Vintage tow vehicle

[slowmover]

My grandparents used a 1968 Dodge Monaco (V8-440/3.23 Sureflite) to pull their 27' Streamline, and my parent first TV for their 1975 Silver Streak was a 1976 Cadillac (V8-500/3.21 posi). The Streamline was a good deal lighter than the S/S, and the Dodge was by far the superior towing vehicle due to it's lighter weight, unibody construction, lower center of gravity -- and better F/R balance -- as well as having a ripsnort engine. He also had his hitch rigging better sorted than my Dad, but he also had the advantage of being a full-timer.

I'd stay away from old trucks as they handle like turds . . . it's a real backwards step unless, of course, one has a modern chassis underneath. And the steering is as numb as can be. Not a vehicle to run the roads of today, IMO. Yes, I've driven them and, no, I disagree that they make good TV's today. But I'd say the same about any pre-1965 car (really, pre-1968 when dual chamber master brake cylinders became mandatory, and disc brakes up front were at least optional; and, yes, I've owned 4-whl drum brake cars. It ain't so easy to keep the adjustment perfected on all four wheels).

That Sub/Arg combo is gorgeous! And the right way to go for the "vintage" appeal. Got shoulder harnesses and a collapsing steering column on it?

I'd enjoy doing up a Suburban, a DESOTO Suburban on a modern truck chassis.

DeSoto Suburban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1951 DeSoto Suburban cars - long term report / car review with trailer towing

[74"Twinkie"]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

I'd stay away from old trucks as they handle like turds . . . it's a real backwards step unless, of course, one has a modern chassis underneath. And the steering is as numb as can be. Not a vehicle to run the roads of today, IMO. Yes, I've driven them and, no, I disagree that they make good TV's today. But I'd say the same about any pre-1965 car (really, pre-1968 when dual chamber master brake cylinders became mandatory, and disc brakes up front were at least optional; and, yes, I've owned 4-whl drum brake cars. It ain't so easy to keep the adjustment perfected on all four wheels).

That Sub/Arg combo is gorgeous! And the right way to go for the "vintage" appeal. Got shoulder harnesses and a collapsing steering column on it?

I'd enjoy doing up a Suburban, a DESOTO Suburban on a modern truck chassis.

__________________________________________________ ______________
I agree, my 50 in it's original form would have made for a poor TV. It was in bad shape before i started, so hopefully i haven't offended any purists with my hybrid.
The steering column is from the 82' w/tilt. The seats are out of a 2001 Suburban with integrated safety belts (nice not to have to find mounting spots for the shoulder straps). Leather and 6 way electric are nice too.
That Desoto looks like it would be a great project.

[mikmilr]

74Twinky,

Thats way beyond cool.

Mike

[Ganaraska]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

My grandparents used a 1968 Dodge Monaco (V8-440/3.23 Sureflite) to pull their 27' Streamline, and my parent first TV for their 1975 Silver Streak was a 1976 Cadillac (V8-500/3.21 posi). The Streamline was a good deal lighter than the S/S, and the Dodge was by far the superior towing vehicle due to it's lighter weight, unibody construction, lower center of gravity -- and better F/R balance -- as well as having a ripsnort engine. He also had his hitch rigging better sorted than my Dad, but he also had the advantage of being a full-timer.

I'd stay away from old trucks as they handle like turds . . . it's a real backwards step unless, of course, one has a modern chassis underneath. And the steering is as numb as can be. Not a vehicle to run the roads of today, IMO. Yes, I've driven them and, no, I disagree that they make good TV's today. But I'd say the same about any pre-1965 car (really, pre-1968 when dual chamber master brake cylinders became mandatory, and disc brakes up front were at least optional; and, yes, I've owned 4-whl drum brake cars. It ain't so easy to keep the adjustment perfected on all four wheels).

That Sub/Arg combo is gorgeous! And the right way to go for the "vintage" appeal. Got shoulder harnesses and a collapsing steering column on it?

