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03-04-2007, 07:15 AM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
Surprise
, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 52
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Which Airstream for Lincoln Navigator?
We’re brand new, so we’d appreciate your advice. We’re about to buy a 25-foot, front-bedroom Safari, and we want to make sure our rig will be safe and fun to drive.
Our tow vehicle is a 2005 Lincoln Navigator with a 5.4L engine, a 6-speed transmission, and a “heavy duty” tow package. We’ll use an Equalizer hitch and a Prodigy brake controller. The owner’s manual says the car will tow 8,300 lbs, but the hitch says 8,900. The tongue weight is limited to about 900 lbs.
The trailer’s tongue weighs 720 lbs, the unloaded weight is 5,200, and the GVWR is 7,300…but with options that could increase to about 8,000.
We know the numbers add up okay, but we’re so close to the edge that we’re concerned. You’re the experts, so please give us your opinion. Will this rig be safe? Will we have adequate power to accelerate smoothly and handle mountain roads? Would we be smart to choose a smaller trailer…maybe the 20’ Safari?
Thanks for your help!
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03-04-2007, 07:22 AM
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#2
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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The 25' is really IMHO (and I am biased), the most comfortable "smaller" Airstream built. For us, it's like the 3 bears story, not to hot (big), not to cold (small), just right (at least for us in terms of size).
That said, I think your Navigator has a lot of what is needed to tow a 25', except wheel base. I've towed a 25' with a similar wheelbase and in wind conditions, the 25' tended to drive the car. Yes, it was a car, and it's GVWR was less than that of your Nav, but the principles are similar.
The bottom line is that the Nav will move a 25' and on flat land, no wind or emerg situations, tow it and most likely tow it fairly well. With my saftey cap on tight, I would say 23' without question (or smaller) your Nav could tow and tow well, but the 25' is the beginning of the wide body line and can push 7000lbs of the 7300GVWR max. Add fuel, cargo and passengers to the Nav and you are really pushing the max limits of what IMHO the Nav should be exposed to.
A lot of folks follow the 80% rule to some degree. That basically means that folks don't exceed the tow rating beyond 80% of the listed rating. That works well, unless you have a vehicle that has an inflated tow rating without the hardware to justify it, which isn't really the issue in your case with the current tow vehicle.
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03-04-2007, 07:36 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,190
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I would be concerned about the wheelbase
I would be afraid to tow with most of the SUVs because of the wheel base.
The trailer could push the rear of the tow vehicle into a jack knife. I have seen many jeep wranglers spin out in slippery conditions because of their short wheel base. Your scenario would work but I would really take it easy.
No wet roads, no quick stops on curved exit ramps, a fine tuned brake controller. It might not be worth the white knuckle factor.
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03-04-2007, 07:44 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Hernando
, Mississippi
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 759
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TL, We tow a new Safari 25'FB with an F150, crew cab...same engine/tow package that you have. Although the pickup has a slightly larger capacity than your Navigator (due to the bed vs the enclosure on the Nav), like you said the numbers work out. However the above advice is worth heeding. I do not tow on interstates - that's not what I bought the 'stream for. We stick to back roads and rarely exceed 60 MPH. I've done a few steep hills and have seen 38 mph! I've also done ten days to FL and back and easily did 60 mph with 14.25 mpg. IMHO, your rig will do it, just be careful and don't get in a hurry -- enjoy rural America! After all - that is why you bought it.
Rgds.
Scott
__________________
Rgds,
Scott
Air 16426
Fully retired now!
Remember:
Never start anything before noon and always plan on being finished by 5.
I will never HAVE to be anywhere ever again!
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03-04-2007, 07:57 AM
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#5
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Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,606
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TitusLivy ~ Welcome to the forums! Now that you have your Airstream, it's time to get out and enjoy it. The 4 Corners Unit is holding it 2nd rally at the end of this month. We are going to Tucson and we should have about a dozen trailers. Click on the link at the bottom of this post for more information......
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
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03-04-2007, 08:33 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Venice
, California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
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welcome to the forums!
i would say "no". yes it can physically tow it, however, considering up and down mountain passes, big rigs whipping by at 80mph, high cross winds, it would be a big no in my book. as some have already mentioned, the wheel base is too short.
many people have posted your exact question and end up buying another tow vehicle as they're a little easier to come by than our airstreams.
do a search and you'll find more info than you can read in a week.
__________________
david
*by asking the above question,
i verify that i have already used
the search feature to the best of my ability...
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03-04-2007, 08:42 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Currently Looking...
