Two Airstream rollovers in a month

[dznf0g]

Good question. Let's explore that!

[Zybane]

Way too many variables to say "ohh improper tow vehicle capability" did it.

[BoldAdventure]

Can anyone explain how Airstream2Go gets away allowing folks from an insurance stand point rent Airstreams that are 27 feet and towed with a Tahoe. Since we've established in this thread, this is a death trap.

[timhortons]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

Good point.
Why isn't the GCWR listed on that federally mandated label?

?

Just want to mention two things; first, if the TW on a 34' really is small enough not to exceed the GVWR, then wouldn't you be facing a potential catastrophic sway like Nick's scenario? Long, heavy trailer.. no TW.

Second, IMHO, I think a 1/2T pickup truck and a minivan are in two very different categories. I've driven both. Changing the brakes on our Dodge Caravan, the suspension components looked like a go-cart compared to the RAM1500. Not to mention chassis, drivetrain, tranny....
Personally, I think modern 1/2T pickups are more than adequate. I was stunned by the performance of my Dad's Ecoboost F-150 pulling our 30' S/O. Very well mannered.

Look, I'm not throwing any rocks.
Like I said before, I ain't no engineer...
just sayin' I'd love to see CAT slips and a door label for that minivan+34' setup

> Why isn't the GCWR listed on that federally mandated label?