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Old 03-04-2007, 12:50 PM   #15
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i see you care about safety, acceleration and so on...

moving from a double axle trailer to a single axle trailer introduces other issues....

most comparisons suggest 2 axles improve the towing experience and IF one tire goes flat the effect isn't as dramatic.

backing up a single is different, tires and brakes matter and so on...

practical issues like 'will it fit in the driveway?' also matter.

so again i suggest choosing the trailer that you really really love.

then make the tv, hitch, controller, brakes and driver safe for the travel experience.

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:15 PM   #16
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Now I'm confused. First, options can't increase the GVWR. The Gross Vechicle Rate Rating always stays the same. The options will increase the dry weight from the stated 5200 lbs. to maybe to 5500. Add your stuff and water and you will probably top out at 6500 lbs. Full fresh water tank and water heater will add about 380 lbs. Let's be safe and say 7000lbs. The Navigator will tow 8300. You have at least a 16% difference. Not the recommended 20% stated elsewhere but close. Before I down sized my trailer I would certainly get more info. from people who have actual experience with this set up. Do a search as recommended above.
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:01 PM   #17
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Correction to above post. You will be at 19% not 16%.

John
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:06 PM   #18
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Accessories will reduce NCC. So, if the unloaded base weight is 5k and you add 500lbs in accessories, you'd add 500lbs to the gross unloaded weight, so you then have a coach that is 5500lbs gross unloaded weight, then added water, LP provisions, etc. You are totally right, accessories don't increase GVWR ratings of the RV. They do however have an impact on the overall weight which has a direct impact on the tow vehicle.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis4x4
I have an '03 Navigator with the tow package and hooked up our 2006 25' Safari FB/SE using an equalizer hitch. Drove it six miles, turned around and went back to a 3/4 ton crew cab truck for towing. It looked good on paper, but didn't work out in real life
Hi, just for the record; I have a 2000 Lincoln Navigator, tow capacity 8,900 lbs, with an Equal-i-zer hitch connected to a 2005 Safari 25-B [6300 lbs GVWR] and have gone "Six Thousand Miles". I have been up mountains and down mountains with no problems of any kind. I also have been in wind storms that made SOB's swing from lane to lane while our set-up only moved about two inches side to side. My wife wondered if those SOB owner/drivers were drunk or just bad drivers. When we stopped at the next rest stop and got out of our Lincoln, the wind almost blew us off of our feet. That said, my Lincoln/Safari set up works and handles great. This is true life experience, not just an opinion.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:56 AM   #20
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While many people believe strongly in the "wheelbase rule", there are many examples of shorter wheelbase vehicles towing longer trailers without sway problems. And if there are problems, there are solutions. A careful hitch setup by knowledgeable people (most dealers don't count btw, but there are people on this forum with lots of first hand experience) is the first step. Lots of folks like the Equal-i-zer Hitch, and if this is not sufficient, a Hensley Arrow will do the job. The Hensley is expensive, but it will only be 3 or 4% of the total cost of the combination you're going to have.

Also, a switch to narrow LT tires often helps, not because the tires on the Navigator would lack carrying capacity, but because LT tires have stiffer sidewalls and more effectively resist the lateral forces imposed by the trailer.

Airstreams are very towable, and the new Navigator has a strong engine with well-chosen gear ratios. First gear is very low, for easy starting, and I think the overall performance would be very good. The weight you are looking at should not pose problems, unless you are hoping to climb 7% grades with the cruise control set at 65 mph.
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:40 AM   #21
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Thank you!

Thanks to everyone who's posted on this topic. Your advice has been really helpful! I guess we'll continue to scratch our heads while we absorb your comments and educate ourselves. Any additional opinions on this topic will be appreciated!

Titus
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis4x4
I have an '03 Navigator with the tow package and hooked up our 2006 25' Safari FB/SE using an equalizer hitch. Drove it six miles, turned around and went back to a 3/4 ton crew cab truck for towing. It looked good on paper, but didn't work out in real life
That kind of sums it up for you...straight from the horsey so to speak!
You may also take a look at this post I made a while back...
http://www.airforums.com/forum...tml#post313803

Bill
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:17 PM   #23
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While many people believe strongly in the "wheelbase rule", there are many examples of shorter wheelbase vehicles towing longer trailers without sway problems.
Without a doubt Albert. There are many short wheelbased TV's and combinations that come to mind that are outstanding performers both in straight line stability, and in an emergency avoidance maneuvering. Towing dynamics is a complex subject and judging a combinations towing prowess based on one characteristic is rather pointless.
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:30 PM   #24
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Obviously, folks can and do often do what they feel is right. I think there is a stronger case for following the wheelbase and 20% rules that have been discussed.

I always find it interesting at the wide difference between a Canadian tower and an American tower. Either we are way too gung ho or the Canadians are too soft, I haven't figured that one out yet, even after all these years, but I'm starting to think it's a bit of both.
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:02 PM   #25
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Well I'll chime in here. I think that with the Navigator you will get passed on hills a lot. I have an F 250 with a 460 gas engine, while I can do 60-70 mph uphill, towing, I take a huge hit on mpg's while doing so. You will have to take it easy on long steep hills. Like catsandI said, it is based on an f 150. With a good hitch and brake contoller you will probably be ok with a 25, but you will feel more comfortible with a 23 or smaller. Ford has a pretty good product in general if you take the appropriate steps in outfitting your vehicle with the proper equipment for towing, transmission cooler and temp guage, weight distributing hitch, brake controller, and drive accordingly. The Navigator does have a short wheelbase so take that into account.

