Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-23-2013, 11:13 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
MrUKToad's Avatar

 
2011 28' International
Chatham , Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,372
Images: 17
Blog Entries: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
my honda odyssey is rated at max toxing capacity at 3500 lbs? Is it ok to exceed this? If so, what is this rating based upon? If not 3500, is there some other max rating that sould be used? If so, what is that recommendation based upon?

As a medical geek (and this comparison may not be great), anecdotes are in many respects worthless.....blood letting is of course the prime example...people would swear by it.

Ideally, any recommendations should be based on solid research...systematic controlled research...peer reviewed and published. Of course I know next to nothing of mechanical engineering....but that thought crossed my mind...perhaps out of place in this arena...just that "it works for me" while useful information, is highly limiting in many areas of science...or really most...

Also, the payload of my minivan is 1350 lbs...add in kids car seats, kids, us, stuff, and the trailer and we have exceeded that....and even a 25 foot AS new is 800+ lbs tongue weight before the hitch....

I am new to this, so I do apologize if I have massacred this all....but how do these numbers work out? Is it acceptable to go above these max payload or max towing cap ratings? or perhaps there are minivans that have more payload capacity than mine...and more towing ability?
My Sienna and Airstream are not anecdotes! We're real and on the road, for goodness sake!

Briefly, a minivan's tow rating of 3,500 lbs bears no relation to it's ability to tow an Airstream. Go ask Honda how they arrived at their rating, I can guarantee that they have no technical data on how it was derived or tested and that's because it's more a marketing tool than an actual, measurable limit.

Can you exceed it? Well yes, of course you can, but whether you want to or not is entirely up to you. It's not illegal, that's for sure, but you need the confidence of a properly set up TV and trailer combination to do so.

Later model Toyota, Honda and Chrysler minivans do have better characteristics for towing; better power, transmissions, brakes, wheelbase, payload, etc., but earlier models were more than capable of towing beyond the curiously common 3,500 lb tow limit.

The key thing here, though, and others have mentioned it, is that you have to go with what you're comfortable with. You sound like you want to haul a lot of stuff around so I'd be the last person to recommend saddling up your Odyssey!
__________________

__________________
Steve; also known as Mr UK Toad

"You can't tow that with that!"

http://toadsoftowedhaul.com
MrUKToad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 11:38 PM   #30
Rivet Master
 
PharmGeek's Avatar

 
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Hoover , Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,377
So that max tow rating is entirely arbitrary? I had no idea!

Also - just to be pedantic - technically your story most certainly is an anecdote - by definition.
__________________

__________________
“The atoms of our bodies are traceable to stars that manufactured them...We are not figuratively, but literally stardust.”


PharmGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 06:00 AM   #31
Rivet Master
 
andreasduess's Avatar
 
1984 34' International
Toronto , Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,496
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 1
To give you an example of arbitrary tow ratings, the Oddy has a tow rating of 3500lbs.
The Honda Pilot, which looks bigger and tougher, has a tow rating of 4500lbs.

The Honda Oddy and the Pilot share the same engine, the same transmission, the same brakes and numerous other parts. Yet there's a miraculous difference of 1000lbs in tow capability.

There are many reasons why we didn't buy a truck or large body on frame SUV. Here are the top two:

1. In my opinion, they make terrible daily drivers and are far less safe - to the driver and to others - in an accident. They are prone to rollover incidents, they are terrible at emergency handling and I believe that my family, and other people's families, would be at far higher risk of injury in a truck than in a car or van. You're interested in data, check the accident stats.

2. The environment. Yes, there's a bit of a treehugger in me. Why drive a gas hog when a smaller vehicle does the job just as well? Also, we live in the downtown of one of North America's largest cities, so parking does come at a premium.

Like Steve, I believe the published tow rating to be completely arbitrary. Talk to dealers and you'll find that they have zero idea of how it was calculated. Nobody has yet been able to give me a satisfactory answer.

Numbers I personally would never feel comfortable exceeding are the total payload and the axle weight. Those are easily calculated and tested. There's nothing anecdotal about the numbers I posted above either.

From your posts, it looks that you'd just like a big TV. If it makes you feel good and safe and you can afford it, just get one. Enjoy it, go camping.
__________________
andreasduess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 07:12 AM   #32
Rivet Master
 
andreasduess's Avatar
 
1984 34' International
Toronto , Ontario
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,496
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 1
PS: Just to make sure, all of the above is just my personal opinion - I would never presume that anybody else should share it, or base their own decision on it. Nor do I believe that one's choice of TV is a reflection of one's worth as a human being.

You could decide to drive the biggest, baddest monster of a truck and I'd still like to have a beer should we meet at a campground somewhere.
__________________
andreasduess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 09:41 AM   #33
Rivet Master
 
MrUKToad's Avatar

 
2011 28' International
Chatham , Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,372
Images: 17
Blog Entries: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
So that max tow rating is entirely arbitrary? I had no idea!

