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Old 07-11-2015, 03:23 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by JCWDCW View Post
I kind of gave up on this thread...too much vitriol. But while "walking" downtown today, I got to thinking about the whole tow vehicle size thing and it occurs to me that there are probably a lot more Semi-trailer rollovers than RV rollovers. So if the vehicle size is the be all to end all why are there so many Peterbuilt, Volvos and Internationals with all the HP and long wheelbase and air brakes ( with special license) of a cross continent tractor involved in crazy rollovers that usually result in someone dying .

Maybe just the driver and road conditions.....Huh!

JCW
Always remember:
If the world gives you vitriol, make vitriolade.

A story that will probably prove nothing:

One day I had to drive Interstate 80 between Salt Lake City and Cheyenne. There was a very strong south wind. There were at least a Dozen (I stopped counting) semi's on their sides on the westbound shoulder. The strangest part was that every one was a Volvo tractor. I pondered that and came up with following perhaps erroneous idea. If I am correct, the Volvos are supposedly more fuel efficient. I assume that means they are lighter. I wonder if that explains them being the only ones I saw on their side, or if it was pure coincidence.

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Old 07-11-2015, 03:44 PM   #380
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Great story Ken. And it does prove something... It's possible to speculate on anything and to connect all kinds of dots.

Cheers,
John

P.S. My conclusion from your story is that it's pretty obvious what happened. Volvos are engineered in Sweden for Swedish wind and are obviously not able to handle Wyoming wind. Pretty, pretty obvious.
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Old 07-11-2015, 03:45 PM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCWDCW View Post
I kind of gave up on this thread...too much vitriol. But while "walking" downtown today, I got to thinking about the whole tow vehicle size thing and it occurs to me that there are probably a lot more Semi-trailer rollovers than RV rollovers. So if the vehicle size is the be all to end all why are there so many Peterbuilt, Volvos and Internationals with all the HP and long wheelbase and air brakes ( with special license) of a cross continent tractor involved in crazy rollovers that usually result in someone dying .

Maybe just the driver and road conditions.....Huh!

JCW
Uh, maybe because there are probably 50 times as many 18 wheelers on the highway as there are RV's?
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Old 07-11-2015, 03:53 PM   #382
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Volvo' s have a soft and mushy ride and the reason you see so many, in my opinion , is they are cheap, compared to a kenworth, Steve where is your Honda?
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:07 PM   #383
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Honda? Are you speaking to a different Steve?
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:51 PM   #384
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I can't believe this thread is still going on... and now there's arguing over Hondas and Volvos?!
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:56 PM   #385
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I can't believe this thread is still going on... and now there's arguing over Hondas and Volvos?!
In my opinion it's better than starting a new thread for every time this one wanders.

Ken
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Old 07-12-2015, 03:15 AM   #386
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Twenty-eight pages and nearly 400 posts in response to some sketchy information regarding a couple of roll overs, and some scarily over the top speculation just to keep it interesting - Air Forums never fails to satisfy!

Regarding the OP's original posts, there's simply not enough information to draw any meaningful conclusions so we shouldn't even try.

To those who have tried and condemned anything less than a three-quarter ton truck, please refrain from future criticism until you've either towed an Airstream with a smaller TV or you have some verifiable evidence that accidents (and any subsequent legal disasters) have occurred.

I'm always bemused when so many of my fellow Airstreamers can dismiss not only the expert and professional opinion of Andy Thompson (over 45 years in the business and with a legion of satisfied customers), but write off those people who are actively using smaller and well set up TVs without incident, and have been for years. I wonder what it is that you know that the others don't.

Ultimately, it's a bit like the topical same-sex marriage debate. If you don't approve of smaller TVs towing Airstreams then don't use one and stick to your one ton dually - people using smaller TVs simply don't affect your ability to tow. If you think, of course, that you are going to get brushed off the road by an out-of-control Airstream tumbling down a mountain pass with a minivan still attached then I suggest that you do your research to find out just how many people are wiped out by an accident involving a small TV being overcome by an Airstream. Such incidents are, I think, a rarity and will be considerably rarer than accidents where a larger truck has been overcome by an Airstream.

I'm sure that users of smaller TVs are well aware of the limitations of their vehicles, but I'm also sure that they wouldn't venture onto the road if they thought that they were a real danger to themselves or other people. But remember, folks, just because their reasoning doesn't accord with yours, it doesn't mean that they are automatically wrong; they have real evidence to support their decision to go small, but do the detractors have any actual evidence that they are wrong? I don't think so.
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Old 07-12-2015, 03:59 AM   #387
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The reasoning for larger vehicles which can safely handle more cargo capacity is in answer to those who aren't smart enough to stay within the weight limitations of smaller vehicles.

