Vintage Tow Vehicles

[overlander64]

Greetings mistral blue!

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Pickup not an option -- kids need to come along and I can't have em jumping out of the bed.

Large convertible is what I'm thinking. I just don't know what's a unibody what isn't. Lincoln's went with suicide doors for a reason. wheelbase. engine size. and that always fungible torque#. What I don't know in this area is amazing.

I'm looking for something that will do the job well. I feel undersized with an '03 Tahoe. 5.3 liter.

Can I find a really cool '77 convertible that will tow Vintage Thunder like it wasn't there?

The last year for the full-size 8.2 Liter V8 powered Cadillac Eldorado was 1978; the "last" year for the Eldorado convertible was 1976 (the Eldorado convertible returned for 1984 and 1985 -- but the woefully undersized power-plant renders these later Eldorado convertibles useless for towing -- I own an '84 and it does well to pull itself).

A 1977 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz would make a flamboyant tow vehicle for your Argosy. These cars were loaded with chrome trim, super-padded vinyl tops, and nearly every option was a standard feature (the moon roof was an option, but most that I have seen included this option). Another possibility would be the 1977 Oldsmobile Tornado XSS that has the unusual wrap-around rear window -- would go well with the Arogsy's deep-wrap wing windows -- be prepared as these are far less common than any of the Eldorado models. Either one of these cars would have essentially the same drivetrain utilized in the similar era GMC motorhomes -- there were a few differences in the transaxle, but many components were common as I have learned with the refurbishing of my '75 Eldorado Convertible. The only down side is that the 2.70 final drive was the only choice available with this era Eldorado/Toronado -- 3.05 final drives were the standard prior to about 1973. Another issue to keep in mind is that these large front-drivers shared a unique wheel that is unavailable in new or reproduction -- it has been my experience that it is very nearly impossible to find one of these cars with four wheels that are true and round enough to permit proper balancing -- I am even having problems with fender clearance doe the custom wheels that I had made for my '75 as they wouldn't make them in anything other than 10" wide.

An Imperial, Chrysler New Yorker, or Dodge Monaco from the same time period would provide a substantial tow vehicle with an available 440 cubic inch V8. These would have been among the last of the the four-door-pillarless hardtops manufactured. Overall operating costs may actually be somewhat less than the large, front-drive, Cadillac/Oldsmobile twins.

Towing with a vintage car is one of my favorite adventures -- I was in my shed looking at my collection, and it kept running through my mind how much fun it would be to find a '60 Pacer to tow with my '60 Studebaker Lark VIII convertible (289 V8/4BBL Carb/Dual Exhaust, Flightomatic, and 3.60 Twin Traction differential) -- in the Jonquil Yello and Black color scheme that was promoted in the introductory brochures.

Good luck with your search!

Kevin

[Coloradobus]

Hey Kevin,

When I was a kid, my parent ordered a 1977 New Yorker with the trailer tow pkg. That Package gave heavy duty systems everywhere. It had the 440/ 4 bbl carb, with a 4.10 rear end, large semi truck-like radiator and all the chrome Chrysler could possibly find. It was truly a lux-Oh-barge.
Did 5-7 miles/gallon towing the 31. When they got a bigger Airstream, they went to the Suburban. Great to see your coming to Breckenridge in July.
We have a new vintage tow rig this year. Our '79 Trade Wind will be towed by a 1979 F-250 we found in Palm Springs with only 47,000 actual miles. It drives like a brand new Ford. See you there.

[overlander64]

Greetings Jim and Chris!

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

Hey Kevin,

When I was a kid, my parent ordered a 1977 New Yorker with the trailer tow pkg. That Package gave heavy duty systems everywhere. It had the 440/ 4 bbl carb, with a 4.10 rear end, large semi truck-like radiator and all the chrome Chrysler could possibly find. It was truly a lux-Oh-barge.
Did 5-7 miles/gallon towing the 31. When they got a bigger Airstream, they went to the Suburban. Great to see your coming to Breckenridge in July.
We have a new vintage tow rig this year. Our '79 Trade Wind will be towed by a 1979 F-250 we found in Palm Springs with only 47,000 actual miles. It drives like a brand new Ford. See you there.