Also - just to be pedantic - technically your story most certainly is an anecdote - by definition.
Ha ha! Pedantry is good. I meant that my "story" is not apocryphal in that the Sienna is real and really does tow that big Airstream. I speak from real-world experience rather than using assumptions, suppositions and hearsay.

Tow ratings are tricky things and I don't blame the manufacturers for being less than transparent about them. If you're trying to sell a high margin truck and your competitor claims a tow rating of x, then your marketing folks will say advertise ours at x+100. They may consult the engineers, they may even attempt a test, but it's more to do with selling than actual towing ability. If you think about it, to express a tow rating in a simple measure of weight is nonsense; there are so many other factors that make a good tow and the manufacturer's couldn't and wouldn't attempt to test them all.

If you're selling a low margin minivan then the marketing boys and girls will just go low with a rating; they'd rather you bought a minivan AND a truck. The point about testing, or not testing, is even more pertinent to cars and minivans.

Like I've said to others, if you're concerned about what kind of TV you want (not need, that's another ball game altogether), you can consult a professional as well as gather opinions from the Forum.
__________________
Steve; also known as Mr UK Toad

"You can't tow that with that!"

http://toadsoftowedhaul.com
MrUKToad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 12:05 PM   #34
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar
 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,928
Images: 2
There is a commercial showing a Touoda towing a space shuttle. What about numbers? Just kiddin!!!!!!

I have towed far above "rated" a few times with boat and horse trailers. It is an interesting experience to be "beyond the envelope". Yes, it can be done "but" if you ever "get a tiger by the tail" it will forever be in your psyche

Once I towed a double horse trailer with my Chevelle, 6cyl, 3 speed manual, no AC. There was an emergency stop which bent the car hitch nearly to the ground. I ha to drive 45 miles in that tongue low position to find a welding shop that would repair. I have learned the lesson and healed from the lumps.

Morals of the story..."lose the lumps, not the lesson"....drive with the best equipment you can find and afford. Buying "more" TV than "marginal" will serve you well when you need it, but it is possible to "overdo" it, you can drive a tack with a sledge hammer but not a spike with a tack hammer.

The most precious cargo is in my TV, as long as they are unharmed I can get another AS or SOB.
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 01:31 PM   #35
Rivet Master
 
jdalrymple's Avatar
 
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay , Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,602
I do not dispute the rated ability of a eight passenger mini-van to carry 1400 pounds. That rating is the simple math of the accepted average weight of an adult divided by the eight seats the manufacturer managed to bolt to floor of the van.

I do not want whatever I choose to carry floating around inside the passenger compartment with me or inside my Airstream. Generators and their fuel at the top of that list.

No matter how close the hitch ball is to the rear axle, or if the TV wheels are on the far ends of the chassis.

I have done the research and am fully aware of the engineering theories involved in my choice.

I don't intend judge the choices of others, but simply offer my opinion and experience to those who asked for the same.

Regards,

JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud
'91 350 LE MH
jdalrymple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 03:32 PM   #36
Rivet Master
 
PharmGeek's Avatar

 
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Hoover , Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
Ha ha! Pedantry is good. I meant that my "story" is not apocryphal in that the Sienna is real and really does tow that big Airstream. I speak from real-world experience rather than using assumptions, suppositions and hearsay.
not that it at all matters to the subject really, but I think you may? be misunderstanding what an anecdote is.

An anecdote does not mean that the experience described is invalid or that the person describing their experience is lying, disingenuous, etc...it can include a reported experience or event that truly happened.

In the scientific sense, an anecdote is simply an uncontrolled observation pretty much. This includes personal experience and unpublished observations.

But your real world experience is certainly useful I believe in this arena - in this forum - and I think it holds water - is worth considering - but - as such, any uncontrolled observations have their limitations.

What would be ideal is to research these questions....you could create stats for these ratings that would give a sense of the stats...in medicine we use stats like "NNH" or "number needed to harm"...imagine such stats used to determine how various TV's held up...of course this is I am guessing entirely impractical, but thinking about it in this way serves as an interesting thought experiment to ponder what such research would do to current conventions in thinking on such a subject...would be fascinating..
__________________
“The atoms of our bodies are traceable to stars that manufactured them...We are not figuratively, but literally stardust.”


PharmGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #37
4 Rivet Member
 
mgriffrus's Avatar
 
1974 29' Ambassador
Ruston , Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 320
Isn't everything on the forums pretty much anecdotal anyway? It's a group of people sharing their personal experiences and advice, and since we're sharing...

I bought my 3/4 Ram Megacab with the intent of finding a fifth wheel something to jerk around the country with a wife, two teenage kids, and a dog. However, we bought out first airstream instead. It happens to be the only one right now, but I'm always looking for another.

Is it overkill? Probably. Can I load a ladder, ice chests, folding chairs, spare tires, a smoker and tools in the bed of the truck and not worry about it overloading? Absolutely. Do I get good mileage pulling the trailer? I'd like to think so, I'm tickled with getting 13-15 mpg cruising along (between 55 on highways and 65 on interstates) without a care in the world. Is it a pain to park and drive, especially in old cities like New Orleans or St Augustine? You bet your butt it is.

