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Old 01-02-2008, 01:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags
Our '05 Suburban is a Quadrasteer, and I absolute her. I call her Olivia, the "Trick Suburban". She can make a U-turn in less space that a small sedan, and whip into parking spaces at Wal-Mart like an MG Midget. As far as backing the Airstream goes, she can make Lucy change direction "right now". Alas, Olivia has 62,000 miles on her, she will be pushing 100,000 by the end of '08. That is why I have begun to consider her replacement.

I am seriously going to miss the four wheel steering. GM made a big mistake letting it go. I keep it serviced, and it has never given me a moment's trouble. I guess GM needed to concentrate more its engineering efforts on including more cup holders and giving the 3/4 ton Sub "that soccer mom ride".

Brian
Brian,

Putting a new engine and trans in your '05 would be cheaper than buying a new vehicle. Since you love your sub stick with it.

Time,

Since no one has flamed you I guess I will. So here goes.

I don't like your shoes!

Your new truck looks very nice and I'm eager to see it. Since I know you are a car guy who's a bit overboard on reasearch I'm positive that truck will do everything you want it to. I'm really looking forward to you and Kevbo chortling "It's a Hemi dude" at all future rallies.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:45 AM   #30
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hi time!

all red trucks are good!

i'm no mechanic, but...

your list of repair issues is interesting, i'd wonder hard about that dealer and their 'diesel expertise...

anyone can throw new parts at a problem, but sorting out the causes makes for the true master mechanic.

it reads like all of those issues are related (intercooler, egr, turbo) and yet they never isolated the main issue.

i drove another streamers 3500 dodge dually last night, it rides softer and smaller than the 250...

but it was a 6 banger cummins...

tow vehicles like trailers are personal choices with LOTS of winning options.

you are still towing within specs and with adequate reserves so what's not to like?

why post apologetically when it's obvious much thought and investigation preceded the purchase?

i find the 'flame away' comments and 'get a one ton dually' blah blah so often referenced here comical...

almost no one (no one) seriously suggests a diesel or 1 ton is needed for mid sized (or any) a/s....

and the volume of flaming on this forum is barely enough to heat a porta potty...

enjoy your new ride!

cheers
2air'

as for the q steer sub'...

if/when the engine wears out it could be replaced, even with a new tranny the cost is only a few 1000$...

but generally folks like new interiors, upgraded gadgets and the new car smell that comes with the total replacement package....
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:03 AM   #31
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I'm Hurt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping

Time,

Since no one has flamed you I guess I will. So here goes.

I don't like your shoes!

I'm really looking forward to you and Kevbo chortling "It's a Hemi dude" at all future rallies.
Which shoes?
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:48 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
hi time!

all red trucks are good!

i'm no mechanic, but...

your list of repair issues is interesting, i'd wonder hard about that dealer and their 'diesel expertise...

anyone can throw new parts at a problem, but sorting out the causes makes for the true master mechanic.

it reads like all of those issues are related (intercooler, egr, turbo) and yet they never isolated the main issue.

and the volume of flaming on this forum is barely enough to heat a porta potty...

enjoy your new ride!

cheers
2air'

..
Yep 2air, the four Ford dealers that worked on our F250 continued to give it a clean bill of health after each occurance. I suspect that the EGR was failing causing excessive pressure somewhere in the system confusing the crappy ECM and damaging the turbos until finally the marginal intercooler blew its inadequate plastic tank into our A/C condenser. It sure would seem that someone would have figured there was a connection. Even the Ford Area Service Rep was sub-par in terms of his required duties. His answer was "10 mpg is considered by Ford to be representitive of a typical 6.0 PSD." and of course there is the "if we could pull a code we would have something to work with".

