Which Truck for Classic

[m.hony]

I tow a 30' Classic with a Tundra.
Seems like GCVWR is about 16,900#.
Actual weight of my rig is 14,400#.
Towing capacity is advertised at 10,400#, but by SAE J2807 might really be 9,600#.
Trailer GVW is 10,000#
Trailer actual weight on trailer axles while coupled is 8,800#.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Gamehawkers

Bob, I noted a bit of sarcasm in your post.
Humor is good.
I believe the original post requested suggestions on pick up trucks not vans.
However in the interest of being helpful, I was looking for a van that had the necessary towing capacity and could not find any that could safely pull my 30 foot Classic over the Rockies .
Perhaps in your vast pool of automotive knowledge you can share which vans are currently rated to tow an 8,000 to 10,000 pound travel trailer?

Hi

The same magic 150/250/350/450 or 1500/2500/3500/4500 sequence that applies to trucks also applies to vans. Just like trucks, the further up the sequence you go, the harder they are to find on a dealer's lot. For the bigger vans you likely will have to find a dealer that does commercial sales. For the smaller ones, the same guy who sold you your truck likely is familiar enough with them to order one up.

Bob

[slowmover]

Not one of these little bitty trailers "requires" a diesel, much less a one ton size pickup.

OP, are you carrying 2000-lbs in the bed? Solo and towing?

Otherwise a half-ton is fine.

Slower up the grades is a meaningless "metric".

The "best" TV is one that best suits solo use, AND can tow the trailer.

The worst hitched rigs around here are those who buy a big honking TV and then haven't a clue about how to hitch it. That's the norm. 90%.

The axle/wheel/tire ratings are it for weight concerns. The rest is busywork. Doesn't contribute to rig stability or long term reliability.

Be more specific as to number of people and weight of gear. Don't guesstimate, go weight it.

.

[NardEngineer]

I have a 2016 F350 with the Diesel and I'm pulling a 30 foot classic slide out which puts me at 8800 lbs empty and a lot of torque weight due to the slide out being in front of the axles. AS stated by a number of people which company you pick for the TV there are differing opinions for sure on which vehicle is best. I can only say that the F350 can handle more torque weight then the F250 which is why I picked it. As for why I picked the Diesel very simply more power and with the clean burning systems out there you don't see the smoke or the black tail pipes any more. As I said having more power is great and mine pulls that 10,000 pounds like no ones business. Very very happy with the unit.

[pt.reyesfan]

I have a 2016 Classic and a 3500 Duramax.

After towing the Classic with our 5.7 liter Toyota Sequoia (2010, 50k miles) and our 8.1 liter Suburban 2500 (4.11 trans, 2004, 102k miles) I was not a happy camper on the steep uphills and steep downhills, especially the downhills. (We travel over the Rockies and the California Sierras often, and I never travel over 65 mph. I keep it at 45-55 mph on all the downhills.) I'm a downhill weenie. Brake fade and high engine revs raise my stress levels.

Both the Sequoia and Suburban could do it, but - in my humble opinion - they were at their margins of performance and safety-in-emergency-situations, and my ability to handle emergency situations. (I'm an old man.) If I was not fortunate enough to able to afford the 1 ton Duramax, I would still be using the Suburban 8.1 liter and driving a bit slower on the downhills and taking more breaks.

The engine brake on downhills is the main reason I went diesel. It really works!

I know a lot of folks are quite happy with their boosted super tow system 1/2 tons and their gasser 3/4 tons, and their large trailers, and that is fine. They are probably better drivers than me, and they probably have their hitch systems and brakes systems set up better than I do.

That's my story.
Ed

[Stews]

We have a 2016 Classic and bought a 2016 Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins diesel engine and it's great.

[pappy19]

Just to clarify the above; the Ford 6.0 was made from 2003- 2007, and not all of those engines had problems. That said, the bulletproof costs around $5,000, and once done makes for a very fine diesel engine, without all of the current urea liquid issues. The new diesel engines in all of the manufacturers, have their own problems with EPA required emissions. New gas engines have more HP and torque than the diesels had just a few years ago, and without any of the inherited issues with fuel, limp mode, etc.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Just to clarify the above; the Ford 6.0 was made from 2003- 2007, and not all of those engines had problems. That said, the bulletproof costs around $5,000, and once done makes for a very fine diesel engine, without all of the current urea liquid issues. The new diesel engines in all of the manufacturers, have their own problems with EPA required emissions. New gas engines have more HP and torque than the diesels had just a few years ago, and without any of the inherited issues with fuel, limp mode, etc.

