Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-30-2008, 07:22 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
Over59's Avatar
 
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam , Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
Images: 37
Interesting but confusing. The website doesn't do the product justice. It's hard to know what to order, how it fits together, and how to set it up. May be great but the guys in the garage who came up with it are doing a poor job of education and promotion. The videos are not professional quality and don't show any advantage.
__________________

__________________
Over59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 07:38 PM   #30
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
New Borockton , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,288
Images: 21
Hey Ron, You can get in the weeds with that pretty quick and I'm sure a more scientific answer is coming but what I do is measure the bumper height and return it to that height with the correct length of chain on the bars. You're in the ballpark. Weighing front axle, rear axle and trailer tongue weight and then finding the correct setting that puts half on each axle is a pain but more accurate.
For what its worth, I'm known to run up to the lake on winding roads without WD or sway, even with my family on board. Call me a rebel.
Long interstate trips, I'll hook up the WD. BTW, I've only seen 3 jack knifes recently and all had WD hitches and sway bars. Not a suggestion not to use them but they don't prevent jack knifes. Smart driving based on the conditions (factoring what you have for equipment) goes a long way.
__________________

__________________
Randy...Converters, Inverters, Trimetric, Surge Protectors, Zamp Solar, AGM Batteries
www.bestconverter.com
68 Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 01:00 PM   #31
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstreamer67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 311
Andy, I think Ron has an interesting question regarding how much weight needs to be transferred to the front axle of an F350 dually diesel while towing a 28-foot Airstream in order to make the rig safe enough for the road.

As a logical extension, I would also be interested in how much weight you think needs to be transferred if that 28-foot Airstream were towed by an F450, or F550?

In fact, can you visualize any case in which a weight-transfer hitch would not be necessary, or even be counterproductive?

I have been led to believe that weight-transfer hitches first became popular in the 1950s for those vehicles, especially soft-sprung and long-overhung automobiles, that become overloaded in the rear by a trailer and thus needed the weight transfer for proper steering, braking and handling.

I also was under the impression that, in general, the issue of sway control was handled by anti-sway bars, which was a separate piece of equipment.

In more recent years, new designs such as the cam-operated friction devices and the Hensely were developed which combined both weight-transfer and sway functions.

I know your 42 years with Airstream has given you a great amount of insight on the topic. In fact, your experience has even led to your disagreeing with and very harshly criticizing a leading hitch manufacturer and its engineers on matters regarding how much weight should be transferred with various tow vehicles.

Thanks for the information!
__________________
Airstreamer67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008, 12:38 PM   #32
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,577
Images: 1
Looked it up on the DODGE site, with my 3/4-T diesel:

"While it's not listed in the charts, tongue weight [i] is also an important consideration. The recommended tongue weight is between 10 & 15% of the trailer weight. However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs.This requirement overrides any recommended GTW rating, between 10% and 15% of gross trailer weight (GTW). Additionally, the GAWRs and GVWRs should never be exceeded."

And, the note that, on trailers above 5,000-lbs, a weight-distributing hitch IS REQUIRED (and that above 12,000-lbs only a gooseneck or fifth wheel is acceptable).

You all still second-guessing Ph.D. engineers? I've been driving 1,000 or more miles per week the past few months and I have YET to see any bumper hitch trailer NOT swaying when without a W/D hitch; ANY kind of trailer, RV, boat or construction.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008, 01:08 PM   #33
Full Timers/Diesel power.
 
Mike Leary's Avatar
 
1983 31' Airstream310
Cactus Hug , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,540
Images: 11
I've been driving 1,000 or more miles per week the past few months and I have YET to see any bumper hitch trailer NOT swaying when without a W/D hitch; ANY kind of trailer, RV, boat or construction.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that: we followed a AS in Arizona last year that was was swaying
so much I could not even pass it for fear of pushing them off the road, or
them pushing ME off the road! We finally pulled off, it was too freaky.
__________________
"A settled wisdom, plus the itch to be elsewhere"
Mike Leary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2008, 07:59 PM   #34
Rivet Master
 
Tinsel Loaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 790
We have been using the Commercial Air Ride Hitch since 2003 about $1,500.00 US. Used with a Reese equalization setup. Would not go anywhere without it. The best invention for TV's because they take all the bounce, jerking and white knuckle out of towing. Along with Centramatic wheel balancers on your AS you will not find drawers open or stuff moved around on the inside of the trailer. Well worth the investment.
__________________
Tinsel Loaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008, 03:28 AM   #35
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstreamer67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 311
Rednax, I'm not sure who you are addressing, but I don't see anyone saying that you should exceed any manufacturer's recommendations on hitch weight, either with or without weight-transfer bars. I don't see anyone second-guessing of PhD engineers here, except perhaps someone who is in dispute with the hitch manufactuers' engineers, and that is not me.

