V-6 Turbo diesel for '14 Ram PU

[perryg114]

Is it made by Cummings or Fiat?

Perry

[handn]

Not for me a 50k Fiat v6 diesel that overheats. Sounds like a class action suit in the making.
There is no price differential between the 2500 with tried and try Cummins power. If you want a 1500 get one with a Hemi for 15 k less.

[Lance M]

Originally Posted by handn

Not for me a 50k Fiat v6 diesel that overheats. Sounds like a class action suit in the making.
There is no price differential between the 2500 with tried and try Cummins power. If you want a 1500 get one with a Hemi for 15 k less.

Operating at a temperature that is higher than what we consider normal does not equal overheating.
The VM Motori built L630DOHC is a $2,800 option in most configurations. I think it is a $4,000 option when the 3.6l gas is standard. I'm curious how you arrive at $15,000.
This VM Motori engine is no more a Fiat than a Ferrari or a Maserati is a Fiat. It was originally developed for GM to be installed in EU Cadillacs. I know Fiat has a bad reputation in the US, but I would say that Fiat is a much different company than it was in the late seventies.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by handn

Not for me a 50k Fiat v6 diesel that overheats. Sounds like a class action suit in the making.
There is no price differential between the 2500 with tried and try Cummins power. If you want a 1500 get one with a Hemi for 15 k less.

Whether or not you're interested in the VM Motori V6, let's be accurate here. RAM's configurator is online for you to use if you want to make honest comparisons.

RAM 2500 Laramie crew-cab with standard box, Cummins, bucket seats, RAMbox cargo management: MSRP $52,465.

RAM 1500 Laramie crew-cab with standard box, EcoDiesel, bucket seats, RAMbox cargo mgmt, trailer pkg: MSRP $45,500.

As Lance (Top) pointed out, the price delta between the same RAM 1500 configurations with HEMI or EcoDiesel is not $15,000, it's $2,850.

[perryg114]

I would not trust anything European made that is not made in Germany and even some of that is not made well. This rules out England, Italy, France, Spain etc. If it makes you feel trendy then go for it. The statistics speak for themselves as far as reliability ratings from these countries.

Perry

[Lance M]

Perry,
Please show some statistics and let them speak!

[switz]

The reliability proof of the Fiat V6 will come to the surface after a year or so of use in SouthWest summer heat, in the mountains and general use. I think the temperatures are high, as compared to our 6.7L Cummins and automatic transmission. We are going down the road at 18,000+ pounds and our max speed is 65 (alternating between 5th and 6th gears depending on the grade) or lower depending on the local speed limits at the time.

I have real time digital temperature sensors and display on my Cummins engine oil and turbocharger EGT, transmission ands both differentials. Our temperatures are significantly lower.

We still have additional cargo capacity of over 750 pounds in both the truck and the trailer which would not be the case with a ½ ton rated vehicle.

I hope it does work for the lower weight Airstreams.

[handn]

I did exaggerate the price differential between the diesel and gas versions of the 1500. I compared the gas stripper to the gussied up diesel.
I stand by my overheating comment. Anytime the temp moves out of normal and goes over 200 degrees towing a trailer within the tow range of the vehicle there is a problem. Your tow vehicle should be able to tow your rig up an 8% grade at 100 degree temperatures without the coolant temps increasing more than a few degrees over the thermostat controlled normal.
There is zero margin for error if there is a malfunction such as a broken belt, the engine will boil over in a heartbeat. If you running at 180 or so, you have time to pull over and save the engine.
The transmission cooler is in the radiator. The transmission fluid runs hotter than the coolant temps. There is a direct correlation between short transmission life and hot temps.

[Bob4x4]

Originally Posted by handn

I did exaggerate the price differential between the diesel and gas versions of the 1500. I compared the gas stripper to the gussied up diesel.
I stand by my overheating comment. Anytime the temp moves out of normal and goes over 200 degrees towing a trailer within the tow range of the vehicle there is a problem. Your tow vehicle should be able to tow your rig up an 8% grade at 100 degree temperatures without the coolant temps increasing more than a few degrees over the thermostat controlled normal.
There is zero margin for error if there is a malfunction such as a broken belt, the engine will boil over in a heartbeat. If you running at 180 or so, you have time to pull over and save the engine.
The transmission cooler is in the radiator. The transmission fluid runs hotter than the coolant temps. There is a direct correlation between short transmission life and hot temps.

You know for a fact the trans cooler is in the radiator or are you assuming ?

[slowmover]

FWIW, the 15L Cummins ISX in my work Peterbilt tractor runs oil temps at 220-230F constantly. Coolant is at 185-195F under a load, to above 205F pulling a grade under load (dropping two gears under full throttle) when the fan clutch cuts in (or I choose to run it manually prior to ascent). This is not a highway truck, per se, but spec'd to run the unpaved lease roads in the oilfield. We lately are making runs from the Gulf Coast all over to the TX/OK drilling service/supply centers.

The mpg reported above is the same as my '04 Cummins with GCW of 17k at 59-mph/1,725-rpm and slightly lower than my solo average (but 1k+ over original delivery weight).

I'd spec the 2500 CTD with air-ride and automatic to make the best comparison.

