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Buttercup · 06-10-2005, 01:38 AM

Now that I MUST agree with! Especially because we have a 77 Overlander. We do have a secret wish to tow with a vintage vehicle.

PizzaChop · 06-10-2005, 07:02 AM

Having just returned from my second camping trip to Florida in six months (850 miles round trip each time), I'll add my $.02.

My 2001 E-350 SuperDuty 7.3 powerstroke has been a GREAT tow vehicle! With a 4" exhaust, AFE air filters, and mild performance chip, it averaged 14 mpg on interstate @ 60 mph and almost never came out of overdrive (towing a 6000 lb loaded Overlander as well as 9 bodies...most of them admittedly small). It just has so much torque!!

We replaced our 1999 E-350 SuperDuty 5.4 gas a few months after entering the "Airstream" world last year, and I am glad I convinced my wife to do so. (I wasn't so sure myself either.) Every time I tow, it just puts a bigger smile on my face.

Yes diesels are expensive. Yes, they're a bit loud. Yes diesel fuel costs more than gas. Yes, they last longer. Yes, they have more torque. Yes they get better mileage (generally). Yes, they have higher resale value.

Admittedly, as a grocery getter, it might be a bit overkill. (Although it works well there, too, and averages about 17 mpg all around.) But as a tow vehicle, it is priceless!!

overlander63 · 06-10-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '63 princess

I was definitely headed in the direction of buying a Ford F250, but read Kevin's excerpts about the Suburban. Now I'm torn. For anyone who is reading this string of notes, here is the link for the Lincoln I'm thinking about buying: http://www.musclecars-and-classics.c..._Lincoln_1.htm

As you can tell, I'm all over the place right now; just want to get my BABY HOME!!!!!!! (Which involves 1800 miles-- 200 through the Appalachian Mtns.) <gulp>

I know you want a vintage tow vehicle, but remember, they are old, and in most cases, act their age. I would go with a newer tow vehicle, just so you won't have the issue of having to find parts for an antique car while trying to tow cross-country. A vintage tow vehicle may be good for local use, as in local rallys, etc, but in most cases, newer is better, as far as reliability and parts availability is concerned.
We recently went to the Appalachians to get our Overlander. We have a 3/4 ton van, with a 350 engine, it really had to work going up some of those hills. I would not want to try it with a vintage car.

wkerfoot · 06-10-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander63

I know you want a vintage tow vehicle, but remember, they are old, and in most cases, act their age. I would go with a newer tow vehicle, just so you won't have the issue of having to find parts for an antique car while trying to tow cross-country. A vintage tow vehicle may be good for local use, as in local rallys, etc, but in most cases, newer is better, as far as reliability and parts availability is concerned.
We recently went to the Appalachians to get our Overlander. We have a 3/4 ton van, with a 350 engine, it really had to work going up some of those hills. I would not want to try it with a vintage car.

My 460CI will beat your 350 any day. Parts availability has not been a problem, although not many dealers know what a carb is. The 460 was used in trucks for many years after 1977, the C6 trans is bullet proof and the Ford 9" rear axle is the choice for many hot rods. There is a thriving business for parts for the old Lincolns and for many other makes.

It takes a lot of repairs to equal the 30 to 40K for a new truck, the only tow vehicle available now, and my Lincoln rides better than any truck and is much easier to get in and out of.

We are headed out to Tampa on June 18 with the Lincoln to pick up a 1954 Liner and tow it back to So Cal for restoration.

Bill

overlander63 · 06-10-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

It takes a lot of repairs to equal the 30 to 40K for a new truck, the only tow vehicle available now, and my Lincoln rides better than any truck and is much easier to get in and out of.

We are headed out to Tampa on June 18 with the Lincoln to pick up a 1954 Liner and tow it back to So Cal for restoration.