My hometown Chrysler dealer was one of the primary organizers of our local auto shows, and I always remember the large Chrysler products. Our neighbors at the time had a 1977 Town and Country Wagon, and that was one of my favorite station wagons, but as your parents discovered the 440 definitely was thirsty -- but quite powerful -- my mother remarked the first time she rode in the Town and Country that it was like the children were in the next county when they road in the third seat. It is only in the last year or two that the Town and Country disappeared from the neighborhood -- the wood-grain side panel treatment was removed sometime in the 1980s with metallic gold paint being the replacement (the car was white with brown leather interior).

It sounds like you made quite a find with the low mileage '79 F250 -- in this area it is very unusual to find any pickup that has low miles.

I am really looking forware to Breckenridge, and it looks like my Eldorado will be towing the Minuet. I finally found a wheel and tire specilaist here in Central Illinois who is "relatively" certain that he will be able to straighten and true OEM wheel (I have 14 from various auto dismantlers to try) -- I even managed to acquire a set of the OEM Brass valve stems that have a near 45 degree bend in them -- much heavier in construction than the replacements that I was sold with my last set of tires.

Will be looking forward to seeing you in Breckenridge!

Kevin

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Pickup not an option -- kids need to come along and I can't have em jumping out of the bed.

Large convertible is what I'm thinking. I just don't know what's a unibody what isn't. Lincoln's went with suicide doors for a reason. wheelbase. engine size. and that always fungible torque#. What I don't know in this area is amazing.

I'm looking for something that will do the job well. I feel undersized with an '03 Tahoe. 5.3 liter.

Can I find a really cool '77 convertible that will tow Vintage Thunder like it wasn't there?

I, of course, agree that a large '70s convertible makes a great TV and a head turner. I have owned 2 Buick Centurion convertibles in the past 20 years and have towed several trailers. This is our current gem, a '71 Buick Centurion with 455 factory performance (never been opened) engine. It weighs the same as our '66 Tradewind and together.......well.

Neil and Lynn

[overlander64]

Greetings mistral blue!

Originally Posted by mistral blue

Large convertible is what I'm thinking. I just don't know what's a unibody what isn't. Lincoln's went with suicide doors for a reason. wheelbase. engine size. and that always fungible torque#. What I don't know in this area is amazing.

Can I find a really cool '77 convertible that will tow Vintage Thunder like it wasn't there?

I am afraid, that by 1977 the factory-made, full-sized, big-block V-8 powered convertible was a thing of the past. Based on records (old NADA books) the full-sized convertibles parished as follows:

• 1976 -- Cadillac Edlorado convertible was the last to perish
  • Reincarnated briefly in 1984-85 as mid-size Eldorado Biarritz Convertible (powered by 4.1 liter all-aluminum V8).
• 1975 -- GM full-sized convertibles perished a year earlier
  • Buick Centurion/LeSabre
  • Chevrolet Caprice Classic
  • Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale
  • Pontiac Grandville Brougham*
    • The Grandville Brougham shared the distinction with Cadillac in 1975 in that it received the small rectangular quad headlights a year or more before the balance of the GM line.
    • The infamous grasshopper top was featured on all 1971 through end of production GM full-size convertibles -- rather than folding accordian style, it moves up -- then collapses inward before folding down requiring a troublesome bow over the driver's head that is attached with ball joints.
• 1972 -- Ford LTD convertible perishes
• 1970 -- Mercury Marquis convertible perishes
• 1970 -- Full-size Chrysler convertibles perish (I thought it was '72, but the last listing in my vintage NADA books was for the '70 models).
• 1970 -- Plymouth Fury convertible perishes
• 1970 -- Dodge Polara convertible perishes
• 1968 -- Imperial convertible perishes
• 1967 -- Lincoln convertible perishes

While the 1961-1967 Continental and the late 1950's through 1970's Mopar convertibles were uni-body construction; they were not uncommon tow vehicles in their day. Today, one of my favorite tow vehicles is my '65 Dodge Coronet 500 convertible -- the key with these uni-body cars is to have an experienced hitch fabricator fabricate the hitch -- I was lucky in that my local Chrysler dealer had been in business for over 40 years when I wanted to have the hitch fabricated for my '65 -- he was able referr me to a local fabricator who did an excellent job fabricating my hitch (it is still functioning beautifully after more than 25 years of use).

Good luck with your search!