All my weight-related towing parameters are as good as or better than manufacturers' specs. I am not violating any known specification from any equipment manufacturer that I utilize. I have never experienced sway in my 22 years of towing travel trailers coast-to-coast, and I'm trying real hard to never do so.
__________________
Airstreamer67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008, 03:40 AM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Journalist's Avatar
 
1969 25' Tradewind
Irmo , South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 744
I tow my '69 Trade Wind with a '97 Chevy C3500 crew cab dually. I discovered that the truck drives and rides better while towing to leave the WD hitch at home. I use a simple friction type anti-sway device and it pulls great. And yes, the WD hitch was set up properly. A 1-ton truck is designed to have some weight on the tail end. The hitch didn't accomplish anything but keeping the rear suspension in just the right range to make it ride way rougher than necessary.
I've been looking at an air hitch for a while now. So far, I don't have any rivets popping or skin cracking, but I'm a little concerned about all the horror stories.
__________________
AIR #8891
Unrestored 1969 25' Tradewind
Overkill Tow Vehicle of the Year Award:
2001 GMC 3500 4x4 Dually 6.6L Duramax
Journalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008, 04:05 AM   #37
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstreamer67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 311
Tinsel Loaf, I agree with you on the Air Ride (now called AirSafe) hitch. I've been using the Class V (about $1000) since 2005 because my trailers did not need the capacity of the commercial-class versions. This hitch manufacturer has produced a product that is first-class, no matter what weight-class hitch is required.

I find it interesting that the concept of the air hitch is much more popular for fifth-wheelers. I suppose it is because of the very heavy hitch weight specified for fifth wheelers (20% to 25% of total weight), which evidently affects the ride quality of the tow vehicle much more than lighter-hitch-weight travel trailers.

About the wheel balancing, I ordered a set of the Centramatic balancers, but the size that was supposed to fit my Airstream didn't actually fit. Serendipity, however: I found they did fit my Jeep Wrangler, so I'm using them on it to good effect.

For my Airstream wheel balancing, I then ordered some Dynabeads, and they work very well indeed. I've been quite pleased with the balancing effect of the Dynabeads. The advantage of such wheel-balancing efforts (Centramatics and Dynabeads) is they seem to accommodate the whole wheel assembly problem described often by Andy, except they don't have to be rebalanced every 12000 miles or so, since they automatically stay in balance by their very design.

The result of the AirSafe hitch and the automatic continuous wheel balancing: the smoothest trailer towing I have ever experienced. And my trailers' parts are now staying in place too, rivets and all.

Journalist, if you ever decide to try the ride-on-air hitch design, you won't ever go back, and you'll wonder what took you so long. At least, that was the effect it had on me and my trailers.
__________________
Airstreamer67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008, 06:46 PM   #38
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,577
Images: 1
"In fact, can you visualize any case in which a weight-transfer hitch would not be necessary, or even be counterproductive?

I'd say, Airstreamer67, that this statement (challenge) more than meets the qualification of "exceeds manufacturers recommendations" as it is not the hitch manufacturer who drives this question, it is the vehicle manufacturer, first, the RV manufacturer second and only a distant, irrelevant, third the manufacturer of the hitch apparatus.

Your question -- challenge -- to Andy was one he has already answered, more than once in these forums. Since you apparently set up your hitch in a way he criticizes, your question is disingenuous (as phrased). Were you to search the forum for Andy's answers on questions of this sort you will see that his recommendations as to tow vehicles are limited (by deduction) since his championing of a particular way of rigging a hitch is quite specific.

The deduction about tow vehicle type is that some are simply too stiffly sprung. You might wish to follow up on this line of thinking as he lays out reasons. Agree or disagree, it is consistent.

Now, if we could just get him to pose, on-line, the "Twelve Questions".
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2008, 07:21 PM   #39
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,577
Images: 1
Now, if we could just get him to pose, on-line, the "Twelve Questions" here, or at his website:

Load distribution hitches-an analysis
Post #83

The predictive factors were arrived at by very closely examining over 1000 loss-of-control accidents while towing an Airstream trailer.

Each loss was examined as to how the tow vehicle was rigged, what kind and brand of hitch was used, what rating or ruggedness the suspension system had, what was added to the suspension system of the tow vehicle, type of sway control, if any, etc.

Gathering that information, very quickly raised "red" flags as to what setup was an accident looking for a place to happen, and what on a small scale was still a mystery.

We documented, "and proved," the cause of 90 percent of those accidents.

I will look in my very old records to see if I can find the original 12 questions that were used in each and every one of those losses.

However, posting them in this forum would probably cause a rash of arguments that I do not wish to start.

Perhaps I could post them as an article in our web site, for everyones perusal.

Andy
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 10:13 AM   #40
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstreamer67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 311
Rednax, I'm having a problem following your line of thought(s) in your last post. Let me give it a shot:

1. I am not violating any known requirement or guideline or whatever from the manufacturer of my truck, my trailer or my hitch. What is your question or point regarding those again?