I really don't think I would be able to single out a single dealer for poor performance, besides, all of the diesel pros know that Ford engineers totally jacked up a perfectly good International motor by specifying induction system mods and fuel delivery alterations thinking they (Ford) knew more about diesel motors. In business we call it yield, sure. the majority of product works, but if the yield percentage is below an industry standard, your gonna take a hit in sales when the word gets out. In the auto/truck industry, a yield of 99.6% is necessary to keep a good reputaion. That means Ford or others can afford to screw up 4 vehicles in 1000, the 6.0 PSD outfitted trucks yield is in the 94% range, that is 60 screwed up vehicles out of 1000, and ours was just one of them. And since the Ford accountants set aside a "warranty expense fund" based on the optimistic yield of 99.6%, there is no money to fix the other 56 vehicles, eventually the pressure it put on the warranty advisors at the dealer level to deny necessary long term repairs to correct defects.

Even quality manufacturers have yield problems, but they find the problems early and fix them fast. Toyota and the Tundra is a perfect example, they find it, fess up and then fix it...done.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, there are some great people who work for Ford and their dealers, but they can not overcome a severly dysfunctional business organization that can't control quality and is morally corrupt in dealing with legitimate warranty claims.

Just my opinion, off the soapbox and back to the subject..gassers can be great TVs.

time
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
...
...In business we call it yield, sure. the majority of product works, but if the yield percentage is below an industry standard, your gonna take a hit in sales when the word gets out. In the auto/truck industry, a yield of 99.6% is necessary to keep a good reputaion. That means Ford or others can afford to screw up 4 vehicles in 1000, the 6.0 PSD outfitted trucks yield is in the 94% range, that is 60 screwed up vehicles out of 1000, and ours was just one of them. And since the Ford accountants set aside a "warranty expense fund" based on the optimistic yield of 99.6%, there is no money to fix the other 56 vehicles, eventually the pressure it put on the warranty advisors at the dealer level to deny necessary long term repairs to correct defects.

Even quality manufacturers have yield problems, but they find the problems early and fix them fast. Toyota and the Tundra is a perfect example, they find it, fess up and then fix it...done.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, there are some great people who work for Ford and their dealers, but they can not overcome a severly dysfunctional business organization that can't control quality and is morally corrupt in dealing with legitimate warranty claims.

Just my opinion, off the soapbox and back to the subject..gassers can be great TVs.

time
Wow...I really like your posts.

I feel that your initial post hais great points and although the lemon that you bought would have driven most people mad, you evaluated and moved on. I think that your logic and thinking are well thought out and explained. I love my Dodge Cummins, and wish the gas companies would consider less than double-digit profit/margin percentages acceptable.

Didn't Ford get a lot of publicity for the Pinto gas tanks where their bean counters figured it was cheaper to pay lawsuits from customers killed and maimed than to recall and fix the problem?

I feel that all decisions in manufacturing are a trade-off between cost and perceived benefit (sales increase/decrease), with some weight to public image as well. In many cases, decisions are made by bean-counters, rather than engineers (or consumers).

Thanks for your posts and thanks for all who have posted some poignant thoughts and discussion.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:37 AM   #34
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Brian wrote,
Quote:
Alas, Olivia has 62,000 miles on her, she will be pushing 100,000 by the end of '08. That is why I have begun to consider her replacement.
One of the sharpest and good running vehicles I've ever had was a '94 Chevy half-ton that had 163,000 on it when I bought it in 1998. I bought it knowing I'd replace it with a Dodge Cummins when I retired. I towed my 34' Limited with it for two years (marginal but not bad) before I found my cream-puff Dodge. I drove it to 202,000 and when I couldn't find a buyer I gave it to my son four years ago. Although he is not the best at keeping it maintained, it is still running good and drives GREAT!

If I had a Suburban I really liked I'd hang on to it forever. If you have carefully maintained it over its driving life and are scrupulous with catching needed repairs before they become a breakdown I wouldn't worry about years or miles.

Just my two cents worth.

Gene
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:28 AM   #35
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Actually I'm kind of disappointed. I was hoping this would be an interesting story of someone trading in their tank-pulling truck for a more more fuel efficient vehicle, instead of just trading to another tank-pulling truck that uses different fuel. No disrespect intended...