Bill

Bill, just for kicks, I called my local Napa, and my local Bumper to Bumper auto parts store, for availability on a couple of "normal" things that may break, on any vehicle. A lower radiator hose, and an ignition module, for your Lincoln. The module, suprisingly, was in stock at Napa, but not at Bumper to Bumper, and the hose would have to be ordered, and would be here Monday morning (today is Friday) at Bumper to Bumper, and late tomorrow (Saturday) morning from Napa.
As a control, I asked about similar items for my van, both were in stock at both places. I felt that in circumstances that would warrant these parts be replaced on the road, cost would not matter, so I did not enter that into the equation. My point was reliability, and parts availability, not cost of the tow vehicle, nor brand of tow vehicle.
I can think of several forum members, yourself included, who successfully tow with vintage tow vehicles, but most of them have spent big $$$ reconditioning their vehicles to make them reliable. The extra cash used to upgrade the vintage tow vehicle COULD be used to purchase a newer tow vehicle with better parts availability.
And while I have the floor, congratulations on your purchase, and have a safe trip picking up your new Liner.
BTW, the parts kids didn't know what a 460 was, I had to tell them it was a 7.5 liter...

wkerfoot · 06-10-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander63

Bill, just for kicks, I called my local Napa, and my local Bumper to Bumper auto parts store, for availability on a couple of "normal" things that may break, on any vehicle...
As a control, I asked about similar items for my van, both were in stock at both places. I felt that in circumstances that would warrant these parts be replaced on the road, cost would not matter, so I did not enter that into the equation. My point was reliability, and parts availability, not cost of the tow vehicle, nor brand of tow vehicle.
...And while I have the floor, congratulations on your purchase, and have a safe trip picking up your new Liner.
BTW, the parts kids didn't know what a 460 was, I had to tell them it was a 7.5 liter...

Scouting taught me to be prepared, I carry spare belts and hoses in all vehicles, they tend to break at the most inopportune time, far from a parts house and on Sunday. Everyone should carry spare belts and hoses regardless of vehicle age.

Don't even ask about a carb, I like to deal with a local parts house who know what a older vehicle is and at times know how to use parts books and not just the computer.

Thanks for the support.

Bill

Swanny · 07-12-2005, 11:01 PM

Not to offend anyone in the forum, but it seems like we sometimes apply the 'overkill' factor to our TVs. For instance I've read about people towing a Bambi with an F-350 or F-250 and actually seen bigger rigs pulling smaller SOB trailers.

My F-150 SuperCrew with a 5.4 liter pulls my '31 Excella just fine. The transmission already has synthetic fluid in it and the thermostat hasn't budged one bit, even in the 102 degree Texas heat. I have my transmission fluid changed every 20k instead of 35k since I want to make sure that I'm not damaging the trannie. There has been no sign of metal flakes or weakness in it. I'd probaby have a different opinion if we were frequently heading through the mountains or felt that I needed to tow our AS at 70++ MPH. The way I figure it, since Texas has a 60 MPH speed limit on vehicles towing travel trailers, I might drive 60 tops. Besides... part of the AS adventure is getting to our next location

.

Ironically, I just received my 1975 Owners manual from Helen at AS 'headquarters.' It's pretty amazing that ALL of the pictures in this book show the owners towing their AS with an automobile. There is not 1 picture in this document of a truck. As a matter of fact, I've owned trucks from the late 60's and early 70's and wouldn't trust either of them with our AS.

My grandparents and dad towed our family AS with a 1969 Buick Electra 225 and I only recall the Buick overheating on one occasion. So for those guys that are towing with a vintage vehicle....cheers.

Keep the shiny side up

Mitch

53flyingcloud · 07-12-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanny

.

Ironically, I just received my 1975 Owners manual from Helen at AS 'headquarters.' It's pretty amazing that ALL of the pictures in this book show the owners towing their AS with an automobile. There is not 1 picture in this document of a truck. As a matter of fact, I've owned trucks from the late 60's and early 70's and wouldn't trust either of them with our AS.

My grandparents and dad towed our family AS with a 1969 Buick Electra 225 and I only recall the Buick overheating on one occasion. So for those guys that are towing with a vintage vehicle....cheers.

