Two Airstream rollovers in a month

[Climber]

The writers of that article lost credibility with me by claiming that humid air is heavier than dry air. Just isn't so. It's the opposite in fact. Ask any pilot.


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[nickcrowhurst]

Originally Posted by Climber

The writers of that article lost credibility with me by claiming that humid air is heavier than dry air. Just isn't so. It's the opposite in fact.

Here's a reference with a clear explanation:
WHY IS MOIST AIR LESS DENSE THAN DRY AIR AT SAME TEMPERATURE
Nick.

[Andrew T]

You know what?

Andy and CanAm could be real assets to this forum if they didn't catch such a rash of crap all the time.

People that don't feel the need to have a heavy duty one ton might even actually benefit from their REAL WORLD experience.

Hi Everyone

The "rash of Crap" really does not bother me and does not keep me from posting more often. I just don't always have that much time.

In the case of this thread I don't think there is anywhere near enough information to really know what happened with these two units. I would guess their hitches were not set up properly as few are. The size of the vehicle has little to do with it. The closest I ever came to rolling a trailer was a 3200 pound 22' Argosy on a 3/4 ton truck (not hooked up right). The little Argosy was throwing that 3/4 ton around like it was a toy.

In terms of the Honda Odyssey towing we have set up over 1000 Odyssey's since 1999 and over 3000 front drive vans in total. We put 30,000 towing miles on front drive vans ourselves every year. They are almost the perfect chassis layout for towing with a low centre of gravity and pretty good tire and wheel combinations.

This link will take you to a video we did on the Tuscon ESC. It is a great piece of technology but I doubt those that should have it will buy it. It is not geared so much to Airstream because I did not see that as its main use for our customers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF_o...ature=youtu.be

I hope this helps.

Andrew T

[Ultradog]

Well,
I didn't read the entire 24 pages of this thread (just the first 13)
Not much that's new in it anyway. Mostly it was the usual suspects voicing their usual opinions.
If there was one thing I took from it it is how afraid and worry prone some people are.
Using a huge TV with all the WD stuff and all the safety gadgets, etc, etc just to pull their camper some place - so they can worry about getting back home safely again.
Threads like this make me understand why we have such a proliferation of safety laws these days. Too many people are afraid of things so they clamor for laws to make them feel safer. And they get them.
But I worry too i guess and i am afraid of some things.
Mostly I worry that they will legislate and codify the amount of fear and worry that is required to do any and everything.
And I'm afraid that someday I shall be ticketed if my knuckles aren't white enough, my teeth aren't clenched enough or my sphincter is too relaxed.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by switz

Tuson is working on a trailer side brake control to stop sway.

http://www.direclink.com/Sway%20Cont...Guide%204C.pdf

Yes....after it starts, I'd rather prevent it.

Bob

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Glenritas

jcl ,

The letters CGVWR mean Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating .

That means the weight of the 2008 Honda Odyssey and the 34' Airstream in this case can not exceed 8,410# according to the 2008 Honda Odyssey owners manual .
Unfortunately Andy's rig weighs 13,000# and that my friend is 4,590 # heavier then the CGVWR or about the same as the unladen weight of another 2008 Honda Odyssey .

What part of this don't you and Andy understand.

I wonder why folks are so bashful about posting their CAT slips?

From all the discussion here, it's certainly not that they don't scale their rigs... right?

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Well,

I didn't read the entire 24 pages of this thread (just the first 13)

Not much that's new in it anyway. Mostly it was the usual suspects voicing their usual opinions.

If there was one thing I took from it it is how afraid and worry prone some people are.

Using a huge TV with all the WD stuff and all the safety gadgets, etc, etc just to pull their camper some place - so they can worry about getting back home safely again.

Threads like this make me understand why we have such a proliferation of safety laws these days. Too many people are afraid of things so they clamor for laws to make them feel safer. And they get them.

But I worry too i guess and i am afraid of some things.

Mostly I worry that they will legislate and codify the amount of fear and worry that is required to do any and everything.

And I'm afraid that someday I shall be ticketed if my knuckles aren't white enough, my teeth aren't clenched enough or my sphincter is too relaxed.

Yep!

When in doubt put the politicians and bureaucrats in charge,,, because they are so smart and non self serving!

What we need is a long and cumbersome recreational vehicle licensing and permit process for both vehicles and drivers, with fast and hard standards.

A side benefit would be that there will be no disagreements like on this page, it will all be handled via law and regulation. No more controversy!

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Well,
I didn't read the entire 24 pages of this thread (just the first 13)
Not much that's new in it anyway. Mostly it was the usual suspects voicing their usual opinions.
If there was one thing I took from it it is how afraid and worry prone some people are.
Using a huge TV with all the WD stuff and all the safety gadgets, etc, etc just to pull their camper some place - so they can worry about getting back home safely again.
Threads like this make me understand why we have such a proliferation of safety laws these days. Too many people are afraid of things so they clamor for laws to make them feel safer. And they get them.
But I worry too i guess and i am afraid of some things.
Mostly I worry that they will legislate and codify the amount of fear and worry that is required to do any and everything.
And I'm afraid that someday I shall be ticketed if my knuckles aren't white enough, my teeth aren't clenched enough or my sphincter is too relaxed.

