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Old 07-02-2015, 07:49 AM   #71
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Basically no one here has a clue as to the cause of these two accidents. Any comments or statement as to cause or what would prevent these incidents are based on incomplete information. To continue to say that having particular piece of equipment (TV, hitch, tires, etc) would prevent a repeat is frankly ludicrous.
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:51 AM   #72
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Lots of speculation here from the beginning.
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:52 AM   #73
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It takes someone with talent to roll over anything other than a cement truck that goes around a curve too fast with a full load. I have driven pickups all my life and the Excursion is much more stable since it has better front to back weight distribution. There is nothing more unstable than an empty pickup truck. When it snowed this winter 90% of what was on the side of the road where pickup trucks running empty. When the weather is bad I drive the Excursion. My Ranger is scary just driving in the rain.

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Old 07-02-2015, 08:02 AM   #74
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No mention of any accidents involving a travel trailer going back 2 months. June 2015 Archived Traffic Incident in Bozeman, MT
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:33 AM   #75
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Here's my view, we can talk about all different size TV but the bottom line is SPEED if you go down a curvy hill at 80mph any TV is going to flip if you go 20mph none of this would have happened.
Slow down enjoy the journey the destination will be there when you arrive.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:34 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
"It takes someone with talent to roll over anything other than a cement truck that goes around a curve too fast with a full load...." "...There is nothing more unstable than an empty pickup truck.

Perry
These statements seem to conflict.

I completely disagree with the first one. It takes no talent what-so-ever. The only thing less stable than an empty pickup is a full one. In truck driver school, they taught us that "heavy and/or high" is bad, and the more you have of either, the less stable the vehicle will be (and also, longer time/distance to stop.).

The report in the IP stated that one of the vehicles was an older Explorer--these were particularly unstable. Remember the Firestone tire debacle from a few years back? It was a particularly bad situation because when you get a blow-out in one of these vehicles, the result is often catastrophic...practically guaranteed to roll over at highway speed. If it was happening in your typical sedans, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:36 AM   #77
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I'm thinking I just won't drive anymore roads with down hill sections. I will only drive on level roads or uphill. No more going downhill for me!😂
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:11 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
Basically no one here has a clue as to the cause of these two accidents. Any comments or statement as to cause or what would prevent these incidents are based on incomplete information. To continue to say that having particular piece of equipment (TV, hitch, tires, etc) would prevent a repeat is frankly ludicrous.
Thank you!
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:14 AM   #79
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Been trying to stay out of this one because we all know where these type of threads end, but my opinion is the key to safe towing, or even safe driving in general, is appropriate speed for the road conditions you have with the vehicle you are driving.

Now the tricky part...it takes experience to learn that speed for the vehicle, or combination you are in, and the conditions you are in.

Who was it that said you learn to make good decisions from first making bad decisions?
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:33 AM   #80
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Slow mover, your comments in post 67 are spot on. Every uneasy tow that I've had was a downhill stretch. You described exactly what I experienced! Any other disturbance in the force while the TV brakes are applied going downhill is amplified. Exhaust brakes only work on the tow vehicle, manually operating the brake controller at the same time when necessary can help. Another thing that can cause instability is downshifting going down hill. Only the TV downshifts, the trailer continues on its merry way.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:35 AM   #81
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More info from the incidents.

I am happy to say there was so much interest in these two events.

We all got our opinions!

A couple of clarifications:

I was surprised at these incidents. It is a usually calm part of our
District. The grade here is less than 5%. The road is straight. Most accidents occur in the curvey portion of the Interstate closer to Bozeman.

I was not suggesting heavier vehicles make them safer. I was suggesting towing within vehicle capacity may be safer than towing on the edge or over true vehicle capacity. For those who want to read about capacity calculations, see my post of 2007, when I started streaming.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...tml#post456088
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:37 AM   #82
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I recently purchased a "77 Sovereign that appears to be well maintained by the PO.