Keep the shiny side up

Mitch

Mitch,
I'm sure you realize that the reason why the cars from the 'past' were able to be used was..most of them had frames back then~
Starting at some point in the late 60's, a few cars started coming out with uni-body frame constructions and, thus rendered unsuitable as tower~
There were times that trucks were used under certain harsh condition~I believe the most popular one used back then was the International Truck series.
I do agree that a 2500 or 3500 series is an overkill for a Bambi..But then again some of us own more than one Airstream, and tow with what we have...

ciao
53FC

Swanny · 07-13-2005, 07:06 AM

Great point and I'm REALLY not trying to start a feud here. Wow....the idea of owning more than 1 AS. Now that's really cool!!!

Mitch

wkerfoot · 07-13-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53FlyingCloud

Mitch,
I'm sure you realize that the reason why the cars from the 'past' were able to be used was..most of them had frames back then~
Starting at some point in the late 60's, a few cars started coming out with uni-body frame constructions and, thus rendered unsuitable as tower~
There were times that trucks were used under certain harsh condition~I believe the most popular one used back then was the International Truck series.
I do agree that a 2500 or 3500 series is an overkill for a Bambi..But then again some of us own more than one Airstream, and tow with what we have...

ciao
53FC

Chrysler has used unibody construction for quite some time. Ford still used body on frame for the Crown Vic platform. Cars were downsized in the late 70's for GM and not until 1980 for Ford, although the engine size was reduced starting in 1977 for Calif due to emission requirements. I think that you will find that cars were the tow vehicle of choice until the downsizing.

Bill

**Janet H** · 07-13-2005, 10:43 AM

Towing with a car? Not mine. We have an explorer w/a little 6 and a stick. It barely tows the minuet. We usually choose to tow with the truck, a Chevy 2500HD (duramax/allison) and yes... it IS overkill but we are never worried about getting over the Cascades... Peace of mind is worth a lot!

Silvertwinkie · 07-13-2005, 11:29 AM

Though the Crown Vic is still body on frame, it's weak 4.6L engine provides dismal power for anything larger than say 19', if even that. I would rather tow with a 5.4L than the 4.6L, thankfully, GM is out there so I need not delve into the Ford realm.

Back when GM had body on frame in their car line, I got 2 of the last copies of that offering. The 5.7 that was loaded into these road hogs had HP and torque on tap. In most cases these cars w/ the 5.7L equalled that of a 1/2 ton pickup (ok, but close if it weren't for the center frame). Having towed with the Impala SS, I'll tell you from first hand exp that it had issues on hills and mountain areas and it had 3.73s. The 6.0L in our 2500 Suburban is barely even phased by our 25' Safari, but a diesel would clearly get better mpg.

**jcanavera** · 07-13-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

The 6.0L in our 2500 Suburban is barely even phased by our 25' Safari, but a diesel would clearly get better mpg.

It's interesting to note that my last three tow vehicles and trailers have gotten increasingly larger yet have gotten the same gas mileage.

1991 Astro Ext Van 4.3 liter premium gas V6 4.10 axle rated to tow 6,000 lbs. towing 28' 5000' SOB trailer in 3rd gear, I got 10 mpg.

1999 Chevy Express Passenger van. 5.7 liter V8 3.73 axle rated to tow 6,500 lbs. towing 27' Airstream Safari 6,000 lbs in 3rd gear, I got 10 mpg.

2003 GMC Savana Passenger van. 6.0 liter V8 4.10 axle rated to tow 9,900 lbs. towing 30' Airstream Classic 8,500 lbs. (estimate) in OD, I get 10 mpg.

Jack

**Janet H** · 07-13-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcanavera

It's interesting to note that my last three tow vehicles and trailers have gotten increasingly larger yet have gotten the same gas mileage.
Jack

Yep - I agree. My under powered explorer gets about 20mpg but drops to under 14 mpg towing. The Chevy 2500HD (diesel) gets about 18 mpg and it doesn't change towing the minuet.

