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Old 07-05-2014, 10:33 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post

A CTD is a 385k mile design (GM & FORD are sub-225k miles) so where the 1/2T-diesel is any advantage over a gasser motor (sub-200k miles) is a question worth asking and contemplating.
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Um, I know for a fact that the Dmax is durability tested to 500k miles, and I suspect Ford is comparable. Please show me your proof of 250k design for each, please.
dznf0g,
Are you referring to the post by slowmover above?
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:36 AM   #114
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Yes, sorry, sometimes quote doesn't work on my phone.
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:12 AM   #115
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Hi from AZ. . . as my old man told me a looong time ago, don't buy the 1st year of anything ! ! Let them get the initial bugs worked out. Italian diesel, German transmission & American truck indeed ! AND $55k for a new 1/2 ton truck just seems out of the question. Nice looking package but. . .regards, Craig
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:42 PM   #116
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Hi from AZ. . . as my old man told me a looong time ago, don't buy the 1st year of anything ! ! Let them get the initial bugs worked out. Italian diesel, German transmission & American truck indeed ! AND $55k for a new 1/2 ton truck just seems out of the question. Nice looking package but. . .regards, Craig

I paid far less for mine.

Hint #1: Don't get the Laramie trim. It will cost you two hundred pounds in payload.
Hint #2: Be mentally prepared to just walk. Walk and come back the next day.
Hint #3: Negotiate based on how the truck doesn't meet your needs.
Hint #4: Navigation is a software upgrade and cost to dealer and Chrysler is low.

In the end, I got about $13K off MSRP for the 4x4 Bighorn Crew Cab package.


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Old 07-05-2014, 11:58 PM   #117
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Hi again from AZ. . .out here I hear they're in short supply & getting full price. I'd be interested to hear how it does towing your 28 footer, we're towing FC28 with Ecoboost F150. . . thanks, Craig
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:25 AM   #118
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Not $55k, more like $44k

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Hi again from AZ. . .out here I hear they're in short supply & getting full price. . . thanks, Craig
Who said that? The dealer?

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Hi from AZ. . . as my old man told me a looong time ago, don't buy the 1st year of anything ! ! Let them get the initial bugs worked out. Italian diesel, German transmission & American truck indeed ! AND $55k for a new 1/2 ton truck just seems out of the question. Nice looking package but. . .regards, Craig
I ordered a new '14 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel at the beginning of June. It was built a week or so ago and should be delivered this month. It is true that they are selling really well and the rebates and discounts are much less than the gas 1500s, however, I negotiated a sale price that was 14% off MSRP. Probably not the best deal in the world, but the truck is exactly what I want. It is an SLT Lone Star edition, Crew Cab 4x4, 6'4" bed, black, Katzkin leather, sunroof, tow mirrors, brake control, rear camera, luxury group, 3.92 anti slip diff.
I'm pretty excited for it to get here
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File Type: pdf My RAM build sheet.pdf (8.7 KB, 45 views)
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:44 AM   #119
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Um, I know for a fact that the Dmax is durability tested to 500k miles, and I suspect Ford is comparable. Please show me your proof of 250k design for each, please.
You can go to Fleet Owner magazine, for one. CUMMINS itself published comparative MTBO numbers for years as a sales pitch.

GM and FORD make light duty diesels for light duty trucks. Dodge sourced a medium duty engine and has had -- with the manual transmissions and latest Aisin-Warner transmission -- medium duty drivetrains overall.

Durability testing is not the same as projected lifespan. Fully one-half of FORD and GM diesel engines are expected to need re-building by or before 225k miles. IOW, buying a used one at 100k means maybe another 100k out of a 300k mile vehicle.

Fleets turn over vehicles rapidly enough . . it is the individual owner, private or commercial, who needs pay more attention.

Sure, I see FORD and occasionally GM with some loads in the oilfield. Usually fleet, not hotshot. And more of them gassers. Hotshot are hurrying in every sense of the word. GCW above 30k has been SOP for years. Somewhere between 300-350k miles it was time for another truck as well-site lease roads are no picnic (the double strength frame on the Peterbilt I drive today is proof of the need as the extra weight over a road-only tractor is substantial and cuts revenue); that 1T pickup has to be dependable. You have to have confidence to push it, not baby it.

I lately drive 600-700 miles daily across Texas. Louisiana and Oklahoma taking loads from Gulf Coast mills to oil patch distribution centers. If I saw more than Dodge, I'd say so. The advances in fracking in just the past couple of years has opened opportunities in older areas, not just new plays. Oklahoma saw 4,600 wells completed last year, alone, but one reads primarily about the Bakken Shale in North Dakota and the Eagle Ford in South Texas. Hell, the Permian Basin is so busy at present that some of our customers cannot schedule enough rail cars for delivery thus we are carrying truckloads to them 500 miles and more. That's damned expensive (5 or 6-truckloads = 1-railcar). Sometimes I even have tankers waiting for me to offload into them as I arrive. Etc.

