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Old 09-10-2015, 03:14 PM   #1
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What do you think of this combination?

Hi all,
I am new to the Airstream Forum and Airstream. We have a 40' Newmar Class A that we have enjoyed a bunch over the years. Now, we have reached a stage where we would like to shorten our trips and most important, expand our choices in the roads we travel and places to park. A 40' motorhome with toad has its limits in this regard.

So, after some initial crusing of the Internet, I have arrived at what I think will fit our needs. (How did we ever figure this out without Google?).

We are looking at a Flying Cloud 25' and towing with a Ford Excursion Max.
The weight rating on the Flying Cloud is 7300 Lbs and the tow rating on the Excursion Max is 9300 Lbs. I have a lot of confidence in the Blue Ox product so will likely make the connection with the Blue Ox anti sway set up.

What do you think?

Thank you all in advance for your expert advice and valued opinions. I have towed a car behind our motorhome for years but this is my first at towing a TT.
Looking forward to joining the Airstream Lifestyle.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:27 PM   #2
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Welcome, Sounds like excellant combo to me.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:31 PM   #3
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What is the engine and axle ratio?

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Old 09-10-2015, 03:53 PM   #4
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What is the engine and axle ratio?

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Old 09-10-2015, 03:59 PM   #5
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What is the engine and axle ratio?

Kelvin
Ah yes,

3.5L Eco Boost V6 - 365 HP @ 5000 RPM, 480 Lb/Ft @ 2250 RPM
Limited Slip Axel ratio is 3.73 (Std on the Max, 3.31 on the non Max)
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:44 PM   #6
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Ah yes,

3.5L Eco Boost V6 - 365 HP @ 5000 RPM, 480 Lb/Ft @ 2250 RPM
Limited Slip Axel ratio is 3.73 (Std on the Max, 3.31 on the non Max)
I made an error on my OP, the vehicle is a Ford Expedition and Not an Excursion.
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:48 AM   #7
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I'd say you are good to go power wise. What is the payload sticker on the driver's door show as your available payload? Tongue weight on the 25 is usually higher than what AS publishes. My Classic 25fb is about 1100lbs.

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Old 09-11-2015, 10:46 AM   #8
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Welcome to the Forums!

You have asked a question that stirs a lot of very passionate debate here.

When it comes to tow vehicle/trailer combos, hitch setups, brake controllers, tires and wheels, and even the best time of year for camping all of us seem to have our own opinion.

Some prefer smaller trailers and vehicles, some like larger.


If you are coming from an large rig with lots of storage, the first change is the reduced amount of storage in an Airstream. Especially for anything "dirty". Airstreams don't have basements.

Grills and the fuel, chairs and a table, and ice chests are just a few of the things I don't like to haul inside the living space.

There are no onboard generators in these trailers and you mention finding spots that you could not visit in your motorhome. So, you will probably want a portable gen set and fuel to boondock in a nice remote spot somewhere.

These also have to have a place to travel.

Like I say, folks deal with these concerns in lots of ways and some manage in mini vans, sedans, and SUVs.

Some of us prefer pickups.


Some like smaller power and some like diesels.

If you like being able to travel where you want, when you want, and with what you want the rig you suggest seems a under powered and limited to me.

But as I mentioned, like those who have commented before me, this is simply my opinion.


Regards,

JD
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:27 AM   #9
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What is an Excursion Max?
I've heard of a Ford Excursion. They haven't manufactured them in several years.
If it is an Excursion as I know an Excursion, built on an F250 chassis, it should work out fine.
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:43 PM   #10
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We tow our 25' FC with a 2008 Expedition and are very happy with it. It is only the two of us with some small pets, so we don't carry much extra "stuff". Cargo capacity could pose a problem if you need to carry a lot with you.
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Old 09-11-2015, 01:00 PM   #11
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We tow our FC25RB with a 2013 Expedition EL (the USA name for the Expedition MAX).

Works really well. Our payload, as per the door sticker is approx 1400lbs. This is the limiting factor. We load the SUV up to about 1300lbs... I see a F150 in our future. I would like a payload of closer to 2000lbs.
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Old 09-11-2015, 01:05 PM   #12
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The Expedition Ecoboost and 25' Airstream are a near perfectly matched combination. Don't skimp on the hitch or getting it set up perfectly as possible as that is the third element of this great travel/camping rig.