It's cheaper (fuel wise) to tow w/ the bigger rig.

Minnie's Mate · 07-13-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Though the Crown Vic is still body on frame, it's weak 4.6L engine provides dismal power for anything larger than say 19', if even that. I would rather tow with a 5.4L than the 4.6L, thankfully, GM is out there so I need not delve into the Ford realm.

I'm a Ford man myself and considered the Crown Victoria as a tow vehicle until I checked their web site...1,500 lbs. max.

Regardless of body on frame construction and 4.6L engine. What has happened to the real family cars out their? I guess they all morphed into SUV's!

wkerfoot · 07-13-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I'm a Ford man myself and considered the Crown Victoria as a tow vehicle until I checked their web site...1,500 lbs. max.

Regardless of body on frame construction and 5.0L engine. What has happened to the real family cars out their? I guess they all morphed into SUV's!

SUV's are classed with pickup trucks for safety and mileage requirements, both are less for trucks. Therefore cars have to be lightened up to meet the car CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy). SUV's have to meet the light truck CAFE, unless the Feds change to combine all vehicles to one CAFE.

Bill

'63 princess · 09-07-2005, 01:29 PM

Hi All.

It's been a while since I've been out to this site. I am getting ready to pick up my '63 Overlander. I have a few questions if anyone would like to give some advice:

1) Ford Excursion, Ford Expedition, Suburan 2500 or Toyota V8 4-Runner as tow vehicle?

2) Anyone know what a '63 Overlander, 26 foot, weighs?

3) Any tips for traveling x-country re: favorite camp-grounds or towing tips.?

Any advice is appreciated.

XO-
'63 Princess

MarkR · 09-07-2005, 01:43 PM

1963 Overlander Dry Weight: 4,095 lbs
Tongue Weight: 438 lbs
I have a PDF file I downloaded from some site that had this info, if you want I can email it to you.

sarmimi · 09-07-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '63 princess

It's been a while since I've been out to this site. I am getting ready to pick up my '63 Overlander. I have a few questions if anyone would like to give some advice:

1) Ford Excursion, Ford Expedition, Suburan 2500 or Toyota V8 4-Runner as tow vehicle?

3) Any tips for traveling x-country re: favorite camp-grounds or towing tips.?

Hi '63 Princess.

We have a 2005 Ford Excursion w/6.0L PS Diesel engine, 3.73 rear axle. It's towing capicity is 11,000 lbs, which should be plenty to tow your 63 overlander, fully loaded. We like it a lot as a TV. We tow a '05 CCD Int'l which comes in around 6,500 lbs as we have it loaded. Our TV has towed it magnificently up very steep, narrow, and winding grades. We've been traveling FT since May 19, 2005, and will continue through the end of Oct '05. We had looked at the Expedition, Suburban, and Toyota, as well as the VW Toureg as our TV's. We decided on the the Excursion b/c we had four people traveling in total, a large golden retriever, fly fishing gear, climbing gear, hiking gear, bikes, you name it - we needed A LOT of room, and the Expedition provided us with the most room. The diesel engine is great, with about 13 mpg towing and 18 mpg not towing (but w/driver, passenger, dog, and gear).

Towing tips - make sure at minimum you have a weight distribution hitch and sway bar, as well as a good brake system.

Good luck and have fun!

sarmimi · 09-08-2005, 04:37 PM

'63 Princess -

here's a few more thread discussions on the Excursion you might be interested in:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=17785

and this one, post #5, is good on some of the cons against the Excursion (but in my opinion, my Excursion has handled nicely and the after market changes recommended do not really apply to my towing needs):

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=17489

And this one compares GM with Ford:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=12014

Also, on towing tips, keep in mind that a shorter wheelbase (as you will have with the Toyata), is not so great in windy conditions or when a huge semi provides you with tons of air displacement as it passes you in the opposite direction on a 2 lane hwy. The longer the wheelbase, the more stable the tow in adverse conditions. The Suburban and Excursion have longer wheelbases (130 inches and 137 inches, respectively). Hope that helps.