Vintage tow vehicle

[wasagachris]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

What year? Lincolns are great tow vehicles.

Bill

Hi Bill it's a 1973 Lincoln Town Car of course. I'm slowly building matching set ups for all my trailers.
I'm still searching for the right deal on a 1961 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr convertible and the ever elusive 1947 Lincoln Continental 2 Dr convertible.

[wkerfoot]

I understand your need for a 1961 Lincoln, but I prefer the 1964. Nicer dash and the wheelbase is 4" or so longer, all in the back seat.

Bill

Originally Posted by wasagachris

Hi Bill it's a 1973 Lincoln Town Car of course. I'm slowly building matching set ups for all my trailers.
I'm still searching for the right deal on a 1961 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr convertible and the ever elusive 1947 Lincoln Continental 2 Dr convertible.

[overlander64]

Greetings wasagachris!

Originally Posted by wasagachris

I just aquired this beast for a TV for my 73 Excella. I think the 460 cubes under the hood should pull it down the road.
No problem with the tail wagging the dog either as I'm guessing the car weighs nearly as much as the trailer.
Attachment 146120Attachment 146121
I'm flying out Sunday to drive it home from Florida.
I had the car inspected locally by a friend of mine and it is mint and in excellent mechanical condition too. It should make the 1300 mile journey no problem except for numerous stops for fuel.

I am sure that you will enjoy towing your Excella with the Lincoln! As with my Eldorado, I am sure you will become familiar with many fuel suppliers along your route -- particularly when you are towing. It became more than interesting a few times in the Rocky Mountains when towing to the WBCCI International Rally in Bozeman, Montana with my Eldorado -- wondering whether the 27 gallon fuel tank had enough range to make it to the next town with fuel at slightly under 7 MPG.

If you decide to chronicle your retrieval adventure on the Forums, I will be one of the avid followers of your new adventure.

Good luck with your retrieval adventure!

Kevin

[slowmover]

The 460 can be a great motor. Too bad it debuted in the smog years. The engines are de-tuned by retarded camshaft via timing chain (with nylon gears), IIRC.

I'd expect 12-14 mpg solo.

Sure a great looking example!

[RVGuyRaleigh]

Yes...I also may have mis spoke. The 67-70 that I am looking for is basically a DeVille convertable and yes, it is rear wheel drive. I think the FWD would not be enough for a 31'

Originally Posted by overlander64

Greetings Neil!

Welcome to the Forums and the world of Vintage Airstream Ownership!



I have towed rather extensively with my '75 Cadillac Edlorado Convertible. Your Excella 500 would concern me from the standpoint of weight. The trailer tow rating of the 1973-1978 Eldorados was 6,000 pounds. While my '75 does well with my '64 Overlander, I wouldn't want to tow any more weight with the car as it does struggle more than I would like in the hills.

One of the greatest limitations that I know of is the final drive ratio. With the 1967 Eldorado, my understanding is that 3.07 or 3.05 was the only final drive ratio available. This is somewhat better than the 2.70 that became stock in the 1973 and later Eldorados. Changing the final drive ratio is economically difficult to justify. Hitch adjustment is paramount with an Eldorado as it is very easy to loose traction at the front wheels if there is insufficient weight being transferred forward by the weight distributing hitch.

It is possible to beef up the transmission/final drive as it is shared with the GMC Motorhome of the mid-1970s. The TurboHydramatic 425 is the same front wheel drive setup utilized in the GMC Motorhome . . . so there are some heavy duty components available that are interchangeable.






I had to go through the following to get my '75 Eldorado tow-ready:

• Custom 4-row-core Heavy Duty Radiator
• Heavy duty transmission fluid cooler
• Moog Cargo Coil replacement rear springs
• Monroe (rear) air shocks (car had factory level-ride)
• AirLift (rear) spring inserts (inflated to 15 psi for additional stability)
• Four Rebuilt stock Steel Wheels (these wheels are notorious for being out-of-round and/or being bent) I even tried to find aftermarket wheels, but none are currently available with the correct offset, size, and weight rating to permit towing with the Cadillac.
• New Monroe front shocks.
• Front torsion bars adjusted for maximum lift. Ideally, I would have preferred new torsion bars but none were available according to my extensive search.
• Heavy duty alternator . . . went with one that was normally utilized in the P30 motorhome . . . . made the car much happier when towing in city traffic.
• Heavy duty starter . . . went with one designed for the P30 motorhome chassis . . . eliminated hot start difficulties following fueling stops.
• Installed complete dual exhaust system including dual catalytic converters . . . this wouldn't be an issue with your 1967 or pre-1975 Eldorados.
• Custom Welder-Fabricated Reese Hitch. This was the most difficult obstacle as it was a major multi-month search to find a welder who was willing to custom-fabricate a hitch
• Hayes-Lemmerz Electronic Trailer Brake Controller with optional remote control button.
• Five 245/75-R-15 special limousine tires . . . needed for additional weight carrying capacity when towing.