.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, this information dates back the late 60's and early 70's from General Motors and most of it is still the same with all automotive engines today.

Water boils at 212 Degrees.

The boiling point increases 3 degrees per pound of pressure.

Most radiator caps were 15 lbs.

This gives you 45 more degrees before boiling.

Now we are at 257 degrees.

Now add 30 more degrees with a proper 50/50 mixture of coolant.

Now we hit a max of 287 degrees before boil over.

General Motors set their idiot light at 262 degrees.

Engine damage starts only when the water/coolant boils out of the radiator and into the street.

Some newer vehicles [Corvettes] have up to 25 lb pressure caps.

Worrying about a measly 200 to 220 degrees is like panicking because one rivet popped on your trailer.

[Lance M]

I wonder why some of you feel the need to compare a 1500 with a 2500. They are apples and pumpkins. The RAM 1500 diesel should be compared with other same category trucks like the Ford F-150, Silverado 1500, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan etal. There is no question that a RAM 2500 with 6.7l Cummins will do more than the RAM 1500 with a 3.0l diesel. But, not everyone wants or needs a truck with the capabilities of the RAM 2500. Not to mention they cost more to purchase, cost more to maintain, insurance is higher and they consume more fuel.
When the Titan and Tundra diesels comes out in a few years with the V8 Cummins, there will be more apples to compare apples.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, this information dates back the late 60's and early 70's from General Motors and most of it is still the same with all automotive engines today.

Water boils at 212 Degrees.

The boiling point increases 3 degrees per pound of pressure.

Most radiator caps were 15 lbs.

This gives you 45 more degrees before boiling.

Now we are at 257 degrees.

Now add 30 more degrees with a proper 50/50 mixture of coolant.

Now we hit a max of 287 degrees before boil over.

General Motors set their idiot light at 262 degrees.

Engine damage starts only when the water/coolant boils out of the radiator and into the street.

Some newer vehicles [Corvettes] have up to 25 lb pressure caps.

Worrying about a measly 200 to 220 degrees is like panicking because one rivet popped on your trailer.

Ok, so taking this line of reason it's logical ( ? ) extreme, a Corvette with a 25 psi cap and 50/50 mix of coolant, we would have 212+75+30=317 degrees of temp before boil over.
And if "up to the point of water running out on the street" is a-ok.......well......hmmmm....good luck with that.

I'm kinda glad my motors run at something less than 200F water temp.

I wish those with the VM diesel best of luck with them. I hope it works out for all involved.

[drew05]

I was at the dealer ealier this week, and saw a 1500 with the diesel option. The diesel option package was $4,000 above the 3.0 L V-6. The GVW Rating is 6,950 pounds.

I forget what the Hemi option costs, some had it and some seemed to have it standard or part of a package...

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

Ok, so taking this line of reason it's logical ( ? ) extreme, a Corvette with a 25 psi cap and 50/50 mix of coolant, we would have 212+75+30=317 degrees of temp before boil over.
And if "up to the point of water running out on the street" is a-ok.......well......hmmmm....good luck with that.

I'm kinda glad my motors run at something less than 200F water temp.

Don't agree with your extrapolation.

My vehicle was designed with a higher pressure cap as well (2.0 bar, 30 psi). It isn't so the engine can run that hot, it is to handle heat soak after shutdown. I suspect the Corvette is the same.

I wouldn't worry about 220 F coolant at all. And oil that is 20 F hotter than that is fine.

[Lance M]

The 3.0L EcoDiesel is a $4,000 option when the 3.6L Pentastar V6 gasser is standard. The 5.7L Hemi is an $1,150 option when the 3.6L V6 gasser is standard. The 3.0L EcoDiesel is a $2,850 option when the 5.7L Hemi is standard.

[Lance M]

Originally Posted by handn

The transmission cooler is in the radiator. The transmission fluid runs hotter than the coolant temps. There is a direct correlation between short transmission life and hot temps.

From what I can tell looking at the RAM parts manual, the RAM 1500 transmission cooler is an external cooler only. The transmission fluid does not enter the engine coolant radiator. They are completely separate.


There is also a transmission heater. This appears to be plumbing from the transmission through the engine oil cooler.

[perryg114]

Well if you buy one of these, I would definitely get an oil analysis done to determine how the engine is doing. This will tell you things like how hard it is on the oil, and the degree of wear metals in the oil etc. You can also learn what is the optimum oil change interval. They can probably tell you if the engine is consistently running hot and is damaging the oil. An external scan gauge is not a bad idea to determine if the internal gauges are in the ball park or not. You can break anything and having proper gauges well tell you when to back off.

Perry

[Lance M]

I agree that oil analysis is the thing to do, Perry.
There is a lot of good information on Engine Oils here. Way more than I'll ever be able to fully comprehend, but still lots of information.

[perryg114]

Yeah I am a member at bobistheoilguy.com . Those guys know their stuff. The last time I had an oil analysis done or needed to was when I had an old Ford Diesel. It was a pain but it had seen better days. The only diesel I have now is my little Kubota and I have never had to do anything to the engine other than change the oil in 10 yrs. Of course it does not have any of the new EPA BS on it like the trucks do, soot catches, DEF tanks Etc.

Perry