A larger vehicle with greater capacity for towing weight, which is not overloaded when carrying John Doe's XXXX lbs of cargo requirement is indeed safer than a smaller vehicle that is loaded beyond its capacity when carrying the same weight.

That is the primary point of those recommending a 1/2 ton truck over a midsize SUV, or a 3/4 ton truck over a 1/2 ton truck. No point in getting defensive if a vehicle with greater capacity is a better choice for a particular load.

People simply need to choose a tow vehicle that is truly up to dealing with the particular job at hand, whatever that job may be, which varies greatly from one Airstreamer to another. Don't get your panties in a wad over what someone else tows with, providing it does the job safely.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:50 AM   #388
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But the bottom line is no matter the size if the tow vehicle, road conditions and driver error or non attention to those conditions will lead to these loss of control accidents. It's something that we all need to continue to work at. You just can't step on the gas and look at the scenery, and ignore the wind, grade, and curves in the road. If you do, then you will pay the price. No hitch or tow vehicle can protect against driver inattention. Yes, there are factors but I'd take my chances with a driver paying attention as they tow, vs the one who feels they are invincible due to their "superior" towing set up.

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Old 07-12-2015, 08:11 AM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
Twenty-eight pages and nearly 400 posts in response to some sketchy information regarding a couple of roll overs, and some scarily over the top speculation just to keep it interesting - Air Forums never fails to satisfy!

Regarding the OP's original posts, there's simply not enough but do the detractors have any actual evidence that they are wrong? I don't think so.
Well said!
I hang out on a few tractor forums and see this kind of thing occur there too.
I call it the myth phenomenon.
Some guy asks the question; is it important to use stabilizer bars on my 3 point hitch?
Someone answers; "it won't hurt to use them".
which becomes; " I like using them on my tractor", which becomes, "for some things they make it safer" then, "it's important to use them at all times" and finally, "yes, you must use them at all times or you will surely Die and your children will be homeless and scattered like leaves
on the stormy sea."
New people, armed with some knowledge from reading the forums repeat the most dire warnings until the myth becomes gospel and stabilizer bars become de rigeur.
Of course not having been around tractors long they are unaware that stabilizer bars - though they've been around a long time - the use of them is fairly modern. And they don't realize that millions of farmers put billions of hours on tractors without them.
And thus, myths are born and perpetuated - a lot of them by newbies (who happen to fear and worry a lot.)
And myths as you know are like dragons; they are very hard to slay.
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:34 AM   #390
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Towing.....downhills

This thread has a lot of opinions in a short time...so, mine. I just returned from 3860 miles of towing my Serenity 30 RB with my Dodge. Weights across scales are in the range of 7300 lbs trailer, 4300/4400 truck front/rear.

On long downhill runs, using the exhaust brake of the truck, this is an area of most risk, IMO. As I understand it, the primary braking is the rear wheels of the TV, the trailer brakes being much less involved than if the footbrake is applied and the Tekonsha Prodigy P3 Trailer Brake Controller energized. I believe on long downhills, the braking action is reduced for the trailer to avoid overheating the trailer's brakes.

This is when the set up is the most risky IMO. And if one allows speeds to get above 65 - 70 mph, a loss of control and potential accident is much more of a risk. I can feel when the trailer seems to be driving the TV and will reduce speed immediately when this occurs.

An inexperienced operator may not be able to recognize situations which IMO require reduced speed and immediate attention. If a TV is marginal, weight being the factor, a heavy TT can easily create a disaster in long downhill scenarios...the last example I can think about is I-77 Southbound from Fancy Gap, Virginia.

So, in all situations, the use of extreme caution is IMO always better than an accident.
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:32 AM   #391
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"An inexperienced operator may not be able to recognize situations which IMO require reduced speed and immediate attention. If a TV is marginal, weight being the factor, a heavy TT can easily create a disaster in long downhill scenarios...the last example I can think about is I-77 Southbound from Fancy Gap, Virginia."

That is a great example of a grade that requires a really decent attention span. My Airstream weight is the same as yours but I have 1000 lbs less on each Jeep axel. Caution is mandatory. I use the transmission and periodic manual Airstream brake application in order to not exceed about 50 mph. I am usually the the slowest dude on the hill. Not so on the return when the speed is the same going up and I get to pass the odd big truck. I have also found that it is prudent to follow the cautionary "do not exceed x mph" on decreasing radius freeway entry lanes. Bottom line, "why add to the stress of an enjoyable adventure?" Jim



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Old 07-12-2015, 11:43 AM   #392
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In the end, it is a drivers responsibility to know the limitations of his vehicle and to drive accordingly.
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