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09-09-2014, 08:25 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
santa fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
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2010 Touareg TDI to tow a 2012 25' Flying Cloud...
Talk about confusing!!! and so many thread with so little time….not to mention the various opinions on this….so here's my tale of woe and i can use all the help i can get.
i've got a 2010 TDI with fac installed towing package (non-air suspension) and now i want to tow a 25' Airstream with base weight of 5440 carry weight of 1760, for gvw of around 7200…should be no issue right?
well, what about TONGUE weight. the tongue on the A/S is around 850 and the T's max is either 616 or 770 depending on which sticker is on the receptacle.
i've researched for weeks on weight distribution hitches and i know about VW's warning against them, but what should i use to make up the between 80-234 pound tongue differential.?
any help would be appreciated.
btw, Can-Am says go with a w/d hitch but they FIRST reinforce the factory installed receptacle (without saying how they do that) and then use an EZ lift and that should work…any thoughts?
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09-09-2014, 08:31 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2014 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Chelsea
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transform
Talk about confusing!!! and so many thread with so little time….not to mention the various opinions on this….so here's my tale of woe and i can use all the help i can get.
i've got a 2010 TDI with fac installed towing package (non-air suspension) and now i want to tow a 25' Airstream with base weight of 5440 carry weight of 1760, for gvw of around 7200…should be no issue right?
well, what about TONGUE weight. the tongue on the A/S is around 850 and the T's max is either 616 or 770 depending on which sticker is on the receptacle.
i've researched for weeks on weight distribution hitches and i know about VW's warning against them, but what should i use to make up the between 80-234 pound tongue differential.?
any help would be appreciated.
btw, Can-Am says go with a w/d hitch but they FIRST reinforce the factory installed receptacle (without saying how they do that) and then use an EZ lift and that should work…any thoughts?
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I would trust CanAm on this. To reinforce your hitch they will probably weld some reinforcing steel. Stock OEM hitches (especially on light vehicles) are notoriously under-engineered. They are fine for hauling a small utility trailer or even an 18 foot fishing boat, but not suitable for towing a larger Airstream without some modifications. While you can tow the 25 footer with the Touareg, you will need to watch your payload in the tow vehicle and not overload it.
__________________
Bob Martel
WBCCI# 5766
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09-09-2014, 08:49 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Can-Am has the answer, reinforce the hitch.
A modern 25' Airstream has a hitch weight near as heavy as any of them. We make an effort to balance the load in the trailer before each trip, carry bicycles on an Airstream bike rack (which reduces hitch weight).
We have a rear bed 25, the front bed models have large storage areas in front so use extra extra care when loading.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-09-2014, 08:55 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2013 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2012 20' Flying Cloud
Small Town
, *** Big Sky Country ***Western Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Local VW dealer advised against the Touareg for our Int EB25 ... the VW warranty will not cover any issues related to towing since the hitch weight exceeds the recommendation by VW. YMMV with different dealers.
__________________
2015 25' Eddie Bauer Int'l FBQ / 2023 Ford Lightning ER
2022 Ford F350 6.2 V-8; equalizer hitch + Shocker air hitch
Honda Eu3200; AIR# 44105; formerly WBCCI 2015.1
Terminal Aluminitis; 2-people w/ 3+ dogs
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09-09-2014, 08:55 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
2011 23' FB Flying Cloud
Branson
, Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 734
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Yes, CanAm is THE expert on reinforcing OEM towing strength. I've read posts that state they can almost adapt any vehicle's towing shortcomings to make them more than capable of towing a heavy trailer.
I notice you're in Santa Fe, and suspect that you've a desire to travel to areas around you, which are full of pretty steep (and long) inclines.
BUT, I've never read a post that addresses CanAm's ability to modify other important components of your vehicle; the rear end and more importantly, the transmission.
I too, live in a region where uphill towing is a significant consideration and my previous combination was a 2010 MB GL450 towing an AS FC 23. Believe me, over a period of a year and a half, I noticed a change in the way the GL's transmission went from buttery smooth shifting, to one that was much less than smooth.
My advice to you is to consider not only the hitch, but the rest of your T'reg's capability.
Good luck!
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09-09-2014, 08:58 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2008 27' International FB
Petaluma
, California
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
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Here's a link to a guy that is a full timer and tows a 23 with a toureg. I've seen a lot of good comments about can am and it looks like a 25 footer and Toureg combo puts you in a position to require assistance.
[URL]http://whereiskylenow.com/about[\URL]
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
Looking for adventure in whatever comes our way.
- Brad
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09-09-2014, 09:02 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Of course VW would not bless the idea, but they didn't mind running an ad showing the Touareg towing a 747 aircraft. When going in for warranty work I wouldn't tell them I've been exceeding the speed limit, driving off-road, using cheap fuel, or using a weight distribution hitch.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-09-2014, 09:07 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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And when towing select the lower gear needed to keep from stressing and frequent gear hunting of your transmission.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-09-2014, 09:52 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2008 25' Classic
Full Time
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
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Tongue weight will be closer to 1100lbs from reading other posts on the forums. My 2008 Classic is slightly over 1100lbs but its the heaviest of the 25fb line.
Seems like a big hassle to get a Touareg ready tow. You'll have little to no payload left over once the trailer is hitched and two passengers from what others have said on the forums.
Kelvin
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09-09-2014, 10:09 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Kelvin, it's a one-time hassle for a vehicle that reportedly tows very well.