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,112
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I have an '03 Navigator with the tow package and hooked up our 2006 25' Safari FB/SE using an equalizer hitch. Drove it six miles, turned around and went back to a 3/4 ton crew cab truck for towing. It looked good on paper, but didn't work out in real life
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03-04-2007, 09:05 AM
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#8
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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You basicly have an F-150 with a different cab. The Explorer and the Ranger share the same frame. The Expedition/Navigator and the F-150 share the same frame. The Excursion and the F-250/350 share the same frame.
THe F-150 is border line at 8000 lbs you are at 96% capacity at 8300lbs rating and 90% at 8900lbs. Your trailer will weigh nearly a ton more than your TV. Make sure you use the boost setting on the prodigy. Be careful with this combination.
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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03-04-2007, 10:17 AM
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#9
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2 Rivet Member
Surprise
, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 52
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Thank you!
Thanks to everyone that posted comments! Based on your advice, we're going to pass on the 25-foot AS and look at a smaller model instead. So please watch for Ver 2.0 of our request for help! And in the meantime, thanks again for helping us to stay safe on the road!
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03-04-2007, 10:37 AM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
Surprise
, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 52
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Can our car really tow this trailer (Ver 2.0)?
Based on the excellent advice we received on this forum, we’ve decided not to buy a 25-foot AS. Can you please take a minute and let us know what you think of the following combination? Your advice will be appreciated!
Tow vehicle: 2005 Lincoln Navigator with a 5.4L engine, a 6-speed transmission, a “heavy duty” tow package, and a 119-inch wheelbase. This car is very similar to the Ford Excursion. We’ll use an Equalizer hitch and a Prodigy brake controller. The owner’s manual says the car will tow 8,300 lbs, but the hitch says 8,900. The tongue weight is limited to about 900 lbs.
We’re looking at the 20-foot AS: the overall length is 20’ 10”, the tongue weighs 600 lbs, the unloaded weight is 3,965, and the GVWR is 5,000.
You’re the experts, so please give us your opinion. Will this rig be safe? Will we have adequate power to accelerate smoothly and handle mountain roads?
Thanks for your help!
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03-04-2007, 10:42 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Venice
, California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 672
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de ja vu
that sounds like more of a possible match. with that said, you should also perform a search so you can understand all of the issues involved and why the combination would/would not work. a little homework goes a long way on this forum.
also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusLivy
You’re the experts, so please give us your opinion. Will this rig be safe? Will we have adequate power to accelerate smoothly and handle mountain roads?
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there may be "experts" on here (i'm not one of them) BUT YOU ARE THE ONE WOULD BE DRIVING the combination, so i wouldn't rely on any "experts" opinion until i did my own homework.
__________________
david
*by asking the above question,
i verify that i have already used
the search feature to the best of my ability...
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03-04-2007, 10:46 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
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In a word - yes. From the weights and specs you give, you are well withing a comfortable safety margin. I've towed more with less and felt very safe and stable. The terms you use - "accelerate smoothly" may need defining. It will do fine power wise in my opinion, but don't expect the acceleration of a diesel in the mountains.
You'll do fine with a 20' trailer.
BTW - I'm no "expert" either. But then, in most cases, I tend to shy away from people that proclaim themselves experts.
Dave
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03-04-2007, 10:56 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,190
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IMHO ( in my humble opinion )
Hi Tituslivy ( dunno your name )
I was one of the forum members who responded to your last post.
I have a 20' trailer. You should have no problem towing a 20'. It is widely
recommended that you don't exceed 80% of your towing capacity( you have to include the weight of passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle ).
As far choosing a trailer length.......Any trailer is too big on the road and too small at the campsite (LOL ). But we also have to consider your traveling
habits. A smaller trailer is better if you intend to use your trailer often like
I do. A larger trailer is better if you only use it a few times a year or it is going to be living all summer in one place. Family size also comes into play.
Sorry for stating the obvious ( and probli my spelling ) Dave
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03-04-2007, 11:16 AM
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#14
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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hi titus welcome to the forums...
-first don't make major buying decisions based on 2 short hours of online replies.
if this post were titled "towing with a lincoln navigator" MANY would chime in with experience over the next few days.
-second, starting several threads, all on the SAME tow vehicle isn't a great idea.
this is all one topic 'towing with a lincoln navigator' and what model/length trailers are matched with this suv.
-third, hitch choice matters too. while the nav doesn't have a long wheel base, using a hensley hitch WILL improve handling significantly
so read about the hitch choices too.