The big deal (and you'll see too much of it made here) with medium sized combinations is cargo carrying capacity. Stay within load limits on the truck and trailer axles and tires. Plenty of ways to do that. Haul less stuff in the truck if you need more load capacity, adjust trailer loads and/or equipment if the hitch weight is too much, and (again) get the hitch properly set up so it can redistribute some of the loads as needed to stay within specs.
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis45 View Post
Ah yes,

3.5L Eco Boost V6 - 365 HP @ 5000 RPM, 480 Lb/Ft @ 2250 RPM
Limited Slip Axel ratio is 3.73 (Std on the Max, 3.31 on the non Max)
We are towing a 2014 Serenity 25FB with a 2008 Range Rover HSE with 300HP and 325 lbs of torque and 7,771 lbs tow rating. We are quite happy with it this side of the Sierras. I think you will be surprised with your performance having the higher HP, torque and tow rating. When we decide to go east or Alaska Highway, we will be looking at a 3/4-ton truck, but until then.....
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:54 PM   #14
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If you are going to be in the hills often I would suggest a trans cooler and have it installed on the return line AFTER the radiator.

Everyone will tell you that is illegal, fattening, and immoral but it will serve you well.

I ran my Suburban 190,000 miles this way running the trans at 160 F in the summer and 105 in the winter. The only heat the trans saw was the blow by from the engine and radiator.
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Old 09-12-2015, 11:13 AM   #15
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We have a 2014 Flying Cloud Front Bedroom with solar. It came off the line in Jackson Center with a tongue weight of 925 lbs. This spring I had it weighed at Jackson Center with its normal cargo. Total weight was 6501 but the tongue weight was 1252, or 252 over Airstream's recommended max. I tow with at 2013 F-150 Ecoboost with Max Tow and Max Cargo. It feels fine but with an Andersen hitch its drive axle and tires were over loaded by about 400 lbs. I switched to a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars. With "3 links showing" the drive axle was about 100 lbs (4140 lbs.). over with a lighter than usual load. With 1 link showing and a more normal load the drive axle is about 140 lbs. over (4240 lbs.). The change to one link transferred about 200 lbs. to the trailer and made its ride unacceptably harsh. No additional weight was transferred to the steer axle. So far Blue Ox has declined to explain why no weight went forward. The truck feels like it's fine but we are going to Alaska next year and I've decided to replace it with a 3/4 ton diesel. And I hope to go back to the Andersen...we'll see.

We have friends who own a 2015 FC25Rear Bedroom. Their loaded tongue weight is about 800 lbs. which I think is a bit lighter that it's empty weight. Most of the exterior storage in the FC25RB in in the rear.

I think my rig is slightly less affected by wind and semis with the Blue Ox. It was good with the Andersen too. You will probably want a long, stout breaker bar and 1" socket to lever the bars up. The wrench Blue Ox provides is kind of a joke for what I have.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:46 PM   #16
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We have a 2014 Flying Cloud Front Bedroom with solar. It came off the line in Jackson Center with a tongue weight of 925 lbs. This spring I had it weighed at Jackson Center with its normal cargo. Total weight was 6501 but the tongue weight was 1252, or 252 over Airstream's recommended max. I tow with at 2013 F-150 Ecoboost with Max Tow and Max Cargo. It feels fine but with an Andersen hitch its drive axle and tires were over loaded by about 400 lbs. I switched to a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars. With "3 links showing" the drive axle was about 100 lbs (4140 lbs.). over with a lighter than usual load. With 1 link showing and a more normal load the drive axle is about 140 lbs. over (4240 lbs.). The change to one link transferred about 200 lbs. to the trailer and made its ride unacceptably harsh. No additional weight was transferred to the steer axle. So far Blue Ox has declined to explain why no weight went forward. The truck feels like it's fine but we are going to Alaska next year and I've decided to replace it with a 3/4 ton diesel. And I hope to go back to the Andersen...we'll see.
.
Did Jackson Center weigh the individual tires or axles? I have weighed my trailer on a CAT scale but I have never gotten the separate tire weights. I'd like to know if JC has that ability. For loading purposes, I would like to know my left/right balance.

