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Old 07-02-2015, 02:08 PM   #99
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When I was with the Fire Department we removed charred remains of a local lady from a burning building. She was a heavy smoker so we figured she mostly surely went to sleep while smoking, causing the fire. Investigators later learned that it was from a faulty electrical circuit in the kitchen.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:19 PM   #100
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Too many people think pulling the hill is the challenge. The reality is a lot of RV accidents result from people going too fast downhill when momentum becomes your enemy. Too much momentum with a trailer heavier than the tow vehicle is a recipe for disaster. Gear down and go slow off of mountain passes, especially out West where the grades are longer and your brakes can burn up before you get to the bottom.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:39 PM   #101
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another self-congratulatory "I have a huge truck thread"

seems very trollish to me

I'll bite anyways:

The physics state that SUVs can roll over;especially if it's an OJ ford bronco with firestone tires; And if you have so many bricks in the back of your pickup that the front wheels are in the air, it will not steer very well.

You can adjust the gain curve on your brake controller to make it more aggressive than the curve on your TV brakes, good luck finding one that fires "before" you hit the TV brakes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:52 PM   #102
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SUV and huge trucks are two different things. Hasn't been a bronco made in years.our job is done here!
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:57 PM   #103
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Question

"good luck finding one that fires "before" you hit the TV brakes."

There are BC's available that activate when the brake lights come on.
Try touching your brakes ever so lightly 'til the lights come on and decide for yourself if thats "before" you start slowing down.....it is for our TruControl, the AS brakes always come on first.

POI....how often do you follow someone where the brk lights never go off.

Bob
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:31 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Isuzusweet View Post
Surprisingly enough this is very much a myth. Older cars did have large bodies made of mild steel, lots of space around engines and such, and a very limited option list.

By comparison, today's modern cars are built with lots of high tenstile steel, multi airbags, lots of options and the corresponding wiring harnesses to power everything.

For example a 1976 Buick Century, which surprisingly was rated as a mid size car but was a body on frame, solid rear axle, seats six vehicle weighs the same as a modern Hyundai Gensis Coupe, half the size. A Hyundai Santa Fe mid size SUV weighs the same as a full size 70's Caprice Classic or an 80's full size FJ60 Toyota Landcruiser.

I'm often shocked at the growing curb weights of modern vehicles and can't seem to get my head around that my 2003 4DR Chevy Tracker V6 body on frame, solid rear axle 4x4 weighs almost 600lbs LESS than that Hyundai Gensis Coupe. The Chevy doesn't have a 8sp auto, ABS, VDC, Navigation, back up sensors, 10 airbags and the list goes on; but if you were to ask anyone which one was heavier, the Chevy would be picked.

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Old 07-02-2015, 04:02 PM   #105
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I think that the stability discussion here is limited to roll over. It is hard to roll a vehicle unless a tire blows, excessive speed etc. Yes a truck with 4000 lbs of stuff in it is more likely to roll over but much less likely to do a 180 in the rain. Empty trucks lack directional stability when the rear end brakes loose because of wheel spin, braking etc. There are three axes to consider for stability, roll, yaw, and pitch. You need to worry about the first two. An empty truck is unstable about the yaw axis and a full one is unstable about the roll axis. ALL of my problems with empty trucks concern the yaw axis stability and not the roll axis. If I had roll axis problems, chances are I would not be here to tell about it. A Truck pulling a trailer with nothing in the bed is probably as bad as an empty truck not pulling anything. With an empty truck the trailer is controlling the weight on the back wheels making the truck less stable in yaw and that leads to roll over when the whole thing gets unstable.

Perry

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These statements seem to conflict.

I completely disagree with the first one. It takes no talent what-so-ever. The only thing less stable than an empty pickup is a full one. In truck driver school, they taught us that "heavy and/or high" is bad, and the more you have of either, the less stable the vehicle will be (and also, longer time/distance to stop.).

The report in the IP stated that one of the vehicles was an older Explorer--these were particularly unstable. Remember the Firestone tire debacle from a few years back? It was a particularly bad situation because when you get a blow-out in one of these vehicles, the result is often catastrophic...practically guaranteed to roll over at highway speed. If it was happening in your typical sedans, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.
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Old 07-02-2015, 04:47 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoffmanP View Post
Too many people think pulling the hill is the challenge. The reality is a lot of RV accidents result from people going too fast downhill when momentum becomes your enemy. Too much momentum with a trailer heavier than the tow vehicle is a recipe for disaster. Gear down and go slow off of mountain passes, especially out West where the grades are longer and your brakes can burn up before you get to the bottom.
I agree with you. There is one thing that I always stress when my spouse is driving and we come to a significant downgrade. That is, "You must be at the slowest speed you feel you will need to maintain and the lowest gear you will need to be in BEFORE you start down the hill". It is much easier to speed up a bit later if you feel it is prudent than it is to slow later if it becomes necessary. It is so easy to get yourself in a situation where you need to downshift and discover you are going too fast to downshift without over revving the engine. Also it is important to be sure you are getting a significant amount of your braking from the trailer when braking is necessary.

Ken
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Old 07-02-2015, 05:43 PM   #107
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Met Jerome and Vera 2 weeks before at a vintage rally in Horicon, WI. One of the conversations with Jerome was using his truck as a TV.

When I first heard about the accident, I suspected his Spartan didn't have enough tongue weight. He had restored/rehabbed trailer. Accident happened on a straight stretch of road.

