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cramar · 03-06-2015, 02:00 PM

I'm looking at buying a used 1/2 ton pickup as a tow vehicle for our 1992 25' Classic. Since I don't want to spend over $20k (Cdn), I am limited in my choices. This price point puts me at around 2010 or earlier. Tundras are extremely rare in my area (and cost more), Rams are as plentiful as F-150s. The Ford EB or 5.0L engines were not available back then, so they had the 5.4L V8. But I'm partial to Ram since the proven Hemi has been around a long time. Ideally, I'd like to find a two-wheel drive with locking differential, tow package, extended cab with 6' bed (for bikes), and the biggest gas tank available. Fat chance! Most of the used Rams are 4x4 so I might have to go that route. I even saw a low mileage 2004 Hemi ST for around $12k.

I have a some Ram questions when finding a suitable truck:

1: How do I know what axle ratio it has? Would rpm at 60mph indicate?
2: What kind of locking differentials were available back then, and what was available for 4x4, Limited Slip? How do I know if a 4x4 has LS?
3. How do I tell what size gas tank is in it?

Thanks for any help.

BoldAdventure · 03-06-2015, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cramar

I'm looking at buying a used 1/2 ton pickup as a tow vehicle for our 1992 25' Classic. Since I don't want to spend over $20k (Cdn), I am limited in my choices. This price point puts me at around 2010 or earlier. Tundras are extremely rare in my area (and cost more), Rams are as plentiful as F-150s. The Ford EB or 5.0L engines were not available back then, so they had the 5.4L V8. But I'm partial to Ram since the proven Hemi has been around a long time. Ideally, I'd like to find a two-wheel drive with locking differential, tow package, extended cab with 6' bed (for bikes), and the biggest gas tank available. Fat chance! Most of the used Rams are 4x4 so I might have to go that route. I even saw a low mileage 2004 Hemi ST for around $12k.

I have a some Ram questions when finding a suitable truck:

1: How do I know what axle ratio it has? Would rpm at 60mph indicate?
2: What kind of locking differentials were available back then, and what was available for 4x4, Limited Slip? How do I know if a 4x4 has LS?
3. How do I tell what size gas tank is in it?

Thanks for any help.

I have a 2010, love our truck. Go here: Ram Trucks - Contact Us click Equipment Listing on the left and enter the VIN of the truck, you will get a build sheet that will lists everything.

This is how we verified our truck had the options we wanted sight unseen. Our truck came from Salt Lake City, Ut.

I would like to point out that the older Hemi's prior to 2009 are in fact not the same as the new Hemi's. They are just the older Magnum V8's that Dodge was running for awhile with hemispherical heads. In 2009 the Hemi got a complete engine over haul, very similar to GM going from SB 350 to the LS series of engines. Wikipedia doesn't do a very good job of explaining this, but: Chrysler Hemi engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - source.

The 32 gallon tank is hard to find, so good luck, we lucked out. I wanted 4x4 with 3.92 gears and that tank.

3.92 is what you will be aiming for in your price point. I'd shoot to find an 09 or 10 that you can snag for cash. What you are looking for is doable. We paid a few bucks more for ours because we got 4x4 with ram boxes and all the options.

BoldAdventure · 03-06-2015, 02:38 PM

Also wanted to add that the Ram's have a service tag on the rear axle that lists which gears it has if you are looking at one in person and want to scramble under there.

RedSHED · 03-06-2015, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

...

I would like to point out that the older Hemi's prior to 2009 are in fact not the same as the new Hemi's. They are just the older Magnum V8's that Dodge was running for awhile with hemispherical heads. In 2009 the Hemi got a complete engine over haul, very similar to GM going from SB 350 to the LS series of engines. Wikipedia doesn't do a very good job of explaining this, but: Chrysler Hemi engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - source.
...

Not to pick nits, but I didn't interpret the wiki article that way. The 5.7 was a clean break from the 318/360 whether Magnum or otherwise.
I like wiki in general, but allpar might be an overall better source for some details.
The modern 5.7 Mopar Hemi V8 engine

But yeah, it's done well for them.
Nice post, thanks.

