Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-02-2015, 11:31 AM   #85
Moderator
 
jcanavera's Avatar

 
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton , Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,002
Images: 143
Send a message via AIM to jcanavera Send a message via Skype™ to jcanavera
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandolindave View Post
Not being skeptical ….just don't know

Why don't the brake controllers apply brakes at the same time? Poor design or is it something I am missing
The reason is that many brake controllers are inertial. Which means there is a detector that uses a sensor to detect the inertial change as the tow vehicle starts to slow down. You know how you feel your body move forward as you apply the brakes? So the process is you step on the brake pedal. The controller applies a basic amount of voltage to the trailer brakes. As you step harder on the tow vehicle brakes, the inertial detector senses the lean and increases the voltage back to the trailer brakes. So essentially there is a delay as you notice.

After using this type of system for years, I ran across a brake controller that today is no longer being made. It was a Jordon 2020. It uses a cable that connects from the controller to the tow vehicle brake pedal. When you step on the brake the cable senses the distance that the cable travels, thus almost instantly providing the proper amount of voltage and braking by the trailer. No delay, no ramp up requiring inertia detection. The harder you step on the brake pedal, the more the cable travels, thus more power to the trailer brakes. I've had mine for 11 years and will hate the day it needs to be replaced.

The other thing is the fact that inertial controllers need to be set up properly. If you don't have them adjusted correctly to provide enough voltage, your braking will be ineffective and the trailer will be pushing the tow vehicle.

Jack
__________________

__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500,'14 Honda CTX 700
jcanavera is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 11:41 AM   #86
4 Rivet Member
 
Zigidachs's Avatar
 
2011 30' Classic
Ridgefield , Washington
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 297
Images: 1
Sad tales ....hope no one was seriously injured.

Solutions:
1) Diesel with exhaust braking-especially for the down grades;
2) 3/4 ton truck--for stability, power, carrying capacity
3) Anti-sway / WD hitch ( e.g. ProPride)
4) TMS: tire pressure monitoring system to warn of under inflated or over heated tires;
5) Driver awareness....SLOW! ( speed is not our "friend" when towing. )

The shorter the trailer, the more likely one will encounter sway--potentially violent. Think of a simple analogy: a short switch oscillates more quickly than a longer switch. ( Airstream Mag...circa:2011)
__________________

__________________
Zigidachs is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 12:04 PM   #87
Rivet Master
 
m.hony's Avatar
 
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,828
Mildly agree...
Mildly disagree...
Towing with the Tundra seems effortless. Handling seems sure.
But...
We ain't got no mountains around here.
What part did speed, trailer brake adjustment, and proper weight distributing/sway control have to do with those 2 rollovers?
The largest hills I have towed with my Tundra are in Kentucky and Tennessee. They ain't got nothin' that scared me, but it ain't the Rockies or the Tetons, either.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
m.hony is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 12:43 PM   #88
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
K.C. , Missouri
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera View Post
The reason is that many brake controllers are inertial. Which means there is a detector that uses a sensor to detect the inertial change as the tow vehicle starts to slow down. You know how you feel your body move forward as you apply the brakes? So the process is you step on the brake pedal. The controller applies a basic amount of voltage to the trailer brakes. As you step harder on the tow vehicle brakes, the inertial detector senses the lean and increases the voltage back to the trailer brakes. So essentially there is a delay as you notice.

After using this type of system for years, I ran across a brake controller that today is no longer being made. It was a Jordon 2020. It uses a cable that connects from the controller to the tow vehicle brake pedal. When you step on the brake the cable senses the distance that the cable travels, thus almost instantly providing the proper amount of voltage and braking by the trailer. No delay, no ramp up requiring inertia detection. The harder you step on the brake pedal, the more the cable travels, thus more power to the trailer brakes. I've had mine for 11 years and will hate the day it needs to be replaced.

The other thing is the fact that inertial controllers need to be set up properly. If you don't have them adjusted correctly to provide enough voltage, your braking will be ineffective and the trailer will be pushing the tow vehicle.

Jack
Prodigy P2 and P3 have what is called "boost" options. You can set them easily for different levels of initial boost. As soon as you touch the brake pedal, actually as soon as the brake lights come on, the controller sends power to the trailer brakes. By setting the boost to a higher level, you can effectively make the trailer brakes come on slightly before the truck brakes. I have a P2 in my Nissan. It works well. Some folks don't like the initial grab though, because you can feel it, they may have the impression something is not right. For those folks, simply pressing the button on the controller will disable the feature.
__________________
gmw photos is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 12:45 PM   #89
3 Rivet Member
 
Wolf Alaska's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Madison , Alabama
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 154
Images: 7
Trailer crash in Montana

I had a better message but it disappeared when I tried to attach these photos.