FWIW, I have a 2013 25FB with aftermarket awnings, solar, inverter, and upgraded batteries. My trailer total weight is 6760 with full water, empty waste tanks, and normal gear and food on board. I don't have an exact tongue weight on mine, but I know it is less than yours.
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:39 PM   #17
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If you are going to pur. new tow vehicle spec trailer tow package, will have trans cooler,other musts for towing. Word of caution do not listen to sale pers. that consider themselves experts about towing and what is needed. It happened to me when I specked a 1 ton chev. all things I wanted they did except I specified 373 rear ratio with 454 eng., sales man thought I didn't no any thing so changed to 411 ratio, not to happy refused deliv. unless changed ratio, but could not, at the time I have pulled trailers many years longer than his age. So research what you desire and stick with it when pur. tv, if they hassle go to another dealer, if it comes in to dealer wrong walk away find one that will order what you desire. I did not do because I pur. at dealers large loss, but huge mistake my part never was happy with truck, never did bus. with them again. That was in 1978.
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:36 PM   #18
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I don't know about the newer trucks, but on my 2006 F-150 the HD transmission cooler was well forward of the radiator and AC condenser. I had to climb an 8% grade at about 25 mph. Transmission temperature went up to 234 degrees and the truck lost power. My conclusion was there was not enough air flow over the cooler. I was going to install an "active" cooler, i.e. one with its own fan but ended up trading for a Ram diesel. If your cooler doesn't have its own fan I'd suggest adding one that does.

Al
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jdalrymple View Post
Welcome to the Forums!

You have asked a question that stirs a lot of very passionate debate here.

When it comes to tow vehicle/trailer combos, hitch setups, brake controllers, tires and wheels, and even the best time of year for camping all of us seem to have our own opinion.

Some prefer smaller trailers and vehicles, some like larger.


If you are coming from an large rig with lots of storage, the first change is the reduced amount of storage in an Airstream. Especially for anything "dirty". Airstreams don't have basements.

Grills and the fuel, chairs and a table, and ice chests are just a few of the things I don't like to haul inside the living space.

There are no onboard generators in these trailers and you mention finding spots that you could not visit in your motorhome. So, you will probably want a portable gen set and fuel to boondock in a nice remote spot somewhere.

These also have to have a place to travel.

Like I say, folks deal with these concerns in lots of ways and some manage in mini vans, sedans, and SUVs.

Some of us prefer pickups.


Some like smaller power and some like diesels.

If you like being able to travel where you want, when you want, and with what you want the rig you suggest seems a under powered and limited to me.

But as I mentioned, like those who have commented before me, this is simply my opinion.


Regards,

JD
Thank you to everyone for your valued input. In particular, thanks to JD.
Your post really got me thinking and after a visit to our AS dealer and getting a better feel for the product, we have come to the conclusion that we will stay with what we have.
The AS is a beautiful machine but it is a completely different mode than we are accustomed to. Once we did the touchy-feely thing, it became clear it's not for us. Thanks again JD for your comments.

How did people make these decisions in the Good Old Days without forums like this?
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:09 PM   #20
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Did Jackson Center weigh the individual tires or axles? I have weighed my trailer on a CAT scale but I have never gotten the separate tire weights. I'd like to know if JC has that ability. For loading purposes, I would like to know my left/right balance.

FWIW, I have a 2013 25FB with aftermarket awnings, solar, inverter, and upgraded batteries. My trailer total weight is 6760 with full water, empty waste tanks, and normal gear and food on board. I don't have an exact tongue weight on mine, but I know it is less than yours.


Jackson Center weighed the loaded road side as 2506 and the curb side as 2743.

When it came off the line the road side was 2336 and the curb side was 2495.

As you can see, we have not tried to compensate for the manufactured imbalance, but our loading side-to-side is pretty equal (dumb luck).

It would be another mystery if your FB tongue weight is less than mine.

BTW, when I got home from Jackson Center I weighed the tongue with a Sherline scale before we removed anything. It should have weighed close to the same 1252 but it was 1150; about 8% low.
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