Just my .02
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Old 03-07-2007, 12:07 AM   #26
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Well I'll chime in here. I think that with the Navigator you will get passed on hills a lot. I have an F 250 with a 460 gas engine, while I can do 60-70 mph uphill, towing, I take a huge hit on mpg's while doing so. You will have to take it easy on long steep hills. Like catsandI said, it is based on an f 150. With a good hitch and brake contoller you will probably be ok with a 25, but you will feel more comfortible with a 23 or smaller. Ford has a pretty good product in general if you take the appropriate steps in outfitting your vehicle with the proper equipment for towing, transmission cooler and temp guage, weight distributing hitch, brake controller, and drive accordingly. The Navigator does have a short wheelbase so take that into account.

Just my .02
Hi, once again, I will have to disagree. I have maintained speeds of 55 to 60 MPH up hills with my Navigator versus 60 to 70 MPH for your 460 V-8 F-250 towing a much lighter 17' trailer. I haven't had that getting passed by everyone experience. And yes my Navigator is based on a F-150, but so are all of the earlier Ford F-250's and F-350's built before Ford came out with the "Super Duties" Possibly includeing your F-250.
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Old 03-07-2007, 07:52 AM   #27
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Try it out

Try before you buy, The seller should help you hook up and go for a test drive. The 25 is a really nice trailer so you might consider getting a diffrent T/V.
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, once again, I will have to disagree. I have maintained speeds of 55 to 60 MPH up hills with my Navigator versus 60 to 70 MPH for your 460 V-8 F-250 towing a much lighter 17' trailer. I haven't had that getting passed by everyone experience. And yes my Navigator is based on a F-150, but so are all of the earlier Ford F-250's and F-350's built before Ford came out with the "Super Duties" Possibly including your F-250.
Hi, In rebuttal, IF I had a larger trailer I wouldn't fly up hill at 50 or above. The harder you push your vehicle the shorter lifespan it will have. The E4OD that is bolted to my 460 is a good trans. if you keep it maintained and treat it well, it'll last a long time. If you abuse it, it will fail, its the nature of the beast. They are only good for about 100K after that you are on borrowed time.

I didn't say everyone, I said "a lot", that means by all vehicles.

Sure you can tow anything you want behind a Navigator or any other vehicle you want for that matter. The more you ask it to do the shorter its lifespan gets. It ain't rocket science.

You haven't looked under an F 150 vs a F 250 or 350 recently have you. You'll notice that they have distinctly different running gear. Even though they have the same frame rails. Even in the 90's the running gear was vastly different from the 150's to the 250's and above. I had the recent experience to compare side by side my F 250 to my uncle's F 350. Same body style, same engine, but, entirely different running gear. Rear axle was the same but the front axle was different as where the suspension components. It even rides completley different.

The Nav. has a softer suspension, and that means that you'll need a good hitch system. Whatever that may be, Hensley, EZ lift or Reese.

I wasn't bashing the Navigator. It is a nice comfy tow-vehicle. Hell, if I still had my Lincoln Continental, I would tow with it, just like Bill Kerfoot.

Just keep in mind what you ask it to do. That will determine how long it will last which is dependant on how good your maintenance is.

It is a numbers game.

When will you be ready to get a new TV ?

Do you want to upgrade your original TV to be able to withstand what you ask it to do ?

Are you going to be pulling 12 mile long 6% or 7% grades with it in the heat of summer ?

These are all valid questions.

For example : the grade to Frenchglen, OR from the south is 14%.

It all depends on what YOU want to do with your towvehicle.

And what you are comfortible with.

To back all this up, I am a truck driver and have been pulling doubles and triples all over the NW. I will cross the million mile mark this year at my job. I have seen what is on the side of the road over heating, etc. It is pretty rare to see any ford product pulled to the side.

I have never seen a Navigator pulled to the side with any problems. It is usually an older chev or dodge. But then, most people don't pull with Navigators. That is just what I have seen on the road.

So before you start bashing me on my comments, take a moment to think.

What do these folks want to do with their TV and 25 Ft. Trailer ?

Do they want to tow on primarily flat ground ? or do they want to pull these super steep grades into Yellowstone or Glacier Park for example ?

And how much stuff are they going to put in it ? how much extra weight does it add ?

The bottom line is, think about where you want to go, how many times you want to go there, how many passes you have to cross, and how much weight you want to pull with the towvehicle you have. Is it up to the task ? Have you upgraded it ? Have you maintained it well ? Be honest with yourself. If you have been lax in maintenance, well get on it, then tow away.

All I wish is for everyone to have a good towing experience with what they choose to drive as a towvehicle. Most all the current SUV's and light trucks can do the job if outfitted correctly.

That is my $10.25
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