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Old 07-01-2015, 02:23 PM   #21
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Two things I preach. A tow vehicle, trailer, and hitch set up as close to perfect as can be. And a driver with at least a limited amount of training and or experience towing. Another thing, PAYATTENTION when towing.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:44 PM   #22
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Thanks for posting this.

You mention both of these roll-overs took place on the downhill grade coming off the Bozeman Pass - I'd be interested in knowing what the actual downhill grade was and if speeding was a factor - is it a common spot for other accidents as well?


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Old 07-01-2015, 02:44 PM   #23
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would like to know more

Not being skeptical ….just don't know

How does overloading the rear of the tow vehicle adversely effect safety?


Avionstream had a point about going to fast then hitting the brakes too hard.I am thinking that most brake controllers hesitate before applying brakes to the trailer. The TV is stopping but the trailer wants to keep going, thus the trailer pushes the trailer …especially bad on a curve


Why don't the brake controllers apply brakes at the same time? Poor design or is it something I am missing
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:46 PM   #24
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I also have seen vehicles spun out and overturned in the center of a snow covered roadway. Many of them being current vehicles with full time 4x4. My theory is that of the " Full time 4x4 syndrom". I've been around, owned and driven 4x4 long before full time 4x4 was even an engineers dream. In those cases we would be driving around in 2wd until we felt slippage or saw enough snow accumulate to warrant manually engaging the 4x4. We know just what the driving conditions were and adjusted our equipment as needed. Now, jump ahead to today where so many have auto or full time 4x4. The operator never gets the feel for the road that tells them that slippery conditions are at hand and care must me taken. Nowadays we can go like *^@# but when it comes to stopping we are no better then anyone else. My point is we MUST be tuned in to the conditions at hand and adjust our driving as needed. I tow my 30' AS with a 3500 truck with 4x4. I have never had the feeling that the tail was gonna wag the dog. I'm comfortable with this ( a 2500 would work well also).
Drive safely and see ya'll on the road sometime.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:47 PM   #25
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They can be so adjusted.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:01 PM   #26
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:14 PM   #27
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I would love to know more about what happened in each of these accidents. How were they hitched, what the conditions were, how the driver's reacted?

Do you get called to a lot of Trailer incidents in that stretch of road?
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:15 PM   #28
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That is why I like the combination of our 1987 Avion 34W and our "old" "underpowered" 1995 Ford F-250 7.3L PowerStroke. The truck, ( extended cab with an 8' bed ) coupled with an experienced, careful, attentive driver make it a pleasure to handle. Even as-is, I would not attempt any mountain driving until I can get an exhaust brake added to the truck. I don't care how slow I might creep up the hills, but the down-hills are a very different story. Hopefully soon I can get the exhaust brake installed, then I can creep down even the steepest hills.

Thank you for posting the reports of those accidents.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:27 PM   #29
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Avionstream

My old brake controller had two adjustments. One timing and one intensity. I needed to fiddle and experiment depending on city and highway. Otherwise the brakes would grab big time around town. So I understand intensity

BUT why timing so the trailer brakes activate later? Same reason ???
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:49 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandolindave View Post
Not being skeptical ….just don't know

How does overloading the rear of the tow vehicle adversely effect safety?


Avionstream had a point about going to fast then hitting the brakes too hard.I am thinking that most brake controllers hesitate before applying brakes to the trailer. The TV is stopping but the trailer wants to keep going, thus the trailer pushes the trailer …especially bad on a curve


Why don't the brake controllers apply brakes at the same time? Poor design or is it something I am missing
Going over ragwr contributes to jack knifing once sway starts or a braking in corners. Even when wd is properly applied, the Mass is still there helping the whole rig swap ends. Most rollovers with trailers begin with a partial or full jack knife, in my observations.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandolindave View Post
Not being skeptical ….just don't know

How does overloading the rear of the tow vehicle adversely effect safety? . . . .
It is called vehicle dynamics. You get into situations where the suspension and steering doesn't work as designed/needed and you are in serious trouble.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:08 PM   #32
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I have noticed on this forum the tow vehicle can never be blamed for being a poor choice.Here are some statements taken from this forum.

A.Short wheelbase lightweight trucks,cars and minivans are perfect choices for pulling 23-31ft long Airstream travel trailers.

B.Just put a Hensley or PP hitch on it and it will cure any design flaws in the tow vehicle in fact it will overcome the laws of physics in a lot of cases.

C.Payload ratings do not really matter its just something made up by the manufacturer to sell bigger vehicles (conspiracy theory).