On the other hand, I was fascinated by the couple towing a 1992 23 footer with a diesel Jetta from Florida back to Canada and obviously having no problems at all.

There are pros and cons on this subject, and I've seen some pretty healthy debates. It all boils down to what you're comfortable with and how many other toys you plan on bringing with you.
__________________
mgriffrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 05:37 AM   #38
Rivet Master
 
m.hony's Avatar
 
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess View Post
To give you an example of arbitrary tow ratings, the Oddy has a tow rating of 3500lbs.
The Honda Pilot, which looks bigger and tougher, has a tow rating of 4500lbs.

The Honda Oddy and the Pilot share the same engine, the same transmission, the same brakes and numerous other parts. Yet there's a miraculous difference of 1000lbs in tow capability.

There are many reasons why we didn't buy a truck or large body on frame SUV. Here are the top two:

1. In my opinion, they make terrible daily drivers and are far less safe - to the driver and to others - in an accident. They are prone to rollover incidents, they are terrible at emergency handling and I believe that my family, and other people's families, would be at far higher risk of injury in a truck than in a car or van. You're interested in data, check the accident stats.

2. The environment. Yes, there's a bit of a treehugger in me. Why drive a gas hog when a smaller vehicle does the job just as well? Also, we live in the downtown of one of North America's largest cities, so parking does come at a premium.

Like Steve, I believe the published tow rating to be completely arbitrary. Talk to dealers and you'll find that they have zero idea of how it was calculated. Nobody has yet been able to give me a satisfactory answer.

Numbers I personally would never feel comfortable exceeding are the total payload and the axle weight. Those are easily calculated and tested. There's nothing anecdotal about the numbers I posted above either.

From your posts, it looks that you'd just like a big TV. If it makes you feel good and safe and you can afford it, just get one. Enjoy it, go camping.
In 29 years of driving I have owned 5 pickup trucks and an SUV. I don't think they are bad daily drivers or that my family is unsafe. Maybe it is "southern culture". Pickups and SUVs way outnumber cars here and are used as daily drivers by everyone from teens to moms.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
m.hony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:37 AM   #39
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
One post....

.....on a thread he started.

Skeered another one away?

Good job gang.

Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:48 AM   #40
Rivet Master
 
m.hony's Avatar
 
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasduess View Post
To give you an example of arbitrary tow ratings, the Oddy has a tow rating of 3500lbs.
The Honda Pilot, which looks bigger and tougher, has a tow rating of 4500lbs.

The Honda Oddy and the Pilot share the same engine, the same transmission, the same brakes and numerous other parts. Yet there's a miraculous difference of 1000lbs in tow capability.

There are many reasons why we didn't buy a truck or large body on frame SUV. Here are the top two:

1. In my opinion, they make terrible daily drivers and are far less safe - to the driver and to others - in an accident. They are prone to rollover incidents, they are terrible at emergency handling and I believe that my family, and other people's families, would be at far higher risk of injury in a truck than in a car or van. You're interested in data, check the accident stats.

2. The environment. Yes, there's a bit of a treehugger in me. Why drive a gas hog when a smaller vehicle does the job just as well? Also, we live in the downtown of one of North America's largest cities, so parking does come at a premium.

Like Steve, I believe the published tow rating to be completely arbitrary. Talk to dealers and you'll find that they have zero idea of how it was calculated. Nobody has yet been able to give me a satisfactory answer.

Numbers I personally would never feel comfortable exceeding are the total payload and the axle weight. Those are easily calculated and tested. There's nothing anecdotal about the numbers I posted above either.

From your posts, it looks that you'd just like a big TV. If it makes you feel good and safe and you can afford it, just get one. Enjoy it, go camping.
The difference in tow ratings from one vehicle to the next is simply in springs/axles/transmission/rear end gears. That is the only difference in 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton pickups/vans/SUVs. The Pilot must have a heavier suspension or less weight at the back than the Odyssey because it is an open vehicle.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
m.hony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:00 AM   #41
Rivet Master
 
pappy19's Avatar
 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Garden Valley , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,418
Personally, I don't think you could do any better than a 3/4 ton gasoline powered rig. You don't need a new diesel for $60k not to mention the excessive maintenance costs.
__________________
2008 F-250 4X4 Lariat V-10
2002 Airstream Classic 30' w/SO #2074
2007 Kubota 900 RTV
1996 Ford Bronco
2007 Lincoln LT
pappy19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 10:11 PM   #42
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar
 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,928
Images: 2
I love my 2012 Duramax with Allison tranny. 14-18 MPG towing from Central Texas to Central Arkansas on back roads and posted speeds.

Pulling back on interstates (yuk), running 65 usually, got 16-18 and for a while, 19. Running without TT yesterday from home to Arlington I hit 22MPG... So, towing AS gives same mileage as in town driving...almost.
__________________

__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.