This crash involved a Ford Excursion TV and a SOB trailer.

I don't know what caused this crash. I stopped to lend assistance along with other motorists, as EMTs and Highway Patrol weren't on scene. The accident victims weren't in any shape to discuss the situation.

This crash is very disturbing to me, due to its seriousness and lack of obvious reason as to why it happened. I use a Ford Excursion as a TV and until I saw this crash, thought of the Excursion as a safe TV. Now I know that the Ford Excursion can be rolled like any other vehicle towing a trailer. The crashed Excursion at least seemed to maintain its structural integrity which is the only good thing I could see going on in this crash. The A pillar was pushed down a bit, but there was still some headroom for the front seats.

Let's Roll !
Wolf
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-07-04 2012-07-04 001 030.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	108.5 KB
ID:	242074   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-07-04 2012-07-04 001 031.jpg
Views:	163
Size:	115.3 KB
ID:	242075  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-07-04 2012-07-04 001 032.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	228.2 KB
ID:	242076   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-07-04 2012-07-04 001 033.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	189.2 KB
ID:	242077  

__________________
Wolf Alaska
M.S./CFI/IR/ME/CP
FMCA SKP GS GPAA NRA USN (Ret)
Wolf Alaska is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 12:55 PM   #90
Rivet Master
 
Larry C's Avatar
 
1996 34' Excella
Elberta , Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
For whatever it's worth from this old man is that probably 90% of this sort of accident is caused by:

1) Either no sway control, or improperly adjusted hitch, or both, this also includes the PP and Hensley hitches.

2) Too much speed.

3) Lack of experience, or unwilling to learn.

4) Too much trailer for too little vehicle.

5) It could also be a combination of all the above...

Larry
__________________
Old age is coming at a really bad time!

1996 34' Excella 1000, interior totally redone, 2003 Dodge/Cummins HO, U.S. Gear exhaust brake, Diablo tuner, 115 gallon aux fuel, Bedslide, Airsafe/Reese Dual Cam, and a bunch of other stuff
Larry C is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:08 PM   #91
2 Rivet Member
 
2015 Interstate Ext. Coach
Tigard , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 23
Airstream Salesmen

Airstream salesman need to read this article. When we were looking for our AS we were driving a VW 6 cyl gas Touareg SUV. The salesman said we would have no trouble towing a 23 ft AS. When I doubted that statement based on towing specs for our vehicle, the salesman said we have people all the time driving them out with rigs just like yours. Obviously we didn't buy our AS from that salesperson, but for all the fun of being an owner, safety is obviously, first.
__________________
"The more you think you know...........The more close minded you will be"
Oldforester is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:17 PM   #92
2 Rivet Member
 
2004 25' Safari
1968 17' Caravel
Fountain Valley , California
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 86
About 4 years ago I experienced a similar incident in that I was pulling a 27' AS with a 1/2 ton Silverado (I had bought the Silverado when I only had a 17' AS). Coming down a 6% grade I experienced the situation mentioned in the lead post, i.e. rolling the AS. The only difference was that I was blessed and did not roll the truck (the AS did roll and ripped the rear factory hitch assembly from the truck, but the truck did not roll. I did get an E-ticket ride though).
Knowing that the 27-footer was a hefty load, and also that I only use the truck for towing the trailer, so low mileage on the truck (normally just drive a sedan when not towing), I went to a smaller 25' AS.
The 25-footer AS is much better for towing, but I subsequently made a MAJOR towing improvement that doesn't seem to be mentioned much.
I swapped out my Michelin tires that were the largest recommended for my 1/2 ton truck with tires used for the 3/4 & 1-ton trucks. I replaced them with Michelin LTX M/S 2, ALL SEASON, LT265/70R17 LRE ORWL, MSPN 97723, 70,000 mile warranty tires. These new tires are rated for 80 psi max as opposed to the previous tires 44 psi max. The more rigid sidewalls really improved the handling of the truck because the more rigid sidewalls decreased any sway tendencies (and yes I had and have anti-sway devices on both Airstreams.)
I strongly recommend to any folks driving 1/2 ton trucks for towing that the next time they replace their tires they go to higher pressure tires. (I would also recommend that when you make your original truck purchase you give consideration to a 3/4 ton vs a 1/2 ton to allow for possible future acquisitions.) (I do still have the 17-foot AS too.)
__________________
WindyJim is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:27 PM   #93
gpt
4 Rivet Member
 