Kevin

[safari57]

Neil

I love those pics of your car and trailer. It's like they were built for each other.

Mistral Blue

A lot of folks, heck almost everyone, wouldn't have a clue if your TV and Airstream were as much as ten years apart, as long as they are vintage. I know it may count for you but there's a ton of options out there in late 60's and early 70's converts. Cars like Neils are highly desireable so they don't come particularly inexpensively when they are in that kind of condition. But there's some of them out there. AutoTrader and many other websites have them listed. If you need to have some websites to check out let me know and I can provide a few as I'm sure others on this thread can as well. A tough decision to make for you and your family - I'm lucky that my wife not only is as enthusiastic about the vintage cars as I am and as well is for now the primary driver and has no qualms about it. Life is good!

Barry

[mistral blue]

The last few nights I've been surfing through so many sites. I think I've fallen in love about 25 times in the last 48 hours. Convertibles, wagons, burbs, sedans, I pause over each new love and remember people, places, things I haven't thought of in years. One of my (many) problems is that I don't know which sites I can trust. I feel like I need to find a place close to home so I can go out and inspect it, touch it, drive it. One place I drive by everyday, however, is Sales body but I'm guessing they're way out of my league.

Another major issue, and I hope you won't refuse to talk to me anymore, is that I'm not a car guy like all of you. You guys are so much cooler than me it's not funny. You know how they work! You can put them together. I can't even imagine the satisfaction that must give you when you've restored/saved something as old and beautiful as a '57 Chevy or a '51 Flying Cloud. I wouldn't blame you guys in the least if you looked down your noses at those guys with the "big bucks" who come along and buy fully restored cars/trailers. "They don't even know what they have for goodness sake." That's me minus the big bucks by the way. To get a really cool TV I'm going to have to sell off a few things first. Stuff I really like. But I'll do it for the right ride. It's gonna take time. The right Vintage TV for us will present itself in due course. Of this I'm sure. Life IS good!

[safari57]

Mistral Blue

It has been my experience that almost no one looks down on someone who's not automotively inclined. For some of us it's a passion, for others it's interesting, and for others if it isn't new why bother? It's just like this Airstream community, just a tad bigger. You are right, the right one will jump out at you. It is always good when you can touch, smell, feel and drive it. You do want to make sure you have it properly inspected by a real mechanic as sadly in the car hobby there are lot's of folks who leverage other peoples inexperience to make money off of vehicles that are worth far less. The best way to learn is to start noting what prices the cars you like are consistently listing for in good to excellent condition. Also a magazine called Cars and Parts I believe run from time to time price guides for vintage cars. Someone on the thread may know which magazine it is for sure but I think that's the one.

It will be very interesting to see what you eventually find. The search is a big part of the fun (and frustration) I was bopping on eBay tonight and found a 55 Buick convert in very nice almost original shape. It turned out to be a scammer from the looks of it as the price was a third of what they sell for in that shape.

Good luck with your search and don't be afraid to ask about various cars you think about or see as many of the folks on the thread have had a lot of experience with a wide variety of makes, models and years judging by the comments we've seen so far.

Barry

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by safari57

Good luck with your search and don't be afraid to ask about various cars you think about or see as many of the folks on the thread have had a lot of experience with a wide variety of makes, models and years judging by the comments we've seen so far.
Barry

Thank you everyone. This group is a class act.

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by overlander64

Greetings mistral blue!



I am afraid, that by 1977 the factory-made, full-sized, big-block V-8 powered convertible was a thing of the past. Based on records (old NADA books) the full-sized convertibles parished.
Kevin

If I remember correctly the 70's convertibles disappeared because of government pressure for safety during potential roll overs. The manufacturers were fearing a call to include roll bars. Also remember the required 5 mph crash bumpers? All the cars sported those oversized bumpers housing shocks behind the bumpers. My daughters '74MG had to have the large bumpers. Boy did that spoil a classic look!

Neil and Lynn.

[Action]

Scott.

Your '77 TC (body on frame construstion) is more than to pull your 23' Safari. Properly equipped (and in good condition) the TC would be rated to tow 5000 #'s at least. And the Safari will be less than that. I would recommend bolting versus welding and either way would be acceptable for mounting the hitch.