The only thing that your 1967 might require that my '75 didn't would be valve seat inserts. I don't believe that GM started utilizing hardened valve seat for no-lead or low-lead fuels until 1971. If the valve seats aren't hardened for no-lead fuels, valve recission would likely become a problem rather quickly particularly when towing a 31' Airstream.

I owned my '75 Eldorado prior to the purchase of my Airstream so I pressed it into service as a tow vehicle. Had I purchased the Cadillac after the Airstream, I would have held out for a 1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible. The DeVille provides the option of changing differential gearing very easily when compared to the Eldorado . . . and there are far fewer "unique" parts on the DeVille that can be an issue when being utilized as a tow vehicle . . . the wheels are a much more readily available size and offset . . . and there are a number of possibilities available in the aftermarket.

The photo below is of my Eldorado towing the Overlander for the first time . . . we had just completed a 200 mile trip returning from having the Reese hitch properly installed by Ace Fogdall RV in Cedar Falls, Iowa:



The photo below is of the Eldorado several years later. The wheels are aftermarket Boyd Coddington Wheels . . . they improved the solo performance of the car, but there was insufficient clearance for the the wheel/tire combination when towing.



Overall, I am happy with my Eldorado as a tow vehicle for my Minuet, but I would only consider it marginal for my Overlander. My longest trip was with the Minuet in 2008 . . . we traveled from Carbondale, IL to the WBCCI International Rally in Bozeman, Mt. During that trip, we encountered numerous steep grades (included Yellowstone National Park and Glacier National Park in the tour) and the combination was able to handle grades . . . steepest in 1st gear at 25 MPH. For the trip, fuel economy varied from 6 MPG to 10 MPG while towing.

Good luck with your research and investigation!

Kevin

P.S.: I hope that I didn't jump the gun. It just occurred to me that 1967 might have been the last year for the rear-wheel-drive Eldorado.

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by overlander64

Greetings wasagachris!



I am sure that you will enjoy towing your Excella with the Lincoln! As with my Eldorado, I am sure you will become familiar with many fuel suppliers along your route -- particularly when you are towing. It became more than interesting a few times in the Rocky Mountains when towing to the WBCCI International Rally in Bozeman, Montana with my Eldorado -- wondering whether the 27 gallon fuel tank had enough range to make it to the next town with fuel at slightly under 7 MPG.

If you decide to chronicle your retrieval adventure on the Forums, I will be one of the avid followers of your new adventure.

Good luck with your retrieval adventure!

Kevin

I know the feeling. Our Buick 455 has a 25 gallon tank and a fuel gauge that 'hangs' up. Until I get to pulling the tank to replace the fuel sender I have to trust the odometer. Ive gotten very good at knowing just when to look for a service station. On trips that I am unfamiliar with, like the locales of service stations I pack 2 extra gallons in the trunk. Not too wild about that but it did save us once. I noticed one adaption of a jeep can behind the propane tanks on the tongue......I gotta put that suggestion outta my head. I'm using 1000# WDH bars now.
Neil

[robandzoe]

Can be seen here:

1957 Internationa Harvester Metro Restoration

[bevman]

Just got a new tow rig, 1959 GMC 100S Fleetside w stock 336 and "Hydramatic". My "regular" car insurance (Hartford via AARP) will only insure it for original sticker price ($2,700 in '59). I contacted Hagerty and was denied since I (stupidly) admitted to wanting to use it to tow, and was going to keep it in my carport. They won't let you tow, and want a full, lockable garage. How do you classic car people get insurance to use with your bitchin' trailers?

Thanks, in advance.

[Denis4x4]

Originally Posted by wasagachris

Hi Bill it's a 1973 Lincoln Town Car of course. I'm slowly building matching set ups for all my trailers.
I'm still searching for the right deal on a 1961 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr convertible and the ever elusive 1947 Lincoln Continental 2 Dr convertible.

Send me a PM as my neighbor has a '47 Continental convertable with late model Ford running gear for sale. This is an outstanding cair inside and out.

[bredlo]

Originally Posted by bevman

I contacted Hagerty and was denied since I (stupidly) admitted to wanting to use it to tow, and was going to keep it in my carport...

Not stupid at all: if you got in a fender bender while towing and hadn't told 'em, they'd fight tooth and nail against paying the claim anyhow. I'm sure it'd be in the fine print as well, which you'd have to sign.

I looked at a dozen insurers - classic and non - and they all said the same thing: if I tow with an old car, they have nothing for me. Oddly, a few weeks ago I heard through the Tin Can Tourists' Facebook page that Hagerty is thinking about adding coverage for vintage trailers. I'm not sure, though, if that means they'd insure a vintage vehicle while towing too, though.