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
sequim , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 296
part of my purchase deal for the 2 Tundra's i owned was a swap out of the 'P' rated tires for 'LT' tires, tires any truck should automatically come with. just underscored the notion that Toyota is more interested in an SUV ride with the Tundra vs a serious tow vehicle. how about those mirrors???
__________________
gpt is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:36 PM   #94
Rivet Master
 
Alumaholic's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
Albuquerque , New Mexico
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,751
Images: 33
Thanks to hshovick for his original post.
As someone who has worn out three 1/2 ton Chevy Suburbans and two 2500HD Chevy Duramax pickups towing Airstreams (and other trailers) it's always good to be reminded that any owner error in selecting and operating his rig (trailer and tow vehicle combination) can result in a few seconds of white knuckle excitement followed by hours of speculation.
__________________
Ken L
1966 Tradewind 24
2007Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax/Allison
Four Corners Unit WBCCI #8654
Alumaholic is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:37 PM   #95
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Alaska View Post
I had a better message but it disappeared when I tried to attach these photos.

This crash involved a Ford Excursion TV and a SOB trailer.

I don't know what caused this crash. I stopped to lend assistance along with other motorists, as EMTs and Highway Patrol weren't on scene. The accident victims weren't in any shape to discuss the situation.

This crash is very disturbing to me, due to its seriousness and lack of obvious reason as to why it happened. I use a Ford Excursion as a TV and until I saw this crash, thought of the Excursion as a safe TV. Now I know that the Ford Excursion can be rolled like any other vehicle towing a trailer. The crashed Excursion at least seemed to maintain its structural integrity which is the only good thing I could see going on in this crash. The A pillar was pushed down a bit, but there was still some headroom for the front seats.

Let's Roll !
Wolf
And the Ford Excursion is a 3/4 ton vehicle (with a 1 ton variant), thought that was impossible. The length, width, track and wheelbase are the same as the standard cab 8 feet bed Styleside pickup models and has similar maneuverability. It is essentially a F250 modified into a SUV. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Excursion)


Any vehicle, including F250's can and will roll under the right circumstances. Some more easily than others.
__________________
Family of 4 living, working & exploring the USA in our Airstream.
OUR BLOG | FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:38 PM   #96
bhooves
 
2013 27' Flying Cloud
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 17
rvdrivingschool.com

I highly recommend the RV Driving School. Your learn so much: about your tow vehicle, how to back up in a straight line, and mountain towing. It is worth every penny.
__________________
bhooves is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:49 PM   #97
Life long Airstreamer
 
korgen's Avatar
 
1966 24' Tradewind
Wilsonville , Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 18
I tow our 66 Tradewind with an F150 equipped with the max tow package and a load leveling system with no problems. It's rated to tow over 11k and my trailer is about 4k. I agree with others that inexperience can be a big contributor to these accidents. I've witnessed this type of accident when the trailer starts swaying and the driver looses control. Instead of applying just the trailer brakes which helps stop the sway and then the vehicle brakes once it is in control, they will apply the vehicle brakes first which magnifies the problem especially when going down hill. Too fast a speed down hill can also exacerbate the situation.

I recommend that anyone without much towing experience take a training course. It teaches you to think about what you would do in different situations and be prepared for them. Just my 2 cents.

Brian
__________________
korgen is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:58 PM   #98
2 Rivet Member
 
2004 25' Safari
1968 17' Caravel
Fountain Valley , California
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 86
Relative to my earlier response, I think the tires alone (80 psi max versus 44 psi max) could have made the difference between accident and no accident.
__________________

__________________
WindyJim is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just saw two Airstream motorhomes inside of two minutes tevake Classic Motorhomes 8 10-31-2014 01:30 AM
"Alice" Month Two on the polish. zagarino Cleaning, Stripping & Polishing 3 05-08-2012 09:13 AM
Two 12V vs. two six volt batteries spat61 Land Yacht/Legacy Motorhomes 37 04-23-2010 12:50 AM
Two plus two cello The Pet Forum 1 09-26-2006 03:00 PM
Two 6 volts or Two 12V series 27 LI Pets Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 0 09-07-2006 07:06 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.