Sodbust · 03-07-2015, 10:55 AM

My son had one of the first hemi's.. I wasnt impressed with it after growing up with the real 392s and 426s.. He had a lot of problems with it.. Broken piston rings, low oil pressure and something related to the valve train.. ( yes he ran it hard)

I got wind of the rebuild of the new hemi and started to follow its progress. They started with a clean sheet of paper and I feel came up with one of the better 5L based engines made. 400 hp,, and still able to see 20+ miles per gallon on a regular basis with 3.92 gearing and 4x4..

We have the 32 gallon tank,, but I would not make that item a deal breaker. With the mpg dash data it gives you a running count of how many miles you have left in the tank for the given load.

We pull a 72 Overlander with a Yamaha Rhino in the box ( 1200 lbs).. Its right on the gross limit but just added some air bags to gain another inch of axle travel for pot holes so we don't rattle any teeth loose.

So far I am real happy,, as it was a adjustment coming from a 98 RAM with a turbo Cummins. Yes its night and day but over all the hemi does it's job and gleans the cheaper fuel costs of regular gas. In most cases the price difference between diesel in our area runs $0.70 higher.. So getting the same mpg with a gasser I can live without the raw power of the diesel.

The only thing I do to baby this hemi,, is if we are pulling a heavy head wind or hills and the transmission keeps hunting for a gear,, I just pull it down to 4th gear as thats direct drive and seldom do I ever see the transmission get over 150f doing so.. 1 time on a 107f day,, it did get to 170f but that was at 6000 feet asl.. It as darn hot that day..

Sodbust

KJRitchie · 03-09-2015, 10:57 AM

After two Chrysler products, Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan, I'm staying away from Fiat-Chrysler.

Kelvin

pappy19 · 03-10-2015, 04:08 PM

If you have $20k to spend, you would be better off to put $4k down on a lease on a new vehicle. Put the remaining money in an interest bearing account to pay the monthly payment. A monthly payment on a lease for a new vehicle will be the same or less than the used one. You could also tell them you are going to lease and pay the entire lease up front, having no payments for 30 months. In the mean time, you save each month the amount you need at the end of the lease to buy the vehicle. Always lease with the minimum miles, usually 10-12k/year, because at the end of the lease, if you buy the vehicle, the number of miles doesn't matter. I always lease before I buy, that way you know the history of the vehicle.

BoldAdventure · 03-10-2015, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappy19

If you have $20k to spend, you would be better off to put $4k down on a lease on a new vehicle. Put the remaining money in an interest bearing account to pay the monthly payment. A monthly payment on a lease for a new vehicle will be the same or less than the used one. You could also tell them you are going to lease and pay the entire lease up front, having no payments for 30 months. In the mean time, you save each month the amount you need at the end of the lease to buy the vehicle. Always lease with the minimum miles, usually 10-12k/year, because at the end of the lease, if you buy the vehicle, the number of miles doesn't matter. I always lease before I buy, that way you know the history of the vehicle.

Please tell me where you bank that has an interest above 1% so I can immediately move some money, because right now in the US, the national rates are pretty terrible for cash. https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/resources/rates/

joelisac · 03-11-2015, 02:05 PM

Papi, please tell me how leasing will be less then buying?

BoldAdventure · 03-11-2015, 05:09 PM

Yeah I still don't understand how paying interest is somehow cheaper than not paying interest. I mean my grand daddy taught me not to pay interest on depreciating assets. But I did skip math class a lot in high school. I'm all for leverage thought. I don't buy into Dave Ramsey's philosophy of no credit ever, so curiously waiting for a detailed explanation.

I wouldn't mind a 2500 Power Wagon with 6.7 Hemi. (Tim the tool man grunting) More POOOOWER!

Moflash · 03-11-2015, 07:05 PM

Pick tow vehicle with the equipment required for the task at hand.Pick a good resale color combination.Then add all the right option that people want when it comes time to trade.Take very good care of it cosmetically and service it.Keep it 36 mos and trade at or before 39,900 miles.This is the optimum conditions set for lowest cost of ownership.
I drive new $67k F350 Platinum every 3 years $5k per year as a example.
Leasing does not work out in this case.But it does work on vehicles that the mfg offers subsidized interest rates and high residual values.In which case you don't want to buy it at the end of term.

