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Old 05-27-2014, 07:51 AM   #99
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I agree that oil analysis is the thing to do, Perry.
There is a lot of good information on Engine Oils here. Way more than I'll ever be able to fully comprehend, but still lots of information.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:56 AM   #100
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Yeah I am a member at bobistheoilguy.com . Those guys know their stuff. The last time I had an oil analysis done or needed to was when I had an old Ford Diesel. It was a pain but it had seen better days. The only diesel I have now is my little Kubota and I have never had to do anything to the engine other than change the oil in 10 yrs. Of course it does not have any of the new EPA BS on it like the trucks do, soot catches, DEF tanks Etc.

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Old 05-27-2014, 04:11 PM   #101
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As a reference point, we drove through the mountains in 102 heat Monday on I-10 enroute to Long Beach, CA.

The Cummins diesel engine water temperature was about 202 - 204. Transmission temperature was 168 to 170 and the rear differential was about 10 degrees cooler. The turbo charger EGT was under 900 degrees most of the time.

The rig scaled 18,860 pounds that morning. We were running in 6th gear at 65 mph.
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:50 PM   #102
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As a reference point, we drove through the mountains in 102 heat Monday on I-10 enroute to Long Beach, CA.

The Cummins diesel engine water temperature was about 202 - 204. Transmission temperature was 168 to 170 and the rear differential was about 10 degrees cooler. The turbo charger EGT was under 900 degrees most of the time.

The rig scaled 18,860 pounds that morning. We were running in 6th gear at 65 mph.
Sounds good.

I'm going to make a prediction here: when the "new" Cummins engine finally appears in the Tundra and possibly the Titan, I will predict the users will see the engines running water temps of high 190's to 205, and oil temps of 215 to 225.
I'll come back here and eat crow if I am wrong on that.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:25 PM   #103
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Great reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
As a reference point, we drove through the mountains in 102 heat Monday on I-10 enroute to Long Beach, CA.

The Cummins diesel engine water temperature was about 202 - 204. Transmission temperature was 168 to 170 and the rear differential was about 10 degrees cooler. The turbo charger EGT was under 900 degrees most of the time.

The rig scaled 18,860 pounds that morning. We were running in 6th gear at 65 mph.
Thanks! That is a great reference for someone with a RAM 2500/6.7l Cummins towing a heavy Classic, loaded down with batteries, generators and all the other things you carry that some don't. Even with all that that, it is still only about 60% of your RAM 2500's towing capacity. I wonder how different your numbers would be if you were pulling a 16,000lb 5er. Maybe not much different. I think that engine is capable of towing up to 30,000lbs in some configurations, no?
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:37 PM   #104
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Thanks! That is a great reference for someone with a RAM 2500/6.7l Cummins towing a heavy Classic, loaded down with batteries, generators and all the other things you carry that some don't. Even with all that that, it is still only about 60% of your RAM 2500's towing capacity. I wonder how different your numbers would be if you were pulling a 16,000lb 5er. Maybe not much different. I think that engine is capable of towing up to 30,000lbs in some configurations, no?
Lance,
While it's not a Cummins, I routinely pull 13K to 15K worth of equipment trailer or horse trailer with a powerstroke, and rarely see water temps over 210F.
Ford specs normal service to be 190-200. Severe service (towing) 200-215. Over 215 it alarms, and at 221 it de-rates power.
Usually somewhere around 210, the fan is kicked into "roaring" mode, although there are other things that also tell the fan to go full on ( trans temp and I believe IAT ), so it can vary as to when you hear the fan. When the fan kicks into it's serious mode, it generally pulls the temps back down pretty quickly.
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:33 AM   #105
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I wonder why some of you feel the need to compare a 1500 with a 2500. They are apples and pumpkins. The RAM 1500 diesel should be compared with other same category trucks like the Ford F-150, Silverado 1500, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan etal. There is no question that a RAM 2500 with 6.7l Cummins will do more than the RAM 1500 with a 3.0l diesel. But, not everyone wants or needs a truck with the capabilities of the RAM 2500. Not to mention they cost more to purchase, cost more to maintain, insurance is higher and they consume more fuel.
When the Titan and Tundra diesels comes out in a few years with the V8 Cummins, there will be more apples to compare apples.
[1] Fuel consumption, solo & towing, [2] when married to engine design (MTBO, mean time between overhaul) is the short answer.

A CTD is a 385k mile design (GM & FORD are sub-225k miles) so where the 1/2T-diesel is any advantage over a gasser motor (sub-200k miles) is a question worth asking and contemplating.

As I've posted previously, in a close comparison with a man who has my same truck but with the HEMI engine, when diesel is no more than 50-cents/gal higher than gasoline, the fuel cost is a wash for the purchase price difference.

What then matters is engine health sufficient to continue working. A worn motor can get you around town for years . . but it is becoming it's own hazard if asked to do real work. A well-cared for gasser might still be okay at 200k, but I'd be pricing re-man motors. The Cummins in my truck at 197k is a ways past the half-way point in both miles and engine hours. Original clutch, one brake re-line and second set of tires (etc). So let's not be too quick about higher operational or ownership costs . . which is why I recommend a close comparison with a 2500.

