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01-10-2020, 03:35 AM
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#561
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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EV's are mostly toys at this point. You can buy an ICE at the same level of luxury for about half the price. Both will get you from point A to point B as advertised so why spend all that extra money? You will never get it back in fuel savings. The answer is that some people enjoy the novelty (toy value). Another reason is status. I know a politician who just bought a Tesla because she wanted to present herself as being Green. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy something for its toy value or status but let's recognize it for what it is, or isn't. It isn't economical, not at this point in time.
The future may well be in EVs but I think this will come in the form of self drive Ubers around 2050.
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01-10-2020, 05:23 AM
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#562
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
EV's are mostly toys at this point. You can buy an ICE at the same level of luxury for about half the price. Both will get you from point A to point B as advertised so why spend all that extra money? You will never get it back in fuel savings. The answer is that some people enjoy the novelty (toy value). Another reason is status. I know a politician who just bought a Tesla because she wanted to present herself as being Green. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy something for its toy value or status but let's recognize it for what it is, or isn't. It isn't economical, not at this point in time.
The future may well be in EVs but I think this will come in the form of self drive Ubers around 2050.
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How about we just let people buy what they want without implying anything from it? I like Harleys, you might think they suck or are antiquated but guess what? I don’t care. There’s a guy here with a Tesla who couldn’t care less about the environment, also rides a Harley, drives a diesel, and goes hunting every fall. A Model 3 costs the same as a nice Lexus so “half the cost” is pure BS. And I bet the politician mentioned above never actually said anything about being “green”.
The last sentence quoted above about Ubers and 2050 shows a complete lack of knowledge of what the OEMs here and abroad are actually working on. There’s nothing wrong with saying “I don’t know”.
This thread reminds me of a bunch of retired people in a Hamtramck bar arguing over a few PBRs.
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01-10-2020, 05:40 AM
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#563
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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I'm actually looking at getting a Rivian. A waste of money for sure but major toy value. No I'm not doing it to save the environment. I'm one of those people who realize we need more carbon in the atmosphere, not less, if life on earth is to continue.
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01-10-2020, 07:30 AM
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#564
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Dazed and Confused
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
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Out of sight is just a troll.
A complete waste of time responding to him.
I have moved his posts to ignore, and can't see them, as I don't argue with fools.
Cheers
Sidekick Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.
“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
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01-10-2020, 07:48 AM
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#565
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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You can always tell when you're winning an argument when the other side runs out of substantive replies and begins hurling insults.
Anyway, the Rivian looks better than the Cybertruck. It seems to have more creature comforts. Neither is much of a tow vehicle because of the limited range but it could have some limited tow value if you just need it to shuttle your trailer around town or to a local campground.
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01-10-2020, 09:25 AM
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#566
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Rivet Master
1964 26' Overlander
1974 31' Sovereign
Milton
, ON
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping
When there is a way for me to wander the Mojave for a week without hook ups for a week at a time like I do now with an electric truck.
Then I will consider them. Until then. They do not meet my needs.
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I don't think that's a problem for the future of electric vehicles. EVs will first be adopted by drivers/companies where it makes sense to do so now. As the technology improves EVs will suit the needs of more people, and at some point either laws, the cost of petroleum fuels or the lack of availability of ICE vehicles will take care of the rest.
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01-10-2020, 06:21 PM
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#567
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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Gasoline will never disappear. It's need to fuel those on obnoxious leaf blowers that seem to run non-stop in every neighborhood across the country.
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01-11-2020, 07:11 AM
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#568
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach
, Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
Gasoline will never disappear. It's need to fuel those on obnoxious leaf blowers that seem to run non-stop in every neighborhood across the country.
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LOL another worthless prediction. I have converted my entire lawn care equipment to fully electric. I have a nice EGO lawnmower, and B&D lithium powered trimmers, edgers, and LEAFBLOWER and other tools. I charge all from Solar sources. I have a GZ Yeti 1000 that is portable and can charge all of the above on a single charge. I charge the Yeti with spare solar panels (up to 560W) in a matter of hours. I am working on a prototype lawn maintenance cargo van with all of the above that I may put into business with some neighborhood kids (imagine that) next summer. 100% Green and the real advantage, QUIET!
