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Old 07-10-2015, 10:49 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by markdoane View Post
If humid air were denser than dry air, wouldn't all the clouds fall out of the sky?

Isn't that called rain?


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Old 07-10-2015, 11:08 AM   #338
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Rain is when the moisture in the air condenses from gas to a liquid and becomes heavier than air and falls.

#JustSayin...

And,,,, a big part of this thread was already inflammatory when a mob decides that anyone towing with a vehicle smaller than theirs is "reckless", and by extension if these people disagree with this conclusion, they are stupid, ignorant, or liars.

Like I said before, there is one guy who is thinking that a 1/2 ton is insufficient for towing his Bambi..

Lol. Persuasive arguments don't make an argument correct.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:12 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by markdoane View Post
If humid air were denser than dry air, wouldn't all the clouds fall out of the sky?
Nope. Gravity causes air at lower elevations to be more dense than at higher elevations, so the air +humidity (clouds) at a certain elevation are less dense than air below. (much simplified version of the actual dynamics)
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:14 AM   #340
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are you guys troll-jacking this thread, or am I completely missing something?
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:19 AM   #341
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Trolling - no. Jacking - yes. It needs a new direction.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:23 AM   #342
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Now that is the question.

What if I claim to be an expert tower with over 30 years of experience and hundreds of thousands of miles towing trailers of all sizes, and I say that my 31 foot Airstream tows behind my 1/2 ton truck safe and stable, rock solid?

Am I being "reckless" for not getting a bigger truck?

Are ALL Airstream owners "reckless" for not getting an intrinsically more stable 5th wheel trailer and a Kodiak or F-650 to pull it?

If so by who's say so?

My experience says that I know what a good combination feels like and how it performs, so if what I say about the manners of my combination is not true, then I must be a liar.

Can you see where the feathers of 1/2 ton towers get ruffled by certain claims in these discussions?
I'm picking up what you're laying down, and I ain't callin you a liar...

But, I'm going to go back to my earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by boondockdad View Post
When you're dealing with complicated vehicle dynamics
us non-engineer types have to start somewhere:
vehicle ratings
I think all other things being equal (operator skill, road, traffic, weather, etc), it starts with this:
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:33 AM   #343
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Where is the GCWR on that tag?

How much weight will an Airstream equipped with WD put on a truck?

Enough that a 1/2 ton is insufficient?

Even with a fair amount of stuff in the box?

The rear axle of my 1/2 ton only weighs about 3,000 pounds with my trailer attached, (and loaded with the stuff I carry) and not to mention how much less my truck weighs than a 1 ton diesel...
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:38 AM   #344
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Nope. Gravity causes air at lower elevations to be more dense than at higher elevations, so the air +humidity (clouds) at a certain elevation are less dense than air below. (much simplified version of the actual dynamics)

I'm not sure how much of this discussion is serious, so forgive me if I get sucked in. A cloud is not part of the air. (It is part of the atmosphere though.) Air is a collection of gases. A cloud is very small particles of condensed (liquid) water suspended in the air. Gaseous water (water vapor) is invisible.

There ia a possibility I guess (not likely though, that all of this has changed in the 50 years since I received my degree in Atmospheric Sciences.

It is still a fact though that humid air is less dense than dry air.

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_is_water_vapor.htm

Ken

P.S. on the Obscure (foggy) chance that this post is total uneducated BS, it will have plenty of company in this thread.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:42 AM   #345
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I'm not sure how much of this discussion is serious, so forgive me if I get sucked in. A cloud is not part of the air. (It is part of the atmosphere though.) Air is a collection of gases. A cloud is very small particles of condensed (liquid) water suspended in the air. Gaseous water (water vapor) is invisible.

There ia a possibility I guess (not likely though, that all of this has changed in the 50 years since I received my degree in Atmospheric Sciences.

It is still a fact though that humid air is less dense than dry air.

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_is_water_vapor.htm

Ken
Agreed, I did put my "highly simplified" disclaimer in for a reason....
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:45 AM   #346
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Can-Am Rv as a resource for improved Airstream towing.

Andrew Thomson at Can-Am has set up three thousand (3,000!!!) front-drive vans and some folks are still telling us why it can't be done. Or shouldn't. Or mechanical failure. Or liability (never substantiated). Or . . .

I understand why it doesn't make sense to us, like when the world was believed to be flat. Hard to get your head around it when you've been told something opposite for so long.

This is not to say we all should be using front drive vans. Andy offers much more than that. Can-Am has advised us in setting up two pickups. Little tweaks that make a big difference. If and when we upgrade to a European style diesel SUV he will help us again. He has tested and improved the towing of heavy duty pickups.

This second-generation Airstream dealer has been in business 45 years and he has learned some things, and graciously and generously has offered that experience and knowledge to us. He gives seminars, writes articles in many publications, and offers help here on the forum.

We can learn some things that apply directly to the many issues brought up in this thread discussion. Many will refuse and that's human nature. The rest will benefit.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:51 AM   #347
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But hey, just because they have decades of experience, well this does not mean they are not idiots....

<really thick sarcasm>
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:54 AM   #348
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It bugs me to no end when folks insist that something that is successfully done cant be done, as if they know better than the people who do things.
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Old 07-10-2015, 12:36 PM   #349
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It bugs me to no end when folks insist that something that is successfully done cant be done, as if they know better than the people who do things.
There are a huge number of people, (including many in positions of power) in the world today who believe that what is good for them is good and necessary for everyone. It is not isolated to towing or even travel trailers in general. It is found in every field and endeavor that humans are involved in. I am not old enough to know for sure, but I imagine it has been around since cave men. Sometimes it is driven by the desire for power and wealth. Sometimes it is driven by insecurity and the need for affirmation in their beliefs. Sometimes it is a fear of learning and trying something new. There are other reasons that I have yet to make up.

If one is not confident in the own beliefs, it is necessary that everyone else's beliefs be the same as theirs. If one is confident in their own beliefs, they are likely to want to share them with others, but without the necessity to tell others that their beliefs are wrong.

The preceding analysis is made by me and me alone. I am totally unqualified to make any such analysis. It is food for thought, but be sure to eat something healthy along with it.

Ken
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Old 07-10-2015, 12:50 PM   #350
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I will be continually baffled by a dealer that advocates the use of a passenger car over vehicle designed to tow. No matter how you spruce it up, it's still a purse made from a sow's ear. It's one thing to add an air bag to a pickup truck, an extra tranny cooler or the like, but to take a regular passenger car and add a 2" hitch plus using mathematics X+Y=Z, and call it a valid tow rig is beyond laughable.
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