I'd enjoy doing up a Suburban, a DESOTO Suburban on a modern truck chassis.

http://www.fmm.co.za/userimages/Deso...rban_1_big.jpg

DeSoto Suburban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1951 DeSoto Suburban cars - long term report / car review with trailer towing

Love the story of the long term DeSoto Suburban. I've seen it before. Note, he powers that 6000 lb whale with a 251 cu in 116HP flathead six (later bored out to 269 cu in and a whopping 130HP) AND tows a 15 foot trailer (GVW of car and trailer, 8490lbs) all over the west, from Death Valley to Yellowstone park. Favorite quote, "at high altitude and 70MPH it smooths out like a turbine" also he had personally put 180,000 miles on at the time of writing.

So much for needing a 400HP truck to tow a trailer LOL.

[silverleeper]

Originally Posted by safari57

There are quite a few folks I know of who tow their Airstreams with mid 60's Suburbans as well. There are suspension kits, disc brake conversion kits, and swapping power trains is very simple. They take well to later model interiors, lots of room, look good, and can usually be bought for a reasonable price. Check them for rust though, as depending on how it spent its life.........

Barry

Here is an example of a "60's Suburban". It's a nice riding rig and you can still get parts and lots different of upgrades. This old school SUV has disk brakes, 454 with a th400 and a solid drive line. Ive also added adjustable rear airbags. The Burb is not the show stopper that 74"Twinkie" has but, we like it. The interior of 74"Twinkie"s Argosy is also something to see.

[hampstead38]

I think we're all a bit spoiled. I had a '52 Chevy truck as a daily driver. It wasn't bad, though I will readily admit modern rigs are a bit more comfortable. And they tend to handle better. I think the key with a vintage rig is just moving more slowly and taking a bit more care.

When I restored the '52, I kept everything original. I understand the concept of putting a vintage body over a modern chassis, but there's something about it that doesn't feel quite right. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

My wife and I have gone back and forth. If I had the shop space, I wouldn't mind picking up a vintage truck, but right now I just don't have the room... nor do I really have the time to take on another serious restoration project. Maybe after the Overlander is road ready, we'll think about it. I'll keep my eyes open for a later model 3/4- or 1-ton utility body 4WD truck. A "work truck" won't be quite as comfortable as a plush SUV or truck, but it's not quite like rolling back the clock.

[76 Airstream]

My wife and I have MVS (multi-vehicle syndrome) that includes several vintage/classics. After our '76 became un-road worthy, we got an '06 SO. Naturally we wanted a classic TV. Long story short, I got this '55 Chevy Grumman (3/4 ton) to put a duramax/allison combo in. The SO has gvw of #9100, so need the power and torque. I would do all the upgrades to make it comfortable and safe.
Even if I did all of that, I decided not to go ahead with the project because the wheelbase, at 125", is too short for my comfort level (and I don't want to cut up the Grumman).
We can and should be cautious at all times, but there's always "the other guy" and the unexpected. It is in those times that we need to be ready and our TV's can rise to the occasion.
I would have no trouble using it for the "76, but with the weight of the '06....not gunna do it.
To each his own...but always, safety first.

[PeeWee]

Alternative towing methods.

Pee Wee

[Camp Kilgore]

Sadly after 24 years I gave up on my '59 GMC 1 ton panel when I first broke my back. I was considering a same year vintage medium-duty GM 302 six, a stroked 270, and a 4 bolt small block 383, a stroked 350. As opposed to Chevys, GMCs had much stronger OEM engines, such as the big block 270 six (vs. small block 235 six) and a 4-speed auto w/ hot Pontiac V-8 335? (vs. 283) as was in my brother's 3/4 ton GMC pickup. '59 GMC truck was a true classic year. The '59 1 ton drum brakes were at best marginal towing even a CJ-5 in the Rockies.

One can rebuild a stroked engine gaining critical torque with little risk of additional fuel consumption. Hot rodding, mild to flaming, is easy once beyond the current 25 year emissions trap.

I have a '72 Suburban and '76 Ford pickup, both 3/4 ton, in overhaul stages, w/ which to tow 10,000# over 10,000 feet passes. The F-250 keeps its 390 .30 over and the Sub either gets a 383 or a 427 aftermarket small block, a modern overdrive 5 speed tranny plus a .72 overdrive to split gears, a 1 ton 14 bolt 4.1 or 4.56 rear with disks all around.

I would not recommend a half ton vintage truck to pull and stop over 5,000#, only in flat lands, 2,500#in high mountains.