Hi

I have a gas engine in my truck. That's fine with me. It has a lot of torque over a narrow range of RPM's. It's also got a lot of gears in the transmission. The equivalent diesel engine has a *much* broader torque curve. If I was hauling 2X or 3X the weight that I do ... that would matter to me. Maybe in a few years with the 10 speed (or maybe more) gear setups it would matter a bit less.

Bob

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Just to clarify the above; the Ford 6.0 was made from 2003- 2007, and not all of those engines had problems. That said, the bulletproof costs around $5,000, and once done makes for a very fine diesel engine, without all of the current urea liquid issues. The new diesel engines in all of the manufacturers, have their own problems with EPA required emissions. New gas engines have more HP and torque than the diesels had just a few years ago, and without any of the inherited issues with fuel, limp mode, etc.

And I know of several with transmission problems, they were a 3 speed with overdrive....they are the reason I switched to dodge with the cummins and I am very happy with them ....why spend $5000 on an obsolete engine that might work and it might not....maybe that was why Ford don't use it any more?

[alijamesm4]

2017 F250 diesel all the way. Just towed our 3 kids, wife, dog and stuff from NC to Nashville TN and back over Labor Day weekend and didn't even know our 30' FC was back there. Came around a downhill curve at 70mph to stopped traffic on the interstate and was able to stop safely and know that if we were in a half ton truck we would have been in an accident. It doesn't have to be a Ford but I would recommend a 3/4 ton diesel with engine brake.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by alijamesm4

2017 F250 diesel all the way. Just towed our 3 kids, wife, dog and stuff from NC to Nashville TN and back over Labor Day weekend and didn't even know our 30' FC was back there. Came around a downhill curve at 70mph to stopped traffic on the interstate and was able to stop safely and know that if we were in a half ton truck we would have been in an accident. It doesn't have to be a Ford but I would recommend a 3/4 ton diesel with engine brake.

Came across that same scenario twice on our way to Texas last year. My 1/2 ton stopped both times from 60 mph.
I think they'll all stop if the gain on the trailer brake controller is set properly and checked every time you start a trip so you know the trailer brakes are as good as they can be.
Although the entire rig at 14,400# won't stop on a dime and takes longer to stop than the truck with no trailer, with reasonable speed, following distance, and paying attention you'll be OK.
The brake rotors on the Tundra are huge- almost filling up the inside of the 20" wheels.
I did get new front brake pads in July.
Maintenance is part of the stopping distance equation.
The dealer service department checks the brakes every oil change, so I knew when to replace the brake pads. They fill out an inspection that includes a green/yellow/red graduated scale of brake pad condition as well as battery condition.
A good service department is part of the safety/roadworthy equation.
An owner who is aware of the condition of his vehicle is part of the equation.
Good tires is part of the equation. Got new Michelin tires in July.
If the truck is rated to tow it, the truck will stop it if the trailer brakes are set up and working properly.

[Countryboy59]

The other part of the equation is watching road conditions and traffic. Make sure if you come around a curve to stopped traffic you can stop whatever you are driving in time. "My truck wasn't big enough" is not gonna work if you plow into stopped traffic.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

The other part of the equation is watching road conditions and traffic. Make sure if you come around a curve to stopped traffic you can stop whatever you are driving in time. "My truck wasn't big enough" is not gonna work if you plow into stopped traffic.

That is what I meant when I said "paying attention".
Maintaining a safe following distance-
Not driving too fast-
Always remaining vigilant knowing what's in front of you, behind you, beside you, and over you-
Scanning all gauges and mirrors every few seconds- fuel, engine temperature, transmission temperature, charge, oil pressure, speed, rpm, trailer tire pressure and temperature-
It all goes together hand in hand.
Good habits make the experience enjoyable and safe, even with a 1/2 ton.
If you hit another in rear- rear end another- it is automatically your fault for failing to maintain control of your vehicle.
If I had been traveling any faster in those 2 scenarios on the way to Texas- 1 on I-20 and another on Texas 43- I would not have stopped in time.
If I had been following closer I would not have stopped in time.
I limit towing to 65 mph and maintain 6 seconds or more following distance for this reason.
The fact that I have as able to stop with no property damage and no injury proves these methods work.
65 mph max also increases fuel economy and decrease stress. We just roll merrily along enjoying the scenery while everyone else goes around us admiring our rig.