BTW, my 11.5 KW Solar Array on my house is generating an excess of 10-12 KWhs daily which I will carry over into the hot summer months. I was not only break even last year, I managed to bank a nice reserve should it ever decide to turn cold here in North Florida... It's been unusually warm this year.
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01-11-2020, 09:35 AM
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#569
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4 Rivet Member
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
Eugene
, Oregon
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 446
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Tomzstream...very cool you are enjoying all the lithium battery powered devices and solar panels on your house. Fantastic!
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01-11-2020, 10:45 AM
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#570
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Rivet Master
2019 19' Flying Cloud
Renville
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 510
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As a Minnesota resident currently in the midwinter, I have wondered what effect heating the cabin has on range of electric cars/trucks.
__________________
I currently camp in a 19’ Flying Cloud towed by a Nissan Frontier.
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01-11-2020, 12:02 PM
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#571
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Dazed and Confused
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrangler
As a Minnesota resident currently in the midwinter, I have wondered what effect heating the cabin has on range of electric cars/trucks.
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Any electrical draw will affect range; but advancements in thermal heating capacitors may help mitigate this draw back.
Thermal heating capacitors could draw heat from your braking, heat from braking would then be transfered to a super conducting fluid, that could retain the heat for hours. The fluid would be pumped through a heat exchanger in the cabin, just like the cooling system currently in your car.
Cheers
Sidekick Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.
“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
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01-12-2020, 04:47 AM
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#572
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2 Rivet Member
2006 23' Safari SE
Amherst
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrangler
As a Minnesota resident currently in the midwinter, I have wondered what effect heating the cabin has on range of electric cars/trucks.
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Some electric vehicles use heat pumps in addition to resistive heaters. That can significantly cut the energy required, to about a third if I remember correctly. If it’s really cold they do need to use resistance and that’s as bad as you expect.
Since the heat needed is more a function of time than range the effect of heating on range will be worse the slower you go. Even with NH winters the Tesla owner I talked to said the heater use didn’t make much dent on his range.
__________________
2006 Safari 23 LE
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01-12-2020, 06:18 AM
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#573
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3 Rivet Member
1989 32' Excella
Sharon Springs
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59
How about we just let people buy what they want without implying anything from it? I like Harleys, you might think they suck or are antiquated but guess what? I don’t care. There’s a guy here with a Tesla who couldn’t care less about the environment, also rides a Harley, drives a diesel, and goes hunting every fall. A Model 3 costs the same as a nice Lexus so “half the cost” is pure BS. And I bet the politician mentioned above never actually said anything about being “green”.
The last sentence quoted above about Ubers and 2050 shows a complete lack of knowledge of what the OEMs here and abroad are actually working on. There’s nothing wrong with saying “I don’t know”.
This thread reminds me of a bunch of retired people in a Hamtramck bar arguing over a few PBRs.
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Lol, while your on your own high horse, how about those new electric Harleys!! It might match your keyboard warrior/wild hog attitude!! EVs have been around for over 100yrs and for most they will be a novelty for some time. Government folks are already planning surcharges for EV owners to make up for lost fuel tax revenue (gas/diesel), so if it makes YOU feel good, buy one. Just remember your not going to save the World. Since much smarter people than I have told us that we only have 10-12 years left to live anyways, drink the schnapps and enjoy the ride on whatever you want. Have a great day!!
R & W Forever
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01-12-2020, 07:12 AM
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#574
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach
, Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 586
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Most of the EVs I have looked at recently have Pre-Conditioning (Heat or AC) that you can activate while the car is still plugged in, and presumably in your garage. I imagine it works as well while plugged into a public charging station, but I do not know. Nothing like hopping into a pre-cooled, or pre-heated car, and while Northerners like their remote start functions for the same, it does burn a lot of fuel.