Gary
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
Which shoes?
The white slip ons with the tassles you always wear with your electric lemon double knit polyester liesure suit.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:46 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
I have to thank kevbo and bob for this thread.

After nearly 20,000 miles of towing our Safari 25 FB/SE around our beautiful country with our 2005 Ford PSD FX4 Crew Cab long bed, we said goodbye to the diesel and bought a 2008 Dodge Power Wagon with a Hemi gasser.

Why you ask, who would be stupid enough to go from an ultimate tow machine to a gasser?

Well, it is all about personal experience and preferences. Our Ford was a solid truck, discounting the 3 turbos, 5 EGR valves, 2 intercoolers and dismal mileage which averaged about 10.5 mpg no matter how we drove it or whether or not we were empty or towing. Keep in mind that these repairs/replacements were in its short 20,000 mile life, not a record that one would be proud of nor one that we were ready to continue. Besides the obvious mechanical issues, the diesel noise, high maintenance costs (oil changes and fuel filter changes are not cheap by any standards, even the air filter was cost more than 3 times that of our Lexus), looking for reasonably priced diesel in CA where it is typically 50 cents per gallon more than regular, trouble finding a place to park 22 feet, our faithful Big Yellow Ford was beating the hell out of our Safari. Although it is nice to have a hulk truck from a safety point of view, the rivited aluminum panels and the glued and screwed interior panels do not like a heavy duty suspensioned truck.

I waited to post this thread until after we towed our Safari a significant distance including tough grades, traffic and inclement weather. Now I can say without reservation, you don't need a big diesel 3/4 ton to tow a 7300 lb Airstream, in fact you don't even need a big block gasser. We do believe the frame and brakes of a 3/4 ton are needed once you hit the 7000 lb AS range. Our new 3/4 ton Dodge with its small block (345c.i./5.7 liter) Hemi gasser hooked up to a 5 speed auto with 2 overdrives and 4.56 differential gears will go anywhere with plenty to spare. Our first tow from OC, CA to Las Vegas was smooth and uneventful and even with less than 1000 miles on the rig, the Dodge provided us with 10.4 mpg average fuel economy using mid grade 89 octane gas. On the trip out, averaging 65 mph, the Hemi ran at 2500 rpm and managed 8.9 mpg. On the return, at 60 mph the Hemi ran at 2200 rpm and averaged 11.8 mpg. Before the trip the city mileage was around 10 mpg, after the trip it is now 11 mpg. These numbers will improve as the motor breaks in, at least that seems to be the word from other owners. Hiway mileage empty will probably be about 14 to 16 mpg. These mpg numbers are typical of real 3/4 ton trucks with gas motors. in some cases, much better than the average.

The reason we picked the Dodge Power Wagon, Quad Cab 4X4 was based on our needs. (1) We wanted a TV that was better suited to around town driving and parking, not to mention a great truck for sight seeing and roaming from our RV park/campround. (2) We also know tha in 3 years we only put on 20,000 miles on the diesel, which really doesn't hit the breakeven for the diesel value propisition. (3) Mid grade gas is cheaper and easier to find than diesel, which helps the cost equation when comparing to what most diesel get for mpg (I know our Ford was an exception at 10.5 mpg). (4) The new diesels here in CA are burdened with extreme emissions systems which have not been proven long term (my opinion). (5) The Power Wagon is a specially built 4X4 truck (very low production numbers like Airstream) with softer than normal springs for a better ride for the AS and comes with what I consider optimal gearing for towing with a gas motor with a payload capacity of 2061 lbs and a tow rating of 10,400 lbs, which easily keeps us under the 80% rule. (6) The Dodge came with a Lifetime Powertrain Warranty which covers everything out to the wheel bearings, I mean everything, I actually read the full warranty and it is solid. (7) It cost $7000 less than a comparable diesel Dodge and even a bigger difference for a Ford or GM. (8) It is the best off road truck built stock from the factory with options only hard core "wheelers" understand. (9) It has a Hemi that sounds great, performs great and the darn thing is just plain fun to drive.