[pappy19]

Tjdonahoe, you are wrong about the Ford 6.0 transmission. All trannys before the 6.0, used the R4100, a 4 speed. The 6.0 began using the Torqushift 5 speed and had very few problems and is a stout transmission. Ford took all of the good components from the Allison and added improvements.

[graysailor]

2017 Ford F250 is working quite well for me. The 3/4 and 1 tons also provide more braking power which is probably more important then the power when accelerating.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Tjdonahoe, you are wrong about the Ford 6.0 transmission. All trannys before the 6.0, used the R4100, a 4 speed. The 6.0 began using the Torqushift 5 speed and had very few problems and is a stout transmission. Ford took all of the good components from the Allison and added improvements.

I know 2 people who bought new 6 liter fords, I drove one of them a bit, I told him it don't shift right...it didn't ford couldn't fix it ,6 mos old he traded for a chevy, same senecio on the other,only he was told we can't fix it, no parts available...go figure ,neither one shifted correctly...it had something to do with the computer....any wayI do not want one as I will stick with my dodge

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Not a big deal, but maybe worth mentioning. The F-250 / 350 gas engine versions have a pretty good engine brake on them. You don't *have* to go diesel just for braking. Yes, there's a lot more to the gas vs diesel conversation than braking ....

Bob

[slowmover]

The one ton sized don't have "more" braking. They won't stop any faster. Usually the other way round. The tire contact patch isn't significantly different betweeen the truck sizes.

The brake feel can be different.

Lack of being rigorous with hitch lash-up is the usual problem here: TT with more weight on its FF axle, and lack of WD tension not increasing TT axle overall weight.

It's the contribution of total overall braking force applied. Per wheel.

Done right, the rig stops as fast when hitched as when solo. Better, if you're genuinely savvy.

Lousy TT drum brakes are the looming problem.

The trailer brakes stop the trailer. Investigate this end of things. Increasing truck size without commensurate truck bed weight increase not otherwise justifying a model change is heading the wrong direction.

The choice of a pickup as TV is also that its bed capacity is a regularly-used feature when solo. If it isn't, a truck wasn't the right choice in the first place. As a vehicle it already has the worst handling, steering and braking. Worsening those factors with a model size increase means being even more vulnerable on the road.

.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

I know 2 people who bought new 6 liter fords, I drove one of them a bit, I told him it don't shift right...it didn't ford couldn't fix it ,6 mos old he traded for a chevy, same senecio on the other,only he was told we can't fix it, no parts available...go figure ,neither one shifted correctly...it had something to do with the computer....any wayI do not want one as I will stick with my dodge

If they did indeed shift wrong then the techs did not know what they were doing. The Torqueshift is a very good tranny and even the 4R100 will hold up well if properly cared for. Many 4R100 failures were due to insufficient cooling which is easily remedied with a bigger cooler. I know of several 7.3 4R100 combinations with over a million miles.
Every brand has it's faults, just ask my cousin about the injector that got stuck open on his Cummins at 80K and burned a hole in the piston, or how about those early Duramax injectors? Or the early Cummins fuel pumps?
I just try do do my research and try to sidestep the ones with major issues while at the same time getting what I want which is the comfort and durability of the Ford chassis.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

If they did indeed shift wrong then the techs did not know what they were doing. The Torqueshift is a very good tranny and even the 4R100 will hold up well if properly cared for. Many 4R100 failures were due to insufficient cooling which is easily remedied with a bigger cooler. I know of several 7.3 4R100 combinations with over a million miles.
Every brand has it's faults, just ask my cousin about the injector that got stuck open on his Cummins at 80K and burned a hole in the piston, or how about those early Duramax injectors? Or the early Cummins fuel pumps?
I just try do do my research and try to sidestep the ones with major issues while at the same time getting what I want which is the comfort and durability of the Ford chassis.

One was a factory Rep with a remote computer in use while driving...it don't matter, I don't want one..