The unibody Lincolns ended in 1969. All were body over frame from that time forward. The last production Lincoln vert was the 1967. Also the last 4 door vert ever. (unless there is one from the last couple of years) A 4 door vert is such a rare thing. Almost all convertibles are 2 doors.

And Mistral Blue, the best advise I can give you is by the best example of what you want that you can find. Spend the big buck up front. It will save you money over the total life of the ownership. If you buy a fixer upper and you have to learn on it, you will get discouraged a nd your significatnt other will be concerned too over the long period of work it takes before usage. Delayed gratification can be a pain, and when the prize is achieved it's way cool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[wkerfoot]

Scott,

Here are two pictures of the hitch on my Towncar. One of the left side where it bolts to the frame and one of the center.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Regarding Action's comment on the towing capacity, the owners manual states 6,000 lbs with a 3.0 rear axle. I have the 2.75 axle.

Bill

[mistral blue]

In yesterday's Cub Scout "Concours d'Elegance" (Pinewood Derby), the "Judge's Favorite" award was given to my son Donal for his entry, Vintage Thunder, Jr. The paint used was the exact same autobody paint as used on the original Vintage Thunder. The wheels had to be extended outside the body to accommodate the track. (They can come back in.) J. Rick Cipot, aka rickandsandi, provided all of the knowhow, power tools and quite a few Saturdays in a row to help Donal create his masterpiece. And Rick's 13-year old daughter Sarah was instrumental in creating the propane tanks.

I only posted this to see if you think a tow vehicle similar to what's pictured below might work. I'm sorry if I mistakenly added too many pictures.
I'm just learning how to do this!

[Action]

The '66 Lincoln is equipped to tow up to 3500 #'s with no additional equippment. (Class I and II) To tow up to 5000 #'s the 3.00 axle ratio is needed also. When new this axle ratio was a N/C option for '66.

In addition to that is a load leveling hitch (bars) if the tongue weight is over 200#'s.

Lastly the Continental required trailer brakes on any trailer over 1500 #'s.

Bill, how much does your Liner and your Safari weigh?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Action

The '66 Lincoln is equipped to tow up to 3500 #'s with no additional equippment. (Class I and II) To tow up to 5000 #'s the 3.00 axle ratio is needed also. When new this axle ratio was a N/C option for '66.

In addition to that is a load leveling hitch (bars) if the tongue weight is over 200#'s.

Lastly the Continental required trailer brakes on any trailer over 1500 #'s.

Bill, how much does your Liner and your Safari weigh?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

Action,

The Safari has a gross weight of 5800 lbs. The Liner is unknown at this time. Empty it is about 3000 lbs, I have 3500 lbs axles and 1750 lbs springs. As I remember the gross weight was originally about 5400 lbs.

Bill

[Action]

Wow!!!!

Dry that Safari would be about 3900 based on the A/S site.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Action

Wow!!!!

Dry that Safari would be about 3900 based on the A/S site.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

50 gallons of water, for 400 lbs, two 30 lb propane bottles for another 60 lbs, air conditioner. Now probabley up to 4500 plus. Plenty of room for gear. I have not weighed the trailer, that is what the plate on the front states.

Bill

[commander31]

Thanks to both you guys for all your input---- Bill, and "Action".....

Boy, what a busy and productive weekend for me, Airstream and "TV" wise!!

Spent Saturday afternoon and evening with a friend who is doing a complete "body off resto" on a clone '69 23' Safari. I call it the "Extreme Makeover, Airstream Edition"..... haha... He will have one of the most beautiful, and practical trailers I will ever see, when he finishes.... It is also giving me a rare opportunity to see the "entrails" of my own trailer, and that will be a great asset in a future project or resto of my own trailer. Seeing it last fall with the body suspended a few feet above the floorboards and frame was a rare opportunity indeed.

Anyways, he has given me lots of advice, and help along the way, and also given me a few "spare parts" that he will not use in his resto..... that always helps...

He gave me the quick lesson in "Furnaces 101" as we both have the original furnaces in our Safaris. I actually got motivated to inspect mine yesterday afternoon, and when I finally got it all up and running, it took me a little while to get the pilot light to stay lit, but after awhile, it took, and the furnace lit right off!!! Within minutes it was toasty warm, and 70 inside the trailer!!! Yippee !!!!. The only thing I noticed that will need attention is that the regulator between the two propane tanks seems to leak a small bit, and you can smell it.... the "overflow hole" from the bottom of the regulator seems to be the culprit. Do I attempt to repair this, or just replace with a new regulator??