I am also considering a tinkered hearse or short limo car, to store what won't fit into Airstreams. Gotta have my babe magnet cast iron pots & pans, not to mention the dutch ovens, and generator, and extra propane tanks, and water, and beer, and...

There was nothing like the American big block 3 ton luxury cars of 1.5+ generations ago. If only the fit and finish had not been so poor. My dad's huge '76 Fleetwood 500 cid always had unfixable electrical gremlins, rust and ill fitting, broken plastic bits, giving up on it at 43,000 miles... best car at 90 mph I've ever driven...wish I had its 500 cid and TH400 now.

[hampstead38]

I think the challenge of vintage is less power, and more suspension. There are plenty of vintage rigs that benefit from a "tweaked" V8 without all of the horsepower killing smog equipment. Now, I know some guys will completely swap out the running gear to get benefits like IFS. On the other hand, you can get to a point where you have an vintage body on essentially a new vehicle... (which may be what we end up with when were' done with our Overlander). The new trucks are complex, expensive and depend on chips and electronics beyond the expertise of many shade tree mechanics (like me). On the other hand, they are reasonably powerful, parts are available and they ride well. My wife believes that heated leather seats are one of the great inventions of the 20th century.

['55 Airlight]

Here's the answer to the perennially pesky problem of how to have a vintage tow vehicle with all the engineering, safety, performance, and comfort of a modern vehicle. Featuring satiny stainless steel, buttery soft leather, this
beautifully designed classic truck is engineered to the highest modern standards. You may select an automatic or manual transmission. And from among these Engine recommendations:
350 cu in Chevy small block V8
(290 to 425 horsepower)
5.7-liter GM LS1 V8, 350 horsepower
6.2-liter GM LS3 V8, 430 horsepower
7.0-liter GM LS7 V8, 505 horsepower

Try this on for size: <http://www.southernmotorcompany.com/>



Michael

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by '55 Airlight

Here's the answer to the perennially pesky problem of how to have a vintage tow vehicle with all the engineering, safety, performance, and comfort of a modern vehicle. Featuring satiny stainless steel, buttery soft leather, this
beautifully designed classic truck is engineered to the highest modern standards. You may select an automatic or manual transmission. And from among these Engine recommendations:
350 cu in Chevy small block V8
(290 to 425 horsepower)
5.7-liter GM LS1 V8, 350 horsepower
6.2-liter GM LS3 V8, 430 horsepower
7.0-liter GM LS7 V8, 505 horsepower

Try this on for size: Home - Southern Motor Company




Michael

Very nice, but $68,000 plus engine and transmission is pretty steep for a two seat tow vehicle. (That is a, now, three year old price, too!)

['55 Airlight]

Minnie's Mate, Tom, wrote: << pretty steep >>

Yeah, Tom, that's not news. Like I said: it's pricey. But, with respect, I reckon to some folks, your habits are awful spendy. For my budget, it's completely unreasonable to spend $85K on a gourmet ride, be it a big German sedan or a custom retro pickup truck. But there's plenty of folks driving 'round in such sedans wishing they could throw down for a $200K Turbo Bentley. Or an even pricier vintage Ferrari.

Michael

[hampstead38]

I gave my '52 Chevy five-window with 216 to my nephew. It would pull the Overlander, but no faster than 50 mph.

I used the '52 as a daily driver for years. It wasn't bad and I enjoyed all of the waves and honks. If I had $68k in loose change in my sofa, I can think of some ways to spend it, but it wouldn't be on what is essentially a "kit car."

As for safety, there are all kinds of improvements you can make on a vintage vehicle. I'm swapping my old single pot master for a dual pot when the snow thaws. Drum brakes work fine, if you go easy on them. Swapping to discs or IFS is just a matter of writing a check... if you own a Ford or Chevy.

Honestly, a 50s or 60s era truck is never going to ride like a modern luxury car... or truck. I took the old Dodge out before the weather broke bad. I had forgotten how loud and rattling a vehicle could be.

['55 Airlight]

Back in 1972, I owned a 1960 canned ham 16' trailer. And a 1960 Chevy Carry-all with a 265 V-8, three speed tranny, Hurst shifter, headers. She was a goer. I bought her for $650 with all the seats and no broken glass. I put white spoke wheels on 'er (that was the style) and some fat tires.