The biggest complaint I have against most of the EVs is their glass roofs... a non-starter here in Florida. Tesla, I-Pace (now has a flimsy clip-in cover), and others all have this greenhouse roof. Looks futuristic, yes, but is dumb in practice. Only the E-Tron had an actual retractable shade. And even with an interior shade, that class is still a good conductor of heat/cold. I know they are working on insulated glass but the EV makers hate to add weight, probably the reason for using glass to begin with. My new GLS450 has the Acoustic Comfort package with insulated glass, and it is very quiet and supposedly cooler in the summer. We went with a normal sunroof too, to avoid the panorama roof that picks up so much heat in the summer. My wife has it in her E350 wagon and even with the shade it's hot! I have resorted to putting a roof box on in the summer to create portable shade!
Not sure if MB offers the insulated glass on the Sprinter, but I am sure it would be a welcome addition to the Interstate. Biggest complaint I had about my RT CS was it got so awful hot sitting in the sun.
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01-12-2020, 09:14 AM
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#575
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomzstream
. . .
. . . My wife has it in her E350 wagon and even with the shade it's hot! I have resorted to putting a roof box on in the summer to create portable shade!
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Vantastic!
Peter
[Ford Transit 350 TV]
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01-12-2020, 10:59 AM
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#576
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4 Rivet Member
2017 22' Sport
North Bay
, California
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
You can always tell when you're winning an argument when the other side runs out of substantive replies and begins hurling insults.
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Or when the opponent never learns from information given and continues to give their opinion as fact, despite being incorrect. That’s when it’s clear the argument isn’t winnable, because one participant isn’t discussing in good faith.
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01-12-2020, 01:42 PM
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#577
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Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,636
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When to go electric for a tow vehicle
When it makes sense to me.
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01-12-2020, 01:54 PM
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#578
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4 Rivet Member
2018 30' Classic
Williamsburg
, VA
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 331
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I'll consider them when I can go 500 miles comfortable with the AS between charges. Until then it doesn't meet my needs. Electric vehicle tend to decrease the range by 2/3 when loaded so it would need to be able to go 1500 miles unloaded. There needs to be a major breakthrough in battery or other storage option for that to happen. I am open to it though.
Before I bought my XT4 I considered an e-tron. I would save $1k per year on fuel, however my insurance would have been $1k higher so it was a wash on costs, but the ability to acquire more fuel for the ICE made it an easy choice. My family and I easily and often travel 9 hours per day on vacations. Don't have time to wait for recharging. In fact in my diesel Audi Q5 we only have to fill up once going from Virginia to Missouri. Can't beat that. We make excellent time stopping once per day.
__________________
2018 Classic 30
2012 F250 6.7l
US Army Watercraft Engineering Officer
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01-12-2020, 02:03 PM
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#579
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Rivet Master
2020 30' Classic
Frederick
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primepower
I'll consider them when I can go 500 miles comfortable with the AS between charges. Until then it doesn't meet my needs. Electric vehicle tend to decrease the range by 2/3 when loaded so it would need to be able to go 1500 miles unloaded. There needs to be a major breakthrough in battery or other storage option for that to happen. I am open to it though.
Before I bought my XT4 I considered an e-tron. I would save $1k per year on fuel, however my insurance would have been $1k higher so it was a wash on costs, but the ability to acquire more fuel for the ICE made it an easy choice. My family and I easily and often travel 9 hours per day on vacations. Don't have time to wait for recharging. In fact in my diesel Audi Q5 we only have to fill up once going from Virginia to Missouri. Can't beat that. We make excellent time stopping once per day.
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Interesting. Heck, my diesel Ford only goes right about 400 miles (under optimum conditions) with my AS on the back before I have to fill it up. You have pretty stringent requirements.
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01-12-2020, 02:09 PM
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#580
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4 Rivet Member
2018 30' Classic
Williamsburg
, VA
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 331
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I have a 50 gallon titan tank installed and get get about 13.5 mpg. Plus I can fill up in about 10 minutes. At this point it takes much longer to recharge for equivalent mileage. Not that equivalent mileage currently exists.
I can drive from Virginia to Florida pulling the AS in one day with my current setup. EV's just aren't there yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew
Interesting. Heck, my diesel Ford only goes right about 400 miles (under optimum conditions) with my AS on the back before I have to fill it up. You have pretty stringent requirements.
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__________________
2018 Classic 30
2012 F250 6.7l
US Army Watercraft Engineering Officer
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