I strongly disagree.

It's the folks who blindly (willfully or not) disregard basic understanding of a system, or even common sense that cause the over-proliferation of laws and regulations.

There was a story in the local paper of a thirty-something man who was killed in a 'horrendous' fireworks accident.
Turns out, he strapped a lit mortar to his head.
Our congressmen are already bleating for more stringent firework laws.

Extreme example? Maybe, but you get my point.

PS. Am I reading you right? Are you criticizing people for using an overabundance of caution? For researching, weighing, following manufacturer design ratings?

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

I strongly disagree.



It's the folks who blindly (willfully or not) disregard basic understanding of a system, or even common sense that cause the over-proliferation of laws and regulations.



There was a story in the local paper of a thirty-something man who was killed in a 'horrendous' fireworks accident.

Turns out, he strapped a lit mortar to his head.

Our congressmen are already bleating for more stringent firework laws.



Extreme example? Maybe, but you get my point.

And people are always getting hurt and killed slipping in their showers and tubs, mostly stupidity or accidents?

There will always be people who do stupid things, and there will always be accidents. This can not be legislated out of existence.

No matter how "perfect" a tow vehicle setup, there will be those who will exceed its capabilities.

[switz]

Sounds like a Darwin award candidate!

[boondockdad]

I agree.
Even with careful planning, accidents happen.

But at what point would it be considered 'reckless'

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Climber

The writers of that article lost credibility with me by claiming that humid air is heavier than dry air. Just isn't so. It's the opposite in fact. Ask any pilot.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

If humid air were denser than dry air, wouldn't all the clouds fall out of the sky?

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

I agree.
Even with careful planning, accidents happen.

But at what point would it be considered 'reckless'

Now that is the question.

What if I claim to be an expert tower with over 30 years of experience and hundreds of thousands of miles towing trailers of all sizes, and I say that my 31 foot Airstream tows behind my 1/2 ton truck safe and stable, rock solid?

Am I being "reckless" for not getting a bigger truck?

Are ALL Airstream owners "reckless" for not getting an intrinsically more stable 5th wheel trailer and a Kodiak or F-650 to pull it?

If so by who's say so?

My experience says that I know what a good combination feels like and how it performs, so if what I say about the manners of my combination is not true, then I must be a liar.

Can you see where the feathers of 1/2 ton towers get ruffled by certain claims in these discussions?

[BoldAdventure]

I have regularly made the argument that experience does not equal knowledge. You can luck out doing something wrong for 30yrs and still be wrong.

[J. Morgan]

Well you could say that, but then I have never rolled anything, so I say you should save your generalizations for someone else.

[DC Bruce]

One thought about exceeding the Odyssey's GCWR by 50%: is Andy going to buy his customers a new transaxle when it fails for being grossly overloaded? About 10 years ago, Honda had a rash of transmission failures on its V-6 cars, SUVs and minivans. Supposedly, they fixed it. But when I bought a new Pilot in '08, the dealer put a lot of pressure on me to buy an add-on tranny cooler even though I did not buy a hitch and had no plans to tow anything. I didn't and 7 years and 108000 miles later, the tranny seems just fine. This reminds me of the thread about the guy with the Chrysler 300 who was told he could tow a pretty good sized Airstream with no problem. Problem was the cooling system was not designed for the heat load of the harder working engine and tranny, and it failed. Most people don't appreciate the fact that the cooling system in a car is not designed to handle the heat rejection of its engine on a sustained basis when the engine is developing full rated power. A truck cooling system is designed to do that, which is why truck radiators are so large. Compare, for example, the size of the radiator on a Corvette with the size of the radiator on the Silverado 1500 6.2 liter, which is essentially the same engine tuned for slightly less horsepower and slightly more peak torque. There's no comparison. Anyone volunteering to tow a 27 foot Airstream with a Corvette? I mean, the engine is more powerful than the one in the Silverado 1500, or the gas engine in the 2500. So, with the right hitch set-up, it ought to work. 😉

[sheriff1]

Originally Posted by markdoane

If humid air were denser than dry air, wouldn't all the clouds fall out of the sky?

Isn't that called rain?


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"

[J. Morgan]

Rain is when the moisture in the air condenses from gas to a liquid and becomes heavier than air and falls.

#JustSayin...

And,,,, a big part of this thread was already inflammatory when a mob decides that anyone towing with a vehicle smaller than theirs is "reckless", and by extension if these people disagree with this conclusion, they are stupid, ignorant, or liars.

Like I said before, there is one guy who is thinking that a 1/2 ton is insufficient for towing his Bambi..

Lol. Persuasive arguments don't make an argument correct.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by markdoane

If humid air were denser than dry air, wouldn't all the clouds fall out of the sky?

Nope. Gravity causes air at lower elevations to be more dense than at higher elevations, so the air +humidity (clouds) at a certain elevation are less dense than air below. (much simplified version of the actual dynamics)

[boondockdad]

are you guys troll-jacking this thread, or am I completely missing something?