Don't worry, there are plenty of FORD fanbois down here as well . . probably see more of that brand than any other in 1T. Just not under a hot and heavy load with a drilling rig about to stand by at $25,000 per hour if you don't get there, oh, an hour ago. Might be a specialized tool. And on return you load the trailer with everything from drill motors to all sorts of odds and ends to the maximum. And have to hurry them hundreds of miles to be rebuilt as they are already scheduled elsewhere.

Hotshot pays well for the smart operator. And they do not take chances on equipment. Their customers will just call someone else in the future.

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Old 07-06-2014, 12:42 PM   #120
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Hi Top. . . no, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, info from 2 ASers I know in AZ. Sounds like a great package you're getting, hope it works out for you. I love my Ecoboost F150. It stickered at $44k, & cost me $35.8k, so really similar deal. Good luck & let us know how you love it, Regards, Craig
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:57 PM   #121
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Slowmover, I would still like to see a link to those specific numbers. I too see the oilfields. I called on the North Slope back in the 90s and call on the Baaken now. Oilfield service is very unique in two ways. There is a tremendous amount of idle time and PTO time on many of the trucks, so mileage alone is not a good indicator of lifespan. (BTW, I'm not downplaying Cummins either....I think your numbers are low for them as well. Secondly, in the Baaken most of my customers are infrastructure and service providers to the oilfield. They, by their own admission, don't care about service or preventive maintenance as they are charging their rig and driver out at a rate of $3500 - $5000 a day! It is cheaper for them to drive the truck into the ground and replace it than take the downtime for routine maintenance and repairs.

It is RARE that I see a Duramax down for base engine issues below 500,000 miles. And yes durability testing is the ability to perform a simulated average usage over a 500,000 mile lifespan, by definition at GM. Some of it is done on dynos, and some in truck at several proving grounds, and some engines see a combo of both, as well as cross country tours to particularly tough areas.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:02 PM   #122
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BTW, the 6.6 duramax was a Med duty engine in the 4500 - 6500 series GMs and still is for some Isuzu models globally.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:14 PM   #123
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Hi Top. . . no, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, info from 2 ASers I know in AZ. Sounds like a great package you're getting, hope it works out for you. I love my Ecoboost F150. It stickered at $44k, & cost me $35.8k, so really similar deal. Good luck & let us know how you love it, Regards, Craig
Craig,
I wasn't implying that you'd just fallen off the turnip truck at all.
I have heard that from a few salesmen around here. They just repeat what they are told to say at the morning sales meeting (if they remember). They change their tune when you sit down with them and tell them what you want and what you'd pay. It did take me walking away from the dealership a few times and showing them offers from other dealers to get the OK deal I got. Patience is critical.

Thanks, I'll let y'all know for sure how it works out (or not).
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:40 PM   #124
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dznf0g I speak only about two things in the above: MTBO, or, B50 life, and perceptions by independent owners (some through traumatic experience). Idle time is not relevant to hotshot for the most part. I know of no one with under 30-mph averages. Most are above 40. I think we'd agree that these are motivated owners when it comes to basic service. For an RV'er it is moot when buying new. That group won't keep them 10-years or 300k anyway. But there are those of us as fulltimers who will, and who won't/can't buy new.

You can look though back issues of FLEET OWNER if you want. And try the CUMMINS website as well. For running around with a service truck or deliveries most anything will do. But its still a DODGE to be backed up under the heavy loads.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:50 PM   #125
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Slowmover:

You appear to be quoting B10 and B50 lives, and directly contrasting them. A B10 life of 225,000 miles can not be said to be worse than a B50 life of 350,000 miles, they are different statistical measures.

MTBF is a valid and oft used concept. Failure is an defined event. MTB Overhauls depends on the decision of when to overhaul, and the population under discussion.

Life to overhaul without qualifying load factors and drive cycles is meaningless. We used litres of fuel burned to quantify overhaul periods in my work, and found good relationships. Work it harder, it wears out sooner, for the same design and identical product.

If a 5.9 or 6.7ISB is a medium duty engine, then it is lighter duty than a 9 litre Cummins with 50% more displacement and a similar rating. Specific output is way up. Similarly, a 200 hp 5.9 is more of a medium duty engine than a recent higher output version.

By many definitions, a medium duty engine (IMO) has liners.

I think the brand loyalty is a little overdone (fanbois?)

Jeff
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:55 PM   #126
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Can y'all relate this argument between the Dmax and Cummins to the RAM 1500 with the VM Motori L630DOHC engine?
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