Where this new motor will be at 150-200k miles is, IMO, a very big deal if I am buying a diesel for it's inherent virtues. Otherwise, why get one? (asked rhetorically).

I specified a 2WD, manual transmission CTD for longest life at lowest cost with highest reliability. No other brand pickup could meet what DODGE already produced. That the truck also features IFS plus rack & pinion steering makes an already ideal vehicle that much better for towing, as handling winds in a combined vehicle is at least as important (I say more important) than just engine power or cargo capacity. And I bought this truck as it was for the business I was in at that time (real estate). The 1/2-T it replaced was completely outclassed in every category past initial price.

EDMUNDS "True Cost to Own" is where I'd begin . . come up with an understanding of cents-per-mile of owner/operator costs. As with recommending this TT type to others -- where nights aboard over years of ownership is the metric -- so too with a tool as expensive as a TV where miles and years can be greater than the usual "trade at five or seven" with more than 1/2 of vehicle life remaining.

The "magic" is not in the truck (the spec) but in the owner. The purchase demanded of me a new way of driving that was not just monkey skills (never stop, never idle when en route) , but in not turning the key without a route plan (MAPQUEST "Best Order Routing"). A 21-mpg average is the result. Tire and brakes that go over 100k is another. Further exertions taught me that I can underwrite as much as 5k miles of "free" vacation travel by upping my (then) normal daily driving habits to something better. Etc. A turbodiesel motor can be operated at a lower-than-EPA fuel consumption average more easily than a gasser in my experience.

Diesel power is not a panacea in and of itself. The numbers have to be shown to work.

And, BITOG has, like a lot of enthusiast sites over time (I was an original member) lost focus and become dependent on "board consensus". Analysis is good, but it also is no panacea. I recommend the services of certified tribologist Terry Dyson over lab rats however good.

The only real drawback to a 3/4T is in wheelbase length. But for a sub-7k A/S of reasonable length, a car or minivan is a better choice than any truck for a vacationer. So place this TD 1/2T in full context as well, not just among the handicapped TV's.

.
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:12 AM   #106
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My one ton cummins has a six and a half foot bed and four doors, same size as most halfton trucks. So where is the disadvantage of a three quarter ton on wheel base? I also have srw, it is an 06. Sorry to hijack the thread. I think this new diesel will prove to be great. Jim
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:35 AM   #107
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Mine's 160". Some are 172" and greater. My 2001 Dodge was 134" The luxury cars of the 1960's and '70's were 127" to 130" while the full size were 124" or somewhat less. A Honda Odyssey is on par with the 80's/'90's Chev Caprice at around 118".

A new DODGE is likely 140". The combo of wb and weight is what is complained about in moving to higher ratings.

The CHP in the early 1960's determinned that a WB of 122" was ideal as to capacity and handling. About 4k empty. Still stands up today in accident statistics where the "safety" curve flattens out above these numbers. Or, why a Mercedes underpinned Charger/300 is so good as police, fleet or tow vehicle. A police Tahoe is severely modified and rated far lower than a Charger. An excellent starting point, IOW.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:50 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
[1] Fuel consumption, solo & towing, [2] when married to engine design (MTBO, mean time between overhaul) is the short answer.

A CTD is a 385k mile design (GM & FORD are sub-225k miles) so where the 1/2T-diesel is any advantage over a gasser motor (sub-200k miles) is a question worth asking and contemplating.

As I've posted previously, in a close comparison with a man who has my same truck but with the HEMI engine, when diesel is no more than 50-cents/gal higher than gasoline, the fuel cost is a wash for the purchase price difference.

What then matters is engine health sufficient to continue working. A worn motor can get you around town for years . . but it is becoming it's own hazard if asked to do real work. A well-cared for gasser might still be okay at 200k, but I'd be pricing re-man motors. The Cummins in my truck at 197k is a ways past the half-way point in both miles and engine hours. Original clutch, one brake re-line and second set of tires (etc). So let's not be too quick about higher operational or ownership costs . . which is why I recommend a close comparison with a 2500.

Where this new motor will be at 150-200k miles is, IMO, a very big deal if I am buying a diesel for it's inherent virtues. Otherwise, why get one? (asked rhetorically).

I specified a 2WD, manual transmission CTD for longest life at lowest cost with highest reliability. No other brand pickup could meet what DODGE already produced. That the truck also features IFS plus rack & pinion steering makes an already ideal vehicle that much better for towing, as handling winds in a combined vehicle is at least as important (I say more important) than just engine power or cargo capacity. And I bought this truck as it was for the business I was in at that time (real estate). The 1/2-T it replaced was completely outclassed in every category past initial price.

EDMUNDS "True Cost to Own" is where I'd begin . . come up with an understanding of cents-per-mile of owner/operator costs. As with recommending this TT type to others -- where nights aboard over years of ownership is the metric -- so too with a tool as expensive as a TV where miles and years can be greater than the usual "trade at five or seven" with more than 1/2 of vehicle life remaining.