Back then, it was an old truck with an old trailer. We didn't know it was vintage, or mid-century modern. My wife still kids me when I recall the perfect condition of that truck and that canned ham. "Hell," she says. "They were only 12 years old back then."

Michael

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by DeamArt

We now have the Airstream Flying Cloud which we tow with the 58 Caddy.
An early 50s Chevrolet with a 216 or 235 Cu. in. six cylinder would not work well but a big V8 Buick or Cadillac would be adequate. There is a lot to be said for modern running gear however.
Dick and Judy
"Deam Art"

How true it is Dick. As a kid I traveled with a pals family. With 4 of us in the 6cyl., 1965 chevy sedan the car struggled towing a 15' lightweight SOB. This small hills in upstate New York just south of Buffalo were a challenge.

Modern running gear works great. Today we tow the 23' with a 213ci V6 and have no trouble getting out on a grade and passing slower moving vehicles. I still have a soft spot for the vintage cars. This Imperial on Kijiji a while ago caught my eye. What a sweet Airstream hauler...

[bill & phyl]

We tow a 23ft safari with a 1957 ford monarch that sports a 460ci engine coupled to an overdrive automatic with a 3.25:1 diff. Four wheel pwr disc brakes and rack and pinnion steering. Our next trip is this summer and it starts at St Johns Nfl. and ends in Victoria BC. In effect we cross the county twice. At any rate if you want to see some neat rides pulling trailers go to coasters 2010 and check out the cars making that trip. A old car or truck pulling an airstream is noticed and folks are interested in the car or the trailer or both. The coolest comment made about our rig and I quote: You look like you arrived 40 years late. There are problems pulling with an old car, is it worth it ,you bet. Old cars and trailers are a labour of love. Good luck in your quest......bill & phyl

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

This Imperial on Kijiji a while ago caught my eye. What a sweet Airstream hauler...

Talk about land yachts. Back in the day, a new '67 Imperial convertible cost the same as a new Rolls Royce...and the Rolls may not have even had power windows unless it was a Silver Shadow.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Talk about land yachts. Back in the day, a new '67 Imperial convertible cost the same as a new Rolls Royce...and the Rolls may not have even had power windows unless it was a Silver Shadow.

I think the RR was a good bit more expensive, only twice what the Imp cost (versus today).

A friend had a loaded '67 Crown Coupe: with driver/full fuel it scaled 5,250-lbs. Less than most half-tons of today. Longer & wider than a Chev Suburban with a wheelbase almost as long. The old cars weren't always as heavy as they were accused of being, or as remembered. 16-mpg hwy, with radial tires, gas shocks and electronic ignition. At 70 mph. (Can't beat a Mopar). Plus, as the driver sat a good 5' or more to the rear of the front wheels (and on a similar plane), todays cars or SUV's aren't even close to the ride quality. With the standard 2.94 rear gears it also didn't shift into High until 92-mph at WOT. And, unlike the big GM's and Ford, kept on accelerating past 120-mph. And had the chassis they did not. (You can tell I really liked that car). He reported a thumbs up from a surprised Viper driver at that speed . . the modern Mopar didn't pull away substantially until then.

A true 75-90 mph all day on the right roads.

The downfall was/is the Saginaw steering box: no variable-ratio unlike the GM's that brought it in at that time; and, with trailing link steering (versus leading-type on other brands), the combination of slow reaction and fingertip-level feedback is not so great for those unused to it. The cars only downfall (outside of an ancient wiring harness for todays use) is the lack or quality of body parts.

All the vintage vehicles have "fatal" flaws. Short trips for weekend adventures, maybe. Longer trips I'd leave to others (unless the lottery tilts my way)

[hampstead38]

"Fatal" might be a little strong, Rednax. The world moves faster than it did in the 50s and 60s. If a person wants to roll down the freeway towing a trailer at 65 mph without a care in the world vintage is not the way to go. Modern 3/4 tons trucks are 10 times better than vintage trucks... and 100 times more complex. Like "Bill and Phyl" have added, you can added IFS, four-wheel disc brakes, power steering, etc. If, however, a guy is willing to go more slowly....