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

andreasduess · 03-11-2015, 07:17 PM

The best thing about leasing is that people who don't wish to lease can pick up as-good-as-new vehicles with a perfect service history, often with generous original warrantee remaining, for 50% of the original price. Which is what I do. I'd never buy a new car, it loses 20% of its value the second you start it up.

pappy19 · 03-12-2015, 10:00 AM

Leasing is really quite simple, especially the Ford lease, which has been the best vehicle lease in the business. First you must clear your head about all of the perceived negatives regarding vehicle leases, most of which are totally untrue.

The whole object of a lease is to get you into a new vehicle without paying as much as you would for an outright purchase. First off, you only pay a sales tax on the monthly payment, not on the purchase price. That alone will save you a pile on a $45k+ vehicle. Take the example above where this fellow has $20k to buy a used truck. If he negotiated a lease on a $45k, after he puts down $4k, his monthly payment would be around $724. If he purchased the $45k vehicle plus 6% sales tax, that's $47,700-$20,000, makes his payment for the remaining $27,700 for 30 months at $980/month. At the end of the lease, he has the option of buying the vehicle for the lease purchase residual of usually 50% of the sticker or $22,500.

Other options are to use the $20k to pay off the lease at the beginning and not have a payment for 24-30 months. One could also take out a second mortgage for the entire lease amount for 30 months and you would pay on the mortgage each month instead of a car payment and it would be a deduction on your income tax.

If nothing else, the fact that you only pay sales tax on the monthly payment on a lease vs paying interest on a financed payment where you are upside down for 4 of the 5 years of payments, makes a lease a better way to go, IMHO. Clear as mud, right?

BoldAdventure · 03-15-2015, 10:34 AM

Just make sure you get the AIR RIG edition of the Ram to tow your Airstream...

joelisac · 03-15-2015, 11:28 AM

Well Papi, I'll use your numbers.

Leasing; $724 a month for 36 months = $26,064 + $4,000 = 30,064

if at the end the truck is worth 22K then that's a total of $52,064

Buying; 45K plus 6% sales tax is $50,231.

60 months at 2.9percent is $754 a month.

After 36 months, that's $27,144 + $5,000 down payment = $32,144. You owe $18,087 to pay off whereas you own 22,000 in the lease. But you could sell your truck for a profit of $3913 if it's really worth $22,000. The lease you have to give it back with no ownership or profit.

pappy19 · 03-16-2015, 11:45 AM

You still don't seem to understand, so here it is right from the Dodge Truck web site.
I will use their standard equipped "Outdoorsman" 4X$ with the 6'4" bed, Crew cab.

Lease is $386/mo for 36 months; with a .06% sales tax, that's $409/month with $1800 down. At the end of the lease you will have paid $13,896 + 1800 or $15,696. The residual cost to purchase at the end of 36 months is $19, 215. (Most residuals are at or about 50% of the sticker price)

Buy at $38,430 plus .06% sales tax = $40,736 - $1800 down = $38,936/60 months = $649/month payment.

Any way you figure it, a lease is a better, more efficient way to go. At the end of the lease, if you don't like the truck or you want a different vehicle, you can turn it in or sell it. If you buy it, you are basically stuck with it until you are not upside down or you lose money on a trade or sell for at least 4 years.

andreasduess · 03-16-2015, 02:31 PM

It depends on how you use your cars.

If you continue leasing then there'a never-ending payment. I tend to buy my cars for cash as they come off lease with a 50% price tag from new, then keep them until I decide it's time to sell after three or four years, making back about 1/2 of what I paid for them, then rinse and repeat.