The "magic" is not in the truck (the spec) but in the owner. The purchase demanded of me a new way of driving that was not just monkey skills (never stop, never idle when en route) , but in not turning the key without a route plan (MAPQUEST "Best Order Routing"). A 21-mpg average is the result. Tire and brakes that go over 100k is another. Further exertions taught me that I can underwrite as much as 5k miles of "free" vacation travel by upping my (then) normal daily driving habits to something better. Etc. A turbodiesel motor can be operated at a lower-than-EPA fuel consumption average more easily than a gasser in my experience.

Diesel power is not a panacea in and of itself. The numbers have to be shown to work.

And, BITOG has, like a lot of enthusiast sites over time (I was an original member) lost focus and become dependent on "board consensus". Analysis is good, but it also is no panacea. I recommend the services of certified tribologist Terry Dyson over lab rats however good.

The only real drawback to a 3/4T is in wheelbase length. But for a sub-7k A/S of reasonable length, a car or minivan is a better choice than any truck for a vacationer. So place this TD 1/2T in full context as well, not just among the handicapped TV's.

.
Thanks for your thoughtful analysis, Slowmover. Always a pleasure to digest your thoughts.

Maybe for me, having lived half of the last 25 years in Europe, the thought of an Italian diesel engine with a German transmission in an American pickup is a marriage like no other.

As for the MTBO of the VM L630 DOHC, only time will tell. When I read what Gale Banks had to say about the engine and why he selected it for the special operations vehicle, my confidence in it grew substantially. VM Motori has been around a long time. It has many engines in service worldwide. I have not been able to find any shred of evidence to suspect anything "problematic" with any of their engines.

I have done my analysis on the RAM 2500/Cummins vs the RAM 1500 3.0L. It is possible to get a great deal on a 2500. $10,000 (18%) off MSRP on a 2500 is pretty common. The 1500 Ecodiesel is in short supply and high demand, so about $7,000 (14%) off MSRP. Similarly equipped, the 2500 can be had for just a few thousand more than the 1500 Ecodiesel if you buy off the lot. There lies my problem. Finding a truck exactly the way I want it. I will have to order a 1500 to get everything I want/need. Not a big problem. I'm patient. I haven't purchased a new vehicle in 12 years, so I want it to be EXACTLY configured.

In the next five to eight years, I plan to put a lot of highway miles on our next truck. About 5000 more towing miles per year. By my calculations based on 18,000 miles per year, the 2500 costs $1,300 per year more to purchase, insure, operate and maintain. Not a huge difference, but when the 1500 will comfortably do everything I need it to do, I can't really find any justification to buy a 2500 other than to have a really nice big A$$ truck.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:49 AM   #109
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" . . Similarly equipped, the 2500 can be had for just a few thousand more than the 1500 Ecodiesel if you buy off the lot. There lies my problem . . . By my calculations based on 18,000 miles per year, the 2500 costs $1,300 per year more to purchase, insure, operate and maintain . . . Not a huge difference, but when the 1500 will comfortably do everything I need it to do, I can't really find any justification to buy a 2500 other than to have a really nice big A$$ truck.

$25/week for a drivetrain that won't break a sweat during the day-to-day as you see it at present.

I am not advocating for the larger truck, per se, as what an A/S "needs" is not what I/m thinking of, but of a family asset that can do a far larger range of work: move the business, the home, etc. Things can change would be the point to context, again. A 1/2T with an open-platform conventionally-hitched trailer can carry a good load, but it is no match for a GN dump trailer. The former is a homeowners pal, the latter is a genuine moneymaker. Keep it in mind. The amount of work either pickup can do is a much wider margin than the price differential. Finding a crew of strong backs isn't ever the problem . . . .

http://www.pjtrailers.com/brochures/DS_1000.jpg

And my compliments in return. Your posts are among the first I check in reference to tools, supplies, methods. Best of luck.

.
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:07 AM   #110
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Bought a 4x4 crew cab Big Horn Ram 1500 with the V6 diesel. Haven't towed with it yet, but expect to next week with a 2014 International 28'. Pretty thrilled with the 33mpg I'm getting on the highway, with a mixed mpg of 26-28mpg. Best vehicle I've ever driven.


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Old 07-05-2014, 10:01 AM   #111
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Bought a 4x4 crew cab Big Horn Ram 1500 with the V6 diesel. Haven't towed with it yet, but expect to next week with a 2014 International 28'. Pretty thrilled with the 33mpg I'm getting on the highway, with a mixed mpg of 26-28mpg. Best vehicle I've ever driven.


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This is the post I have been waiting for! Can't wait to hear about your actual towing experience.

And now back to the why my Cummings is better.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:16 AM   #112
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Um, I know for a fact that the Dmax is durability tested to 500k miles, and I suspect Ford is comparable. Please show me your proof of 250k design for each, please.
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