After the accident, was told by some friends coming back from Back to the 50s car show, where Jerome was, that they passed him on the freeway and the "trailer was all over the road".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprouty View Post
This hits close to home a timely reminder. I did not know the couple involved but they lived not to far from me. We had mutual friends and everyone that knew them said they were great people "living the dream" with their vintage Studebaker and Spartan Camper.

"MENOMONIE -- An elderly Baraboo woman died Sunday afternoon after a vintage Studebaker pickup and camper she was traveling in ran off I-94 and overturned near eastbound MM 36.

The State Patrol reported that Vera M. Scoles, 85, of Baraboo, was the passenger in a 1951 pickup being driven by Jerome L. Thiessen, 74, also of Baraboo. Thiessen apparently lost control of the truck and the 1948 camper trailer in-tow and rolled into the eastbound ditch.
Theissen sustained life-threatening injuries and was transported by air ambulance to Luther-Mayo hospital in Eau Claire.
The accident was reported at 1:54 p.m. Sunday. Dunn County sheriff's deputies and Menomonie firefighters assisted at the scene.

The couple was thought to have been en route home from St. Paul, Minn., where thousands of car afficionados had gathered for three days at the Minnesota State Fairgrounds for the annual Minnesota Street Rod Assocation Back to the Fifties car rally.
The crash remains under investigation."
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Old 07-02-2015, 05:45 PM   #108
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Prodigy P2 and P3 have what is called "boost" options. You can set them easily for different levels of initial boost. As soon as you touch the brake pedal, actually as soon as the brake lights come on, the controller sends power to the trailer brakes. By setting the boost to a higher level, you can effectively make the trailer brakes come on slightly before the truck brakes. I have a P2 in my Nissan. It works well. Some folks don't like the initial grab though, because you can feel it, they may have the impression something is not right. For those folks, simply pressing the button on the controller will disable the feature.
We have a P3 in the Tundra, and the boost setting works well. It is triggered by the brake light switch, and is immediate, before the pedal has any effect on the truck's brakes. It has 3 settings, which vary the amount of initial voltage sent to the trailer brakes. Regardless of the setting, the trailer brakes will lead the truck brakes. It is irritating at low speeds in city traffic, since the trailer will "jerk" on the truck at the lightest pedal pressure. It's easy to turn off in traffic, and easy to reset when on the road. So far, it has provided us with controllable descents on steep grades. But - importantly - as has been mentioned, it's essential to start the descent at the lowest speed that will be needed.
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:03 PM   #109
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There is a forum member who rolled an Airstream and a Duramax/Allison 2500. Just this week I saw a Ford 250 in the body shop due to a camper rollover. So much for the 2500 is safer than the 1500.
I do occasionally feel the 8,800# behind me pushing on me, like the light just went yellow and there is a police car at the intersection-
The anti-lock brakes come into play-


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Old 07-02-2015, 06:03 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
A grade descent is the most dangerous piece of road for a combined vehicle.

The trailer is always trying to pass the tow vehicle. It is traveling faster.

Tow vehicle braking (as with an exhaust brake) WITHOUT stronger application of the trailer brakes sets up the rig for loss of control.

The lash up now has slack in it.

Add strong wind gusts, or a close passing semi, and one has a prescription for disaster.

TT and TV design still trumps weight and size for given vehicles as regards resistance to roll over. To say otherwise is foolish.

Proper speed in the proper gear and TT brakes leading in application force is the prescription. Learn to use the brake control override.

To a lesser extent the same phenomenon exists in exiting an Interstate and is UNIVERSALLY ignored by RVers: the posted exit speed is to reduce that rolling force to a minimum needed to re-accelerate onto the service road.

Put the tension back into the lash-up.
Thank you for this.

I'd encourage everyone else to read and re-read this until they fully digest it. Lots of postulating in this thread about COG, sway, engine brakes, etc... but until you understand the above, the others are only minor variables and distractions to understanding the fundamental dynamic pointed out above.

Effectively, the whole TV/trailer setup is less dynamically stable, in the above condition.

Think about balancing a pendulum upside down. Trailer being the pendulum trying to get past the tow vehicle that is balancing the pendulum on its hitch.

Even the most beefy of tow vehicles, given enough external variables, speed included, are susceptible.
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:25 PM   #111
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Does anybody know how one of those UHaul car trailer carrier whatchamacallit things work (for braking and balancing). I have to haul our SIL's Chevy Colorado on one of 'em from Ft Campbell to Ashville this weekend. There are some pretty good grades on I-40 going into Ashville and I want to make sure I'm set up correctly.

I think the UHaul uses centifigal braking. That worries me some.

Thoughts?

Jim

Edit: towing with an F250 V10 Super Duty. Plenty of truck.
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:36 PM   #112
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Two Airstream rollovers in a month

Many of the U-Haul trailers use surge brakes. Those operate on the principal that when you step on the brakes on the tow vehicle, the inertia of the trailer pushes the trailer towards the tow vehicle. The coupler area of the trailer slides and activates the brakes based on how much force the trailer exerts towards the tow vehicle. It's really a low level braking system. If you get into a sway it's pretty hard to pull out of it. I once saw a little U-Hall single axle go into a sway. I remember the driver put on the brakes, and the last sway was pretty violent which slid the car off the road with the trailer and car staying upright. I've never seen an auto dolly sway though. Are you getting a dolly or the flat trailer where all 4 wheels on the trailer? On the latter I've always seen the cars facing forward. This keeps the weight on the hitch. Hopefully the trailer and tow vehicle stay level. I have no idea what kind of hitch weight is present.

Jack
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