-fourth, read some of the many threads here already posted on this topic.
great, long, complete and USEFUL answers have already been typed. they apply to your situation, but you need to find them....
so search navigator or look at the towing threads or the 25 ft trailer threads.
robertsunrus? tows with a navigator and is very happy.
many folks tow with the f-150 ford/lincoln truck matched to a 25 and are also happy.
there is no question a 3/4 ton tv improves the towing experience.
engine, tranny, wheel base, capacity, tires, hitch type, gear, destination, usage and several other issues all must be considered.
again welcome and have fun shopping.
IF you really really like the 25 foot size and plan to use your trailer much,
GET THE TRAILER YOU LOVE, and sort out the tv upgrade or mods that will work best.
buy a trailer smaller than you really want/need and next year you will be buying again x2 (trailer and tv)
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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03-04-2007, 11:50 AM
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#15
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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i see you care about safety, acceleration and so on...
moving from a double axle trailer to a single axle trailer introduces other issues....
most comparisons suggest 2 axles improve the towing experience and IF one tire goes flat the effect isn't as dramatic.
backing up a single is different, tires and brakes matter and so on...
practical issues like 'will it fit in the driveway?' also matter.
so again i suggest choosing the trailer that you really really love.
then make the tv, hitch, controller, brakes and driver safe for the travel experience.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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03-04-2007, 12:15 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Blaine
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 291
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Now I'm confused. First, options can't increase the GVWR. The Gross Vechicle Rate Rating always stays the same. The options will increase the dry weight from the stated 5200 lbs. to maybe to 5500. Add your stuff and water and you will probably top out at 6500 lbs. Full fresh water tank and water heater will add about 380 lbs. Let's be safe and say 7000lbs. The Navigator will tow 8300. You have at least a 16% difference. Not the recommended 20% stated elsewhere but close. Before I down sized my trailer I would certainly get more info. from people who have actual experience with this set up. Do a search as recommended above.
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03-04-2007, 01:01 PM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Blaine
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 291
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Correction to above post. You will be at 19% not 16%.
John
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03-04-2007, 01:06 PM
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#18
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
.
, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Accessories will reduce NCC. So, if the unloaded base weight is 5k and you add 500lbs in accessories, you'd add 500lbs to the gross unloaded weight, so you then have a coach that is 5500lbs gross unloaded weight, then added water, LP provisions, etc. You are totally right, accessories don't increase GVWR ratings of the RV. They do however have an impact on the overall weight which has a direct impact on the tow vehicle.
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03-04-2007, 10:07 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis4x4
I have an '03 Navigator with the tow package and hooked up our 2006 25' Safari FB/SE using an equalizer hitch. Drove it six miles, turned around and went back to a 3/4 ton crew cab truck for towing. It looked good on paper, but didn't work out in real life
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Hi, just for the record; I have a 2000 Lincoln Navigator, tow capacity 8,900 lbs, with an Equal-i-zer hitch connected to a 2005 Safari 25-B [6300 lbs GVWR] and have gone "Six Thousand Miles". I have been up mountains and down mountains with no problems of any kind. I also have been in wind storms that made SOB's swing from lane to lane while our set-up only moved about two inches side to side. My wife wondered if those SOB owner/drivers were drunk or just bad drivers. When we stopped at the next rest stop and got out of our Lincoln, the wind almost blew us off of our feet. That said, my Lincoln/Safari set up works and handles great. This is true life experience, not just an opinion.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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03-05-2007, 04:56 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2019 22' Sport
High River
, Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,176
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While many people believe strongly in the "wheelbase rule", there are many examples of shorter wheelbase vehicles towing longer trailers without sway problems. And if there are problems, there are solutions. A careful hitch setup by knowledgeable people (most dealers don't count btw, but there are people on this forum with lots of first hand experience) is the first step. Lots of folks like the Equal-i-zer Hitch, and if this is not sufficient, a Hensley Arrow will do the job. The Hensley is expensive, but it will only be 3 or 4% of the total cost of the combination you're going to have.
Also, a switch to narrow LT tires often helps, not because the tires on the Navigator would lack carrying capacity, but because LT tires have stiffer sidewalls and more effectively resist the lateral forces imposed by the trailer.
Airstreams are very towable, and the new Navigator has a strong engine with well-chosen gear ratios. First gear is very low, for easy starting, and I think the overall performance would be very good. The weight you are looking at should not pose problems, unless you are hoping to climb 7% grades with the cruise control set at 65 mph.
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