I did find out, for our situation, that Progressive will insure a vintage vehicle and vintage trailer, being used simultaneously - for an agreed value. So once we're finished with everything and have all the receipts, if I can get them to agree to our dollar figure - and that others would be covered if we cause an accident, for example - I'd give that a try. I'll try to remember to post an update when I'm further along in the process.

Regardless, surely others must've figured something out by now, considering the incredible rigs you see at the Pismo Beach vintage trailer rallies!

[bevman]

Brad,
Thanks for the info! My initial internet search did point me to Progressive, but their website mentions that their classic division is "powered by Hagerty..." so I went directly to H, first. Interesting to note that they might be the ones that can help us.
-M

[bevman]

Also, crazy in this insurance game, Hartford was more than happy to insure my 58 Flying Cloud for "agreed value" without any discussion or valuation hoops through which I had to jump.

[robert claus]

My old Alfas are insured with American Modern Insurance Group, and my old motorcycles with Continental Western (my Airstream is on my regular car insurance - Travelers). American Modern seems to be flexible - they picked up one car for me before it was 25 years old because I put so few miles on it.
Just a couple of places to try that you may not have come across. My agent is Rally Insurance in Rolling Meadows, IL. They may not be able to write a policy for CA, but they've been very helpful to me.

[Denis4x4]

Over the years, I've had a number of cars plus an antique Chris-Craft insured with Hagerty. When I discussed insuring a 60 year old travel trailer (restored), the sticking point was the propane stove and heater. Never got coverage and it was destroyed when the storage shed it was in caved in under a heavy snow load. Too, if you have an umbrella policy, some companies will not extend that coverage to vehicles covered by another company like Hagerty.

[hampstead38]

We have an agreed upon value through Progressive for the '67 Overlander. The '67 Dodge D200 is still a work in progress, but my plan was to go with Progressive. As a well established customer, hopefully, they'll work with us. It's worth a try.

[Denis4x4]

Originally Posted by wasagachris

Hi Bill it's a 1973 Lincoln Town Car of course. I'm slowly building matching set ups for all my trailers.
I'm still searching for the right deal on a 1961 Lincoln Continental 4 Dr convertible and the ever elusive 1947 Lincoln Continental 2 Dr convertible.

Since there's no way to PM or email you, thought I'd take one more shot at contacting you regarding a 1946 Lincoln Continental 2 dr. convertible that's been restored and has late model Ford running gear.

[CMSmith]

I know this is an old thread, but it interests me. My 1999 suburban is starting to show signs of wanting to retire, so I started thinking about a "new" one to go with my '75 Tradewind. I would love to find a restored/mostly restored '68-'72ish suburban to use as a daily driver and a tow vehicle. Assuming the frame is in good shape (and won't fall apart with the weight of towing) what all needs to be done to these older trucks to make them good for modern day towing? Can a new truck suspension be bolted on? Certainly would want to get disc brakes on at least the front (like my '99), but what else has everyone done to these older cars to make them usable for towing? I don't want to get in over my head, but I am seriously considering it.
I have a '65 C10 that is mostly original and I know it couldn't handle even hitching up as it is (it's bumper would drag). I really want to find an old 3door suburban.

[J. Morgan]

The suspension, brakes, drivetrain are all more than capable of doing the job on a properly specced Suburban of the era you noted, the problem would be finding one that isn't worn out.

Of course one could be restored better than new, but it will cost some bucks unless you were to get lucky and find a good restored one for a good price.

[Gene]

CM, you mean something like the photo? It is a Chevy Carryall, the predecessor to the Suburban. I think it is mid-60's (maybe 1964) as is the trailer. They were at the 2011 Balloon Fiesta.

Restoration is an expensive hobby. I think that once we get used to the much safer, more comfortable and more powerful vehicles of the present , driving a 1960's vehicle could be quite scary.

Gene

[Klatawa]

HI CM, The pic is our 65 burb and 65 Tradewind. We completed the Tradewind in April of 2011 and now have logged over 30 thousand miles on both sense then. We have already gone threw one set of trailer tires already. In the past 5 years I have gone threw the running gear it has a 350 with a 350 turbo and Gear Vender over drive. The front drums have been replaced with power disc brakes and the rear end is all new with axels, bearings, 4.11 gears and posi carrier. I installed power steering and replaced all of the coil springs, basically all new. In 2010 I took the burb down to bare metal and replaced a lot of sheetmetal and painted it Chevy light green. If you have the mechanical ability finding one to fix up may be an option but finding one already done is the better way to go. We put 4600 miles on the Burb and trailer this winter with a 2 month trip to AZ the only issue I had was with the Gear Vendor and I had the Part with me. Rain was the issue with the speed generator and that was not the problem until we got back to the Norhwest.
Dave