That way I pay about 1/4 of the price of a new vehicle every four years, but get to drive cars that are, these days, as good as new - our Honda arrived with less than 25k miles on the clock and was absolutely spotless. I tend to buy dealer serviced vehicles with a warrantee and never had any issues that way.

pappy19 · 03-16-2015, 04:27 PM

I always buy, but at the end of my lease, no matter how many miles. Again, with the money you would spend on a used vehicle in all cash money, say $25,000, you could lease a brand new vehicle and pay the monthly payment, or, you could pay the 24-30 month lease total up front and get a discount for a lump sum payment, probably around $16,000. Then you would have no vehicle payment for the lease term and have $9,000 left over to save or whatever. At the end of the lease, if you made payments to yourself over the 30 month period, you would have enough to buy the vehicle at the end of the lease, turn it in for another new vehicle lease or whatever. Many more choices. This way you get the latest technology and safety improvements and you are never upside down and have the option of turning it in, buying and keeping or buying and then selling. But, to each their own.

cramar · 03-17-2015, 03:02 PM

Well thanks to everyone for their comments. The leasing issues raised were interesting. I can see when people such as Moflash want a new vehicle every 3 years and are willing to spend $5k/yr for this privilege, then leasing is the way to go. I'm different. I don't mind driving a 15yr-old vehicle if it is still reliable. Just yesterday, my wife traded her 14yr-old Honda, which she bought 10 years ago (at end of someone's lease), for another 4-year old (end of lease) low-mileage Honda in perfect shape. I would have driven the old one as long as possible. She plans to keep it for 10 years again. Cost of ownership/yr is a lot less than driving new every few years. To each is own, but I'd rather have my money earning money rather than owning depreciating assets.

Back to the initial query, maybe some form of partial financing might work. I haven't found anything suitable yet for $20k, but for a few thousand more there are plenty of 3-4 year old F-150 and Ram trucks around. I'm starting to lean towards F-150 (probably 5.0L). I'll look into the leasing aspect since tax here is 13% on purchasing anything.

BoldAdventure · 03-17-2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cramar

To each is own, but I'd rather have my money earning money rather than owning depreciating assets.

Back to the initial query, maybe some form of partial financing might work. I haven't found anything suitable yet for $20k, but for a few thousand more there are plenty of 3-4 year old F-150 and Ram trucks around. I'm starting to lean towards F-150 (probably 5.0L). I'll look into the leasing aspect since tax here is 13% on purchasing anything.

You and I think alike. I don't normally finance depreciating assets.

But one thing I have done to obtain my perfect 820 credit score is finance things when I have either 100% or 50% of the cash. But usually never finance if I don't already have 50%. I'll set the cash aside in an savings account and then pay it off in a year. Usually 9-10 months reflects well on credit.

So if you have 20K, and access to a credit union, and you found a truck for 28K I'd finance 20 and put down 8. Put the remainder in a savings account and pay out of it every month, try to spread it out for at least 9 months min. Anything less isn't really a boost to your credit.

A number of years ago I started building my credit this way. I borrowed $1000 from my credit union, setup automatic payments and around the 9 month mark paid off the remainder. Then I went back and borrowed 5K, then after that I had saved up 12k to buy a used car. We put the 12K into an account and got a used auto loan. I kept that one a tad longer, 12 months paid off.

The difference IMO is that in any emergency I can quickly exit my loan. VS MR. Leasing who if he loses his income is ____ up a creek without an emergency fund.

Leasing is great if you want a new truck all the time, but 38 > 20 because MATH.

However as I mentioned earlier, nothing wrong with leveraging to your advantage.

At least, this is my own personal opinion on the subject. Everyone can use their own tools to achieve their own goals.

I've heard good things about the 5.0 in the Fords. My wife liked the interior on Ford better, but I preferred the Ram's interior. I've always been a Chevy guy, but the year models we where looking at really disappointed. I felt Ram was giving me the most bang for dollar with the options we wanted.

Leather, Heated/Cooled Seats, Tow Package, Ram Boxes, Sunroof, console, 4x4, 3.92 gears and came in at 26K.

The Lariat's and King Ranch's I looked at over on the Ford side kept costing even more or if they where the same price had higher milage. But in the end, you buy what you like.

Good luck in your quest.