The payload is similar, sometimes more than most 1/2 ton trucks depending on which Touareg and which truck. Our Ram is 1360 and I think that's close to Touareg. Using a good weight distribution setup putting trailer tongue load across all truck and trailer axles, it's not hard (for us) to manage.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-09-2014, 10:42 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Payload for a Touareg is 1157# per VW USA website (less than a typical 1/2 ton pickups). Tongue weight of a 25 ft is over 1000#. Unlike exceeding the speed limit, driving off-road, using cheap fuel, or using a weight distribution hitch, you cannot hide a massive hitch reinforcement from your dealer. The good thing is you have a 2010, so you are almost out of warranty, so you may not care.
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09-09-2014, 11:54 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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That certainly puts it in the realm of a judgement call, six of one and half-dozen of the other. Our 25' tongue weight is only over 1000# when loaded that way or improperly weighed. When it is over 1,000# it exceeds the maximum weight recommended in Airstream Owners Manuals, which is routinely ignored.
It is not unusual to see new commonly-purchased 1/2 ton pickups less than the Touareg's 1157# payload.
Nonetheless, we are always aware of the payload capabilities of our 1/2 ton truck, load truck and trailer appropriately, and it has never been an obstacle to our travels. Most of us who use these vehicles are as well and they work very nicely, including this who use Touaregs.
As with any vehicle transferring heavy weight with a weight distributing hitch, the tow vehicle receiver and it's attachment must be capable of taking the applied torque, and when it's questionable needs reinforcement or replacement. It is generally accepted the Touareg TDI receiver needs reinforcement for a mid-size Airstream by those who use them.
Otherwise it's load capabilities are similar to a typical 1/2 ton truck, except it handles better mostly due to it's independent rear suspension giving it a wider, more stable stance and less axle weight to control.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-09-2014, 12:11 PM
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#13
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Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,151
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My 25' AS weighs 720lbs at the tongue. With the Hensley attached, it's 900lbs. The hitch transfers the weight even with air suspension. I have spent plenty of time at the truck scales and with a Sherline hitch scale dialing in the set-up. When I tow with the Touareg, only a full spare goes in the trunk - generator and other heavier gear goes in tubs in the trailer. I only tow with this when off-roading in the 4 corners area and traveling light. After 8 years towing, I personally can attest to their abilities and the hitch is still firmly attached. It is a very heavy duty hitch and actually also serves as a skid plate sliding down the slick rock in Moab.
But you will have to make your own decisions as to your comfort level with being at the max for hitch weight. If you do decide to go the CanAm route with additional bracing, you might wan to consider dumping the "tub" muffler on the Touareg and rerouting the exhaust so CanAm can run the bracing straight back as opposed to running it underneath the tub and reducing your ground clearance.
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
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09-09-2014, 12:24 PM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Fairbanks
, Alaska
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 268
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I keep reading about reinforcing hitches on these types of vehicles and have wondered about how this affects the safety of the vehicle in the event of rear end collision. There already seem to be studies that indicate that the addition of trailer hitch alone increase the risk of neck injury in a rear ender. I assume this would be due to the hitch reducing the effectiveness of the crumple zone at the rear of the vehicle. If this is so, how does adding bracing from the hitch forward to the vehicle structure affect the safety.
Note I am not trying to fan any flames and what you do is up to you. Just wondering if anyone has thought about this when they have had their hitch modified.
__________________
Rick
"When you find yourself in a hole - quit digging!"
2012 1/2 Eddie Bauer, 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 SWB 4x4 6.7L Cummins 68RFE
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09-09-2014, 02:01 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Crisen, I would think that IF and only IF adding a trailer hitch increases risk of neck injury, a stronger hitch of any kind would increase risk even more. Think of what a 1 ton truck hitch would do to your neck when slammed into.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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09-09-2014, 03:22 PM
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#16
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1 Rivet Member
santa fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
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mojo
are you saying you're using the hensley without reinforcing your factory installed receptacle?
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09-09-2014, 03:33 PM
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#17
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Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transform
mojo
are you saying you're using the hensley without reinforcing your factory installed receptacle?
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Yes, but I have the first generation Touareg.
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
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09-09-2014, 03:59 PM
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#18
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1 Rivet Member
santa fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
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mojo
thanks for that, but i didn't know there was a difference between your T and my 2010 T-TDI…can you elaborate?
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09-09-2014, 04:47 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisen
I keep reading about reinforcing hitches on these types of vehicles and have wondered about how this affects the safety of the vehicle in the event of rear end collision.
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I don't know for sure, but I can offer up a data point.
I installed a BMW OE hitch on an X5. E53 model. In some markets that vehicle is rated to tow 7700 lbs. In North America the hitch itself is rated 6000 lbs. There are many similarities between the Touareg and X5. For the X5, the OE hitch kit includes two beefy longitudinal struts that replace the collapsible rear bumper supports, a very sturdy receiver, and a new bumper carrier. The vehicle is a unibody. It is obvious when looking at the installation that the rear structure is now much stiffer. BMW is very focused on occupant safety, and the X5 was for many years rated as the safest SUV in its class. Not sure that applies to the current model. My conclusion from the above, though, is that if BMW factory-engineered a reinforced hitch they did so understanding any potential safety risks. I never about it.
My personal opinion is that with any stiffening restricted to being at hitch height the result may be override, not shock loading, unless the impacting vehicle is a snow plow, or has a reinforced impact zone at hitch height.
Jeff
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09-09-2014, 08:06 PM
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#20
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Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transform
mojo
thanks for that, but i didn't know there was a difference between your T and my 2010 T-TDI…can you elaborate?
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The biggest difference is that I have a V10 and you have a V6.
However, as Touaregs have progressed, VW has refined them more for on-road comfort and less for off-road and towing set up. This has showed up more recently in the the 3rd generation.
1st gen 2004-2007
2nd gen 2008-2010
3rd gen 2011-2014
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
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