I am not suggesting that a gasser is better than a diesel for everybody, but in our situation, it is the best choice without doubt. Diesels and Gas motors are not created equal, carefully check the options out there, but the most important thing to remember is that you are the one that has to drive it and your personal need (and in some cases want) is the target.

I am ready for the flaming.
No "flaming" to come from me. Sounds like a very rational decision based on your experience. Obviously we all have different experiences and you have to make what you believe is the best decision based on your experience. Good luck with your Power Wagon!
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:09 AM   #38
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Moosetags, They do make a gas blender! FactoryDirect2you: TailGator Portable Gas Powered Blender
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Actually I'm kind of disappointed. I was hoping this would be an interesting story of someone trading in their tank-pulling truck for a more more fuel efficient vehicle, instead of just trading to another tank-pulling truck that uses different fuel. No disrespect intended...

Gary
Towing the Airstream we each have choosen requires a TV of adequate size and power. Towing also requires the use of fuel, plain and simple. There are realtively few choices out there. Technology has not yet provided a better solution, and I believe it will be several years before it does. New fuels (bio) maybe, but no new magic anti-matter engines. All should choose the rig combination they want and can pay for, and have fun. Being "green" doesn't have to mean 100 mpg, it can simply mean using the equipment available with good judgement.

Thanks to those responsible for the nice comments above!
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:11 AM   #40
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Good points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil and/or Sue
Wow...I really like your posts.

I feel that your initial post hais great points and although the lemon that you bought would have driven most people mad, you evaluated and moved on. I think that your logic and thinking are well thought out and explained. I love my Dodge Cummins, and wish the gas companies would consider less than double-digit profit/margin percentages acceptable.

Didn't Ford get a lot of publicity for the Pinto gas tanks where their bean counters figured it was cheaper to pay lawsuits from customers killed and maimed than to recall and fix the problem?

I feel that all decisions in manufacturing are a trade-off between cost and perceived benefit (sales increase/decrease), with some weight to public image as well. In many cases, decisions are made by bean-counters, rather than engineers (or consumers).

Thanks for your posts and thanks for all who have posted some poignant thoughts and discussion.
Thanks Phil and/or Sue,

Your perspective on cost and perceived benefit is all too true, same with your comment on oil companies...you think they would have some level of moral value to go along with the concept of profit.....wishful thinking, but if we stay silent, that would guarantee poor decisions by the corporate structure.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:24 PM   #41
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CONGRATS! I have had great luck with our 2008 f150, leaving next week for the second round of Michigan to california. We stay at the huntingon beach resort while i work the l.a markets. expnsive but a nice walk across the street!!

Each his own, we believe for our 28 foot safari the f150 is very competent. In less than 6 months we will tow over 15k miles, so it comes with experience. I love gas and let her rev, they love it. I always look at the face of the big fiver as i go by him at 65 on the passes. He does not know it has been running 3800 plus rpm for over 30 minutes and no fade and pulling strong. At cruise on the open road usually running 2400 and not in overdrive @65mph and averaging 11.7 on the last 7900 mile run. I would think our overall rig is less weight but then again you have hemi. good luck.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdalrymple
Towing the Airstream we each have choosen requires a TV of adequate size and power. Towing also requires the use of fuel, plain and simple. There are realtively few choices out there. Technology has not yet provided a better solution, and I believe it will be several years before it does. New fuels (bio) maybe, but no new magic anti-matter engines. All should choose the rig combination they want and can pay for, and have fun. Being "green" doesn't have to mean 100 mpg, it can simply mean using the equipment available with good judgement.

Thanks to those responsible for the nice comments above!
Yes, one needs a TV with adequate size and power to get the job done.

TV's of this nature come in all different shapes and sizes! Of course vehicles use fuel. Some will obtain poor fuel mileage others get very good mileage . There are actually a variety of choices that technology has provided for us and they have been available for a number of years now.

Garfield... Although I found TIMEMACHINE"S post of interest I too was looking for something different. Wondering what model of Lexus he owned. Now that would be a vehicle to go on vacation with!
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