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Old 01-05-2008, 11:33 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Another detail we have not touched on is emissions and the environment...on an average, which fuel motor is better on the environment, the current diesels or the current gassers?
It depends.
Each fuel / engine has pluses and minuses.

Diesels on average get about 33% better MPG then gas. However Diesel takes 25% more oil to make then gas. This still gives diesel an 8% advantage.

CO2 emissions are lower for diesel vs gas.

Diesels take a big hit in the particulates they produce. The numbers used to be off the scale, but currently they are about 10x as much as gas. Resent laws are aiming to get them much lower then that.

There is no simple answer.
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Old 01-05-2008, 02:55 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Interesting experience and conclusion....

Another detail we have not touched on is emissions and the environment...on an average, which fuel motor is better on the environment, the current diesels or the current gassers?

And who has the cleanest diesel and who has the cleanest gasser. In my questions I am ruling out any motor that isn't put in a vehicle capable of towing at least 7500 lbs.

I am not a tree hugger but one of our other cars is a Prius.

Interesting thought. This truck is oue first e85 vehicle and it appears this is a cleaner burning fuel from the marketing hype. Anyone have any updates if e85 is better/worse for the enviornment?
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:10 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by alvinator
As far as current diesels go, the industry would be wise to offer a reduced HP model with good fuel economy. One will still enjoy plenty of power.

The SPRINTER, the original model imported from Germany, has a turbo -charged 5 cylinder inline which produces 154 hp and 243 lb-ft of torque.

I haven't used mine to tow yet but reports on MPG range from 17 to 22.

Sergei
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:15 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by safari 28
Interesting thought. This truck is oue first e85 vehicle and it appears this is a cleaner burning fuel from the marketing hype. Anyone have any updates if e85 is better/worse for the enviornment?
E85 is 85 percent ethanol. It burns cleaner than fossil fuels and is derived from a renewable resource, usually corn or sugar cane and it's use lessens our dependency on foreign oil. So, you can feel good about using it - but, it's not that readily available in a lot of the country, It is not compatable with fuel systems that were not designed or that have not been modified to handle it and there is no fuel economy advantage.

Much like bio-diesel, I think that currently E85's major role is to help make people aware that there are alternatives to gas and diesel fuels that are derived from foriegn oil. Using it is the green thing to do.

Roger
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:54 PM   #75
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Isn't there some controversy about it taking more energy (btu's) to produce a gallon of ethanol than what a gallon of ethanol has?
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:32 PM   #76
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Denny, that's a tough question to answer. Fieldwork, refining & transport to market supposedly don't exceed the energy delivered to the pump. Due to tax issues and not demand there have been a huge number of plants built here and in Iowa. They're talking about some being idled. It still comes down to the fact that all the corn in the U.S. wouldn't displace ... 5%? 10%? of gasoline use. Current demand is heavily subsidized but that is declining.

Friends in the corners of the country don't know anything about E85. States with 10 or more gas stations with E85 - CO 22, IL 146, IN 86, IA 65, KS 18, MI 44 , MN 308, MO 72, NE 31, NC 12, ND 23, OH 39, SD 61, TX 31, WI 63.

Susie has used a V.A. car in her job the last 2 years. They only can refuel with E85 -- that's part of the subsidy. There were only 2 stations at distant corners of our county 2 years ago. It's quite common now. I know there's a lot of soy biodiesel when I hit IL on the way to Moraine View.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:13 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Interesting experience and conclusion....

I am not a tree hugger but one of our other cars is a Prius.


What a coincidence, our main vehicle is also a Prius!
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by safari 28
Interesting thought. This truck is oue first e85 vehicle and it appears this is a cleaner burning fuel from the marketing hype. Anyone have any updates if e85 is better/worse for the enviornment?
An issue of Scientific American discussed this about a year ago. If their data is correct, ethanol creates more pollution per mile then gas, if you look at the big picture and track the production process of each. Unfortunately, ethanol requires burning a lot of methane during its distillation process.
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Old 01-06-2008, 02:12 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by alvinator
We have had 3 Dodge dieseis starting with a 1994 that had a whopping 175 HP and about 420 torque. The last one was a Cummins 600 torquer. We now pull with a V-10/4.10 E-350 Ford Chateau Passenger van. The torque on the V-10 is about the same as the 94 Dodge.

Both the 1994 and V-10 engines pulled us up and down the Rocky mountains with no strain, We averaged about 12 mpg with the 94 and 9 mpg with the Ford gasser. The Cummins 600 was overkill with mileage in the 10 mpg range towing.

Since my 1994, the Auto industry has been in a race to build the biggest and baddest diesel on the planet along with a huge drop in fuel economy.

At this stage, diesels and their huge price tags make no economic or power sense; were we to buy another vehicle, it would be a Ford F250 with a V-10/4.10 combo; alas, this combo is no longer available in the E-350 unless you spring for a conversion van.

As far as current diesels go, the industry would be wise to offer a reduced HP model with good fuel economy. One will still enjoy plenty of power.

Just our 2 cents.
That's what the Cummins B-Model 12V was until they went to the 24V in early to mid 1998. Sometimes bigger and badder is not necessarily better.

My 12V now has 128K, gets 14 MPG pulling and still runs like a new sewing machine. Only part to go bad has been the starter at 114K. I have no complaints on this rig and will probably keep it as long as it takes good care of me.

My $0.02 worth.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:38 AM   #80
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We have three customers now towing with Hylander and Lexus RX Hybrids. They go like stink when the gas and electric motors are combined. The electic motor only runs for about 60 seconds before it shuts down but that is usually enough to pass a slow car or get up to speed on an on ramp.

They are towing a 25' Safari, 16 CCD and a 28.5' Surveryor lite.

One other bonus do they ever recharge your batteries in a hurry when you are dry camping.

Andy
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:27 AM   #81
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We have three customers now towing with Hylander and Lexus RX Hybrids. They go like stink when the gas and electric motors are combined. The electic motor only runs for about 60 seconds before it shuts down but that is usually enough to pass a slow car or get up to speed on an on ramp.

They are towing a 25' Safari, 16 CCD and a 28.5' Surveryor lite.

One other bonus do they ever recharge your batteries in a hurry when you are dry camping.

Andy
This is one of the great things I look forward to as we move forward, and another reason I have good feeling about leasing. Currently a heavy half ton burning e85, next maybe a hybrid, and who can predict after that. I wanted initially to go with a motorhome, but aging drivetrains and old technology kept saying Airstream. The next big challenge is to live long enough and keep the income coming in!! You can get greener and still RV.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:53 PM   #82
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Timemachine is famous now

Time,

This thread has been posted under tow vehicles on RV net open roads.
Don't let this fame go to your head.
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:05 PM   #83
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There is a lot of misinformation about ethanol. All of the information about ethanol taking more energy to produce than what it nets is totally false. That is old information and does not take into condsideration today's modern energy efficient plants.

All that being said, it is possible to run a certain percentage of ethanol or E85 in a non FFV. I am going to try it in the wife's 2004 Malibu and my lawnmower this coming summer. Some folks report that up to 70% E85 with regular gasoline nets improved mileage and performance. If I buy another new vehicle, it will be an FFV.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:00 PM   #84
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Quote:
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Some folks report that up to 70% E85 with regular gasoline nets improved mileage and performance.
E85 has become a relatively small fact of life in our area. So this has been discussed in all the auto columns, TV news, etc. The skinny is that ethanol has about 15% less caloric content per unit volume. The foot hovering over the gas pedal has more influence than this, so the decreased mileage potential of ethanol is supposedly hard to notice.
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