2. My question to Andy was whether a weight-distribution hitch is needed for all tow vehicles with a 28-foot Airstream. Andy has said that the hitch manufacturers are calling for weight-transfer bars that are too stiff for heavy tow vehicles, and recommends much lighter ones. I wondered what are the parameters for such a recommendation. EG, should an F250 get the same weight-transfer bars as a dually F350, F450, F550? If not, then what should they get? In other words, how much weight should be transferred to the front axles for the various trucks for proper highway safety? Is there any case that such a weight-transfer is not necessary or desirable? If this has already been answered by Andy, please cite it.

Thanks.
__________________
Airstreamer67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 11:29 AM   #41
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstreamer67 View Post
Rednax, I'm having a problem following your line of thought(s) in your last post. Let me give it a shot:

1. I am not violating any known requirement or guideline or whatever from the manufacturer of my truck, my trailer or my hitch. What is your question or point regarding those again?

2. My question to Andy was whether a weight-distribution hitch is needed for all tow vehicles with a 28-foot Airstream. Andy has said that the hitch manufacturers are calling for weight-transfer bars that are too stiff for heavy tow vehicles, and recommends much lighter ones. I wondered what are the parameters for such a recommendation. EG, should an F250 get the same weight-transfer bars as a dually F350, F450, F550? If not, then what should they get? In other words, how much weight should be transferred to the front axles for the various trucks for proper highway safety? Is there any case that such a weight-transfer is not necessary or desirable? If this has already been answered by Andy, please cite it.

Thanks.
You are violating simple laws of Physics.

You are ignoring the safety and comfort of your passengers.

Dually's, F-250, F-350, F-450, F-550, Peterbilts, are all a waste of money, a waste of comfort, and a gross mis-use of tow vehicles, when towing any size Airstream trailer, ever built.

If your logic is correct, then we must ignore Physics.

Trucks, contrary to some opinions, are not the "MAGIC" tow vehicle, but are more of a "complete overkill" for the purpose intended.

Each owner can do as they wish, however right or wrong.

We still make pencils with erasers, to take care of the "OOPS", that included RV owners who insist on ignoring safety, Physics, and the well being of their passengers, who usually are their family.

Not a single hitch manufacturer has "YET" to investigate "ANY" loss of control accidents when specifically towing an Airstream.

I, other the other hand, have over 1000 (one thousand) of them to my credentials.

When any owner, or hitch manufacturer has the loss of control experience and knowledge that I do, then and only then will I have any form of disussion with them. It's to me, sort of useless to have a discussion about hitching, when that person has "ZERO" statistics to go by. Many opinions, absolutley, facts, "not a one."

To say my trailer doesnt sway, is hogwash. Ride in the very rear end of your trailer, whoever you may be, at 60 to 70 MPH. Then and only then can you make that statement.

All to many RV owners, love to challenge and dispute facts, regardless of the subject. Again, using opinions, don't hold water, when you lost control, and hurt someone, when your in front of a judge, because your accused of improper operation, and/or rigging.

Articles are in motion, that I have written, that will satisfy many owners. However, there will be the select few, that will still dispute facts and Physics.

For those that will learn, I personally thank you for your patience.

For those that will still dispute, please carry tons of liability insurance, and "NO" I will not carry on any form of hashing the facts back and forth on these Forums.

Some travel trailer owners, just don't get it, and never will.

I am not trying to be harsh with anyone, but I am being "frank and up front."

Talk is cheap.

Opinions are just that, too.

Physics is facts, not cooked up garbage.

Interesting enough, most people that dispute Physics, never took the course.

I am very proud to be a licensed pilot with over 1200 hours of pilot in command. That group of people, rarely, if ever, render opinions. Yes we all love to "hanger fly", where we discuss the reality of flight, and pass on our experiences, both good and not so good.

The National Transportation Safety Bureau, publishes a very few paged report, every other month, that spells out aircraft accidents, and the causes. The vast majority, is "pilot error or judgement".

If we did the same for travel trailers accidents, we would have a phone book sized editions, but our FEDS are not interested in teaching Physics.

Not a single RV manufacturer, or hitch manufacturer, has ever made the attempt to determine what is "safe rigging," and "why."

Before I depart this good earth, I for one, will publish information, that will take their "oops" attitudes to task.

That includes some of the "nice salemen" that continue to be nice to the buyer, so that when they total their trailers, they will come back to the same clown, that ill informed them to start with.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 11:43 AM   #42
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Thanks Randy.

One other question I had for folks that have these or are in the know. I see a class 5 that seems to be what I would be looking at, but then I saw the class 6 with a shock on it to limit what I think is the bounce. Any thoughts on the shock version vs the non-shock version?
On a lighter note....any takers to the question above?
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weight distribution hitches Reese Pullrite Equal-I-zer Blue Ox Hensley Air Ride markdoane Hitches, Couplers & Balls 2 09-04-2014 09:57 AM
Need a ride Tin Hut On The Road... 5 08-10-2007 10:49 PM
air ride hitch cadonnelly Hitches, Couplers & Balls 11 12-04-2005 12:01 PM
Air Ride hitch? maznblu Hitches, Couplers & Balls 1 10-10-2003 09:46 AM
Help on Hitches clown Hitches, Couplers & Balls 4 09-23-2003 03:31 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.