculator. More than likely, a "seat of the pants" feel of the ride of the trailer and TV is about all I'll be able to provide for this discussion.
There are several long time Airstreamers who have bought the AirSafe that have favorable comments about it on this thread and others.
I can't recall any negative comments from any actual users of the system. One guy said something that he would use a lighter airbag in his, but that is the closest one to negative as I could find.
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