Other than driving it to the storage lot, and then out to the campsite this week, I've never towed as large of a trailer in the civilian world.

Keeping the weight of the tow vehicle, tires inflated/inspected at stops/refuelings, and proper balance of what's packed inside both trailer and tow vehicle is important.

Training of the tow vehicle operator/assistant operator is paramount in safe towing of any trailer... and the ability to react safety to road hazards/blow-outs.

During the Firestone recall and all the SUV rollovers, I had a blow out on my fullsize Bronco. Never had a problem with control of the Bronco following the blow out, and the Bronco was packet to the gills. Remembering previous training/stories all I did was let it slow down by itself, pulled over into the median, and proceeded to change out the tire after stopping.

You can always add weight to the tow vehicle, but not over load it's GVW and expect better handing over an overloaded trailer.

This is my opinion of hauling trailers while in the service. Only once had blow out, and it was a retread on the steering wheel (I wasn't the driver, just went out to recover it from the supply sergeant).

Proper tire inflation, training on the charactists of the trailer, and loading should always be on the operator's mind - even on a short trip that includes changes in elevation and direction of roads.

Thanks for your post.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:38 AM   #83
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Thumbs down This Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpt View Post
folks like to rationalize their irrational choices



Quote:
Originally Posted by gpt View Post
but its still a free country so you can play games all you want with your life and the safety of your family. just make sure you don't end up killing some innocent folks because of the games you want to play.
We've summed up this whole thread right here.

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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
A grade descent is the most dangerous piece of road for a combined vehicle.

The trailer is always trying to pass the tow vehicle. It is traveling faster.

Tow vehicle braking (as with an exhaust brake) WITHOUT stronger application of the trailer brakes sets up the rig for loss of control.

The lash up now has slack in it.

Add strong wind gusts, or a close passing semi, and one has a prescription for disaster.

TT and TV design still trumps weight and size for given vehicles as regards resistance to roll over. To say otherwise is foolish.

Proper speed in the proper gear and TT brakes leading in application force is the prescription. Learn to use the brake control override.

To a lesser extent the same phenomenon exists in exiting an Interstate and is UNIVERSALLY ignored by RVers: the posted exit speed is to reduce that rolling force to a minimum needed to re-accelerate onto the service road.

Put the tension back into the lash-up.
This is sound solid advice. I've been down various grades already, low gear and the trailer brake. I have no problem driving the next X miles at 35mph. Don't let it build up speed. Just because a car can go down an 8% grade at 55mph doesn't mean your Airstream should.

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Way back in 2009, I posted an example on Air Forums of why even a Tundra is inadequate (as are all 1/2 ton
vehicles for the deceptively easy to tow (but still heavy) Airstreams).
Its almost as if everything will feel fine, until it doesn't.


I tow my 25' with a 3/4 ton. That puts it in the midrange of gross vehicle weight rating, not at the top. Over 70,000 miles the trailer has never tried to drive my vehicle (at least not yet).
There was a problem with this thread from the get go. The OP gives two vehicles that are not rated 1/2 tons as examples for why ALL 1/2 tons are inadequate tow vehicles. Then supports this with opinion in his final statement.


Here's my fallacy closing argument.

The people I see towing the most recklessly regularly are 3/4 ton owners who are over confident in their big trucks while doing 90mph on the highway.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:24 AM   #84
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Let's just pause for a 10-second station identification, and a friendly mod-reminder to BE NICE. Continue to disagree, as long as we do so agreeably.

================================================== =

I do agree, though, that the 3/4 ton school can create a bigger, more dangerous false sense of security. We've all seen plenty of 3/4 tons laying on their roofs, too.
I have to say, too...most Class c rigs (NOT Airstreams, of course ) I see on the road are not hitched correctly, and you can spot 'em a mile away. TV or trailer or both are not even close to level...when you get up close, you can see that there is 0 degrees of tilt on the ball, etc, etc.
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