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Old 02-19-2010, 02:51 PM   #15
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It really is confusing and I'm not sure what's going on with GM. I went on to the GMC van site and the brochure shows the one ton and 3/4 ton vans both using the 6 liter V8. What's confusing is that it shows the towing capicity of the one ton as 9,700 lbs. with a 3.42 rear axle and the 3/4 ton as 9,600 lbs.(same axle) This is quite a turn around since the 6 liter V8 on my 2003 Savana has a 9,900 lb towing capacity...but with a 4.10 rear axle. Back in '03, going to the one ton reduced towing capacity to 9,600 lbs or so.

I find this really interesting that they have really squeezed a lot more towing capacity from the 6 liter engine and bringing that axle down to a paltry 3.42. Also the penalty extracted in going to the heavier 1 ton frame and suspension brought towing capacity down back in '03.

Personally I think something is wrong with the van specs and could there be equivalent errors in the Surburban specifications??

Jack
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:08 PM   #16
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So when is this..."old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:13 PM   #17
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See post #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera View Post
...Personally I think something is wrong with the van specs and could there be equivalent errors in the Surburban specifications?
I remember reading about tow vehicle manufacturers agreeing to abide by more realistic standards when posting ratings when markdoane posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
I think what you're seeing here is Chevrolet getting ahead of the new ASTM towing standards. The new ratings are real, and the 12,000 lb tow ratings from last year were pure marketing BS.
I do not think there is an error in the Suburban specs. If the exact same truck could be transported back in time a few years, it would probably receive a 12,000 pound tow rating.

The original poster's friend should ask his/her salesperson about the new tow rating standards. If a blank look is received, then the friend should proceed accordingly.

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Old 02-19-2010, 03:20 PM   #18
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I think what you're seeing here is Chevrolet getting ahead of the new ASTM towing standards. The new ratings are real, and the 12,000 lb tow ratings from last year were pure marketing BS.
I'm inclined to think this is the root of the issue. The new towing standards may produce some interesting numbers.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:35 PM   #19
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GM, and others, are listening to their perceptions of what the market wants: fuel efficiency. If the engine is marginally smaller it will get better mileage in the EPA cycles, thus provide a nice hook for the adverts. In the real world, though, we all know that you need adequate power to push/pull the mass. I recall that when the Taurus came out in, was it 1985, Consumer Reports said the 4 cylinder was "adequate." Now they consistently move up the engine ladder to get performance from the same weight vehicle.
Buy a diesel, visit Banks, have more fun.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:20 PM   #20
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I am a long time Suburban fan. I currently own two 2500's that I use to tow Lucy far and wide. I have owned five Suburbans in the last fifteen years.

It all started when they took away the rear leaf springs on the 1500 a few years ago. Then they dropped the 8.1 Liter. I'm surprised that the 2500 has lasted at all.

GM seems bound and determined to turn the Suburban into a giant soccer mom minivan. I'm afraid the my next tow vehicle will have to be a pick-up truck.

Brian
My buddy who tows his 04' safari has the 8.1 liter and also uses it as a daily driver. He love the thing other that the mpg of 12 I love it to it's a nice setup...
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:50 PM   #21
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If the engine is marginally smaller it will get better mileage in the EPA cycles, Buy a diesel,
We have turned the corner. Big is out and not required. As time goes on I believe we will be reading more and more posts like this one...

(3.0L 6cyl Turbodiesel 6A)

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I just finished towing a 25 FB Flying Cloud 3,000+ miles from the West coast of Oregon through the mountains and narrow windy and winding roads along the coast, through California and the the desert to Tucson and then Interstate highways back to Wisconsin with our 2010 Touareg TDI. It pulled the the trailer without any problems at all--no sway and plenty of power to spare in the mountains and acceleration on the flats when you needed it. This is the third Touareg we have owned and by far the best. 26-27 mpg when not towing at 75-80 mph and 13-14 in the mountains 16-17 on the flats when towing.

The vehicle with factory hitch has a rated tongue weight of 770 lbs as stated in the manual. Some factory hitches have a label which VW has confirmed to me is erroneous. They have verified that the factory hitch meets the published specs and the label is incorrect. All my previous hitches were labeled as 770 and 7700 lbs as the published specs state.

I fully agree with the comments of SafariSS with respect to the engine braking and that it is a great vehicle and fun to drive.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:05 PM   #22
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GM, and others, are listening to their perceptions of what the market wants: fuel efficiency. If the engine is marginally smaller it will get better mileage in the EPA cycles, thus provide a nice hook for the adverts.
There are other things you can do to improve fuel economy. GM's 6-speed automatic in the full-sized trucks improved acceleration with a small bump in mileage.

I also don't think it's a perception of what the market wants - the market does want it, especially if the majority of buyers aren't towing a 8000 lb trailer. (Still, I don't get why the Suburban doesn't get the 6.2-liter V8 from the Escalade/Yukon Denali - if you're going to build a tow vehicle to rival the Sequoia, put a modern and strong engine in it.)

Quote:
I recall that when the Taurus came out in, was it 1985, Consumer Reports said the 4 cylinder was "adequate." Now they consistently move up the engine ladder to get performance from the same weight vehicle..
Well, not many buyers would think that that Taurus 4-cylinder is "adequate" nowadays. The threshold of "adequate" has shifted.

I drove a 2011 Hyundai Sonata yesterday - a full-sized roomy sedan weighing 3200 lbs (that does excellent in IIHS crash tests) with a 198-hp direct injection four-cylinder and six-speed automatic. Plenty of power. I was getting 37 mpg on the highway, 32 on rural roads. Amazing.

I hope that SUVs and trucks go in a similar direction - get the weight out, get more power out of smaller engines, optimize the structure. But we can't all quite afford Touareg TDIs or GL320 Bluetecs...bring on the diesel Traverse/Acadia/etc!

Tom
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:21 PM   #23
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My buddy who tows his 04' safari has the 8.1 liter and also uses it as a daily driver. He love the thing other that the mpg of 12

I love it to it's a nice setup...
Luv'n it here also...even at 12.1....infrequent daily driver, comfortable, capable, and looks good.
hopefully our last TV.
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So when is this..."old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
I hope that SUVs and trucks go in a similar direction - get the weight out, get more power out of smaller engines, optimize the structure. But we can't all quite afford Touareg TDIs or GL320 Bluetecs...bring on the diesel Traverse/Acadia/etc!
Yeah, I would love to replace my old X5 with the diesel version but it still only tows 6500# so we will stick with the Yacht and toad the little runabout. (The toad, a manual 5 speed Insight, gets about 46 mpg in daily commute, mixed aggresive driving, so, in my mind, it TOTALLY makes up for the 11-12 mpg the Yacht draws.)
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