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Old 07-18-2010, 10:30 PM   #29
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I will also mention that my clutch went out a few weeks ago, one thing you will notice is a lot of vibration, and also it will start grinding going into reverse, not always but usually it will. Mine did that before it finally let go.
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:05 AM   #30
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I don't know if you determined if you have a DMF or not, easy to do. Slide under truck remove sheet metal cover under flywheel, look for springs. Springs=DMF. If you see a solid cast iron F/W when you pull the cover, then all of this is for the next guy, not you.

If the vibration is coming from your Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) you should be able to diagnosis the problem a bit further.

Engine running, parking brake applied, slowly bring up the RPM, feel for vibration. Repeat with different RPM ramp up, feel for vibration. You can also try pushing the clutch pedal (in neutral) at variour RPM ranges to see if it affects the vibration.

This is only looking at the engine and DMF/Clutch as the source of vibration as you are always in N the drive train except for the trans input shaft is out of play, nothing is turning.

If the ball bearing that seperates the Secondary F/W from the Primary section of the F/W has failed then you have a 60+ Lb cast iron element that is not always concentric to the crankshaft = vibration. The erratic occourance may be due to the ball bearings moving around inside the races and the 60Lb assy is floating. Releasing the clutch (pedal down) allows the system to reposition itself slightly again contributing to the random report.

Let me know if you would like to see a picture of the engine side of a DMF or a shot of it's internals, it has a lot of parts in it.

Good luck.
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:09 AM   #31
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To help minimize confusion, the clutch industry uses the word CHATTER or SHUDDER or JUDDER to describe an erratic clutch engagement, for example, standing start select 1st gear clutch pedal coming up, truck starts to shake and movement is a bit uncontrolled. Also in REV but not present in 2-3 3-4 4-5 upshifts. Vibration, think of a tire out of balance, it just shakes and doesn't go away. Chatter is momentary and only during the engagement process.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:58 PM   #32
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Fly Wheel

Turns out that it was the fly wheel. For reasons that are lost on me, when the clutch was replaced a couple years ago the mechanic left the old dual mass fly wheel in place. I'm guessing there should be bearings all around there and not what I have. They got the new one in today, but I didnt get out of the shop before it turned out that the new throw out bearing was bad. Now we are into tomorrow before I get out.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:55 PM   #33
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I got rid of my DMF for that very reason JUNK!
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:01 AM   #34
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Boondocker,

Yup, that's the red X alright.

The DMF has a unique talent, it actually adds rotating mass directly to the transmission input shaft. By adding the mass to the pulsating input shaft, the trans is very quiet and all is well. FWIW the Ford DMF also has a torque limiting clutch inside of itself and can at later stages of its service life or at times when a video camera should be running slip internally and mimic a slipping clutch.

Release bearing noises, CAUTION. Identifying the exact cause of the noise needs carefull diagnostics to avoid un-necessary R&R.

Do you know what clutch type was re-installed? back to DMF or a solid flywheel conversion?

BTW, DMF's for Ford 7.3L's have been discontinued by their mfgr. for Ford.

If you had a solid f/w conversion installed, they can allow a bit more noise to be created in the trans than the properly functioning DMF did.

Can the noise be controlled from inside the cab, pedal up, down, in gear in N etc. important because lots of techs assume it's always the throw out bearing.

3 distinct sources of noise.
1. Throw out bearing always turning, always in cotact with the clutch, NO FREEPLAY anymore.
2. Pilot bearing in F/W. Active when engine is running, clutch released (pedal down) and trans in gear. Think waiting at a stoplight.
3. Transmission. Can be isolated from discussion by releasing (pedal down)the clutch and selecting a gear, truck stationary. Nothing in trans is moving at that time.

Good luck.
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:39 AM   #35
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The new fly wheel is a single piece. The noise was a screech with the truck setting still, in neutral, and controllable by pushing down the clutch peddle.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:01 AM   #36
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It never (expletive deleted) ends! The fly wheel is changed, and they are replacing the steering shaft due to a bad rag joint- add $600. Now they are telling me there is noise from the transmission (standard) although I am probably OK for now.

I have spent a ton of money on this truck in the last week and I have more fears than I did before. I wonder if I should get out now-not that I can buy even if I want to. What else should I be expecting to go on this thing in the near future? I need to find a mechanic who isnt going to take me apart one repair at a time.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:51 AM   #37
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Rodney,

I'm sorry that you are having problems and your shop has found additional problems.

I looked back at my previous reply to your thread and on 6/15 I mentioned the DMF as a source and a quick test to start the diagnosis.

Noises in the release bearing can be challenging to confim, no doubt, but it can be done. The big thing is not to ASSUME it is the release bearing, confirm to the best of your (technicians) ability.

Rodney, yes, replacing the DMF with a solid F/W can increase the noise the transmission makes.

Most guys would be looking back at the older 7.3L's and wishing they had the durability and reliability of those trucks.

Good luck.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:50 PM   #38
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I don't think I would bail on the truck now. Lets see, 200k, and you have now fixed most of what was wrong with it, all wear parts BTW.

My dad told me when I was young.. you can have new and make payments, or old and make repairs. That's life. BTW, the best way to handle the "make repairs" part is get the manual and a tool box. Nothing they have changed or serviced has an expensive special tool involved, but does have a book rate amount of labor involved.

and, while you have spent a "ton" of money this week on it, you didn't (I hope) make a payment on it, and next week it may cost you nothing, heck next month or even next year.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:59 PM   #39
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FWIW,

The pic in post #32, the statement about "bearings all around in there" has sorta puzzled me, but I believe I have it now.

The ball bearings should not be touching each other they are built seperated evenly by a seperator cage. That cage is gone and now all of the ball bearings can migrate where ever they want to, the secondary F/W and clutch are orbiting, not following the centerline of the crank, = vibration.

To our Duramax owners with manual transmissions, you have a varation of the DMF, but not made by the same company and for my Dodge brothers with the new (mid '05 or so) G56 6 speed you have a cousin of the Duramax DMF.

Happy trails.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:00 AM   #40
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Stick with it awhile. At some near future point: change all fluids, reline brakes, new shock absorbers. Some interior/exterior detailing. Good tires. Make it desirable. People buy based on images, and there are good resources online about how to photo vehicles.

Save for a 2004.0 305/555 ISB Cummins with a 6-speed behind it (or, 2003). If you can avoid 4WD you'll be miles ahead on money & maintenance. Avoid Ford diesels as there is no upside to owning one on a cents-per-mile basis (from purchase price to mpg to repairs/maintenance). Start reading auto-trader, now, to see values on yours, and what you want to buy.

There are those who will tell you that diesel trucks are all the same. They aren't (wishful thinking). If you can get a pre-emissions Cummins it will still outlast the rest and get better fuel mileage doing it while having cost the least to buy. The single repair mine has needed thru 168,000 miles is new u-joints. Tires & brakes last over 100,000. 23.2 mpg -- all miles -- the past 18,000 (no big trailer towing), with solo highs of 27 hwy (never less than 24), etc, etc. A pickup truck is an expensive vehicle new or used, so I drive for economy at all times, combine trips, and never rag on it. It has to "pay" it's own way.

Do more online research about current problems. Owners forums (once you peel away the kiddie hotrodders) are a great source for sorting the kind of problem you are having. A clean well-documented truck is highly desirable in the used market.

15 years or 250k is enough.

Good luck.

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