On to the hitch, and TV subject. I finally got around to contacting my friend last week, who is the fabricator extraordinaire, and he loves a challenge, and he spent an evening figuring out how we would make the front brackets for my hitch, as it appeared that someone had altered this from the factory style. Bill, your hitch on your '77 TC looks way more conventional, and like what I am used to seeing.... mine may have been a vintage or a custom made hitch from back in the day....as it appears to be three times the size, and it attaches in the front section also, almost underneath the gas tank... Frankly this hitch looks heavy enough to pull a freight train with!!!! My buddy had to alter the design a bit, and he undid the "jury rig" that someone had done years ago to this hitch, and we welded two large plates vertically from the frame and he machined and drilled two mounting holes in mating brackets, on the hitch itself, and it will thence, be removable if need be. The idea of welding this baby solid scared me, cuz knowing my luck, as soon as we welded it up there in place, my gas tank would spring a leak, and I would hafta get out the cutting torch to the hitch!!!
So, anyways, the hitch is on, it is complete, and with the Reese reciever I have, the height from top of hitch ball to the ground is exactly 19". This is what my 69 Airstream Owners Manual sez is the optimum height. Now to figger out how this car will sit with the trailer hooked up, and with the equalizer bars cinched up.... I am very curious if I can cinch them up to make the car sit level, or if it will be air bag time. ???? Unfortunately, it is quite moist outside right now, here on the shores of Lake Erie, it is "snaining" outside... and the Safari is on the grass next to the garage, so i won't be pulling the "TownHouse" over there too soon..... I will try to snap a couple pictures for you Bill of my own hitch installation......

Action, I like your choice of Vintage TV with your 66 Merc with a 410. That was a neat motor, only a 2 yr run if memory serves me correctly... A cross breed between a 390 and a 428. It was replaced by the larger 428 by 68 I believe... I had a 65 Monterey many yrs ago, and always search ebay and other places for a nice one....but in Michigan, they rusted something terrible, esp. the frames around the torque boxes....
And speaking of the unibody sixties Continentals, I do remember our Michigan Unit President and his wife, back around 1971, Alvin and Marilyn Williams....They led our pack of over 150 trailers in caravan from Marshall, Mich to Salem, Oregon for the International rally that year.... Al had a '65 Continental Sedan in Gray with a black interior, boy that was a sharp car.... pulling a '65 or '66 Sovereign. But I don't honestly recall anyone else in the MI unit having one of those. I had a beautiful '64 Sedan several yrs ago, and would undoubtedly be outfitting that car to pull my Safari if i still had the car!!!. I believe they have a rear "sub frame" of sorts, and i would not anticipate any unique problems in fabricating a hitch for that car.... They all had the tried and true 430 V8 from 61 to 65, replaced by the 462 in 66, then upgraded to the 460 "385" series in mid year 68. Some 68s have the 462, some later ones were 460 equipped.

Oh well, i have rambled long enough......time to make a pot of joe !!!

[Action]

Originally Posted by commander31

The only thing I noticed that will need attention is that the regulator between the two propane tanks seems to leak a small bit, and you can smell it.... the "overflow hole" from the bottom of the regulator seems to be the culprit. Do I attempt to repair this, or just replace with a new regulator??

No replace the unit before you use it again. Escaping propane isn't good for your health.

You have a good memory. The 428 was built along with the 410. Not sure why FOMOCO built the 410 for the 2 years. However is was cheap to produce. No new parts. Just the crank of a 428 in a 390 makes it a 410.

As a native Michigander, (And former employee of the blue oval.) I can relate to your weather. It is a significant part of the reason that I do not live there now. Good luck to your adventure in travels by land. Keep us updated.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[scottanlily]

The 410 was called the mercury marauder or the 410 marauder and was a very strong runner.kicked the 390s can hands down ,unless you had a 67 390 mustang fastback GTA like we had when I was a kid ,but if it had the 410 Hmmm ,good stuff. nothing like it .Can you guys say BIG BLOCK !?


Scott of scottanlily

68 travelall 030 over 392 = 397 cid or 6.5 litres, 5 speed fuller trans, 4x4, A/C, P/S

getrdone !