D.Tire quality is not relevant nor is the age of the tires on your travel trailer.They are all good just inflate them to max pressure or 10lbs more and you will be fine.

E.Accidents are always the fault of the driver and never his equipment.

F.Blowing a tire on a Airstream isn't really a safety concern.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by avionstream View Post
Down hill,too fast then hit the brakes too hard? Just a thought.

My thoughts exactly. Diesel has an engine brake and a trailer tow setting. Even with an F350 Diesel when I am going down hill I use both, in that way I can control my speed without using the brakes, unit does not get out of control and in an emergency I can use the brakes for a smooth straight stop. Have had to do it many times due to poor drivers but most often animals, large animals.

I did not buy the diesel for uphill pulling power, although I will say it's nice, I bought it for downhill control. Example - RT 30 going East from PA Turnpike to Chambersburg, 15 mile hills, at times 8 Degree incline, did it May 26th in light rain, never had to touch the brakes.

Enjoy
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:13 PM   #34
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In all the pictures, what did Wally tow with?
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:22 PM   #35
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How long was it and what did it weigh????

Post a picture of Wally's short wheelbase lightweight vehicle please.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:29 PM   #36
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(When I read the 1st post, I knew where this thread would go to, and here we are)
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:33 PM   #37
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Rarely disappointed here.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:40 PM   #38
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If drivers towing a trailer downhill, took the attention to the speed as they do going up... fewer accidents would happen in our mountainous roads of the Rockies.

A bit of sarcasm, but towing UP is easy.

The learning curve of controlling trailer and tow vehicle downhill is not forgiving. It is learned by experience. All trailer/tow vehicle accidents I have seen occurred in two situations.

1- Downhill on a curve about 25 miles east of Santa Fe, NM. Trailer and tow vehicle rolled into the median.

2- On level ground east of Flagstaff, AZ with a fresh 24 inch snow plowed with a popup trailer and vehicle in median. Popup trailer exploded while rolling, while the tow vehicle remained upright and occupants picking up loose items.

Each I would consider operator error. Both could have been avoided. Most likely speed in the first, and wanting to travel under poor conditions for the second.

Speed and Time need not be your first priority. Once you get to where you are going, then take your time and slowly.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:43 PM   #39
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Over Memorial Day we passed through Great Falls, Glacier National Park, Kalispell, Missoula, Bozeman and back home in the Tahoe, not pulling any trailer though. Beautiful countryside; sad to hear about the accidents, at least it was only property and not lives that were lost.

I'm new to AS, but not to towing.
I've been spending an inordinate amount of time reading active posts on this forum.

The look of the towing vehicle in the OP in this thread is concerning to say the least.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...on-119453.html

From his thread, it is a Honda Odyssey pulling a 34ft AS.


I've always had a touch of guilt driving a heavy full sized truck, but in a towing situation which always come up multiple times per year, I've never regretted it.

My Daily Driver and future 1971 Sovereign tow vehicle..
2005 F250 CCSB Camper special
1t rear springs, rear sway bar, factory trailer brake controller
This trailer is 30ft long, but the payload only weighs about 3200lbs fully loaded with gear and gas.

More pictures of it towing
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-130115-9.html

I am surprised that the Tahoe had an issue.
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2012 Tahoe LT
Comes with a bunch of features that make it 'better' for the average driver.
Traction Control
Electronic Stability Control
Trailer Brake Controller

And it is a reasonably vehicle, we've pulled the pontoon with it before.

From the Airstream History Page
History of Airstream | Airstream
Quote:
In 1931, Airstream began with Wally Byam’s dream: to build a travel trailer that would move like a stream of air, be light enough to be towed by a car, and create first-class accommodations anywhere.
But lets me fair here, it 1930 Cars and trucks were really only different in the amount of doors and interior space they had.

Also according to the History page, Wally passed in 1962 when cars were all still very large and heavy, very similar to their truck counter parts.

So I doubt you'd ever find a picture of him pulling an Airstream in anything small or light.

Check out this particular website..
Birth of Airstream & Wally Byam | Vogel Talks RVing
I saw it on the internet, it must be OK...


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Old 07-01-2015, 04:43 PM   #40
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Eric and chief I thought the same.

We humans are predictable. As mentioned here previously, maybe they were using a (insert brand name here) weight distribution versus a ( insert brand name here).

Overall when I read this post I thought, drive carefully, hitch appropriately, research your travel terrain, thank goodness they all survived, bad road closure, tow truck driver, insurance company and rental company. (Not necessarily in that order)

Actually I thought of Airstreams 2 Go and hoped it wasn't one of theirs because there are not to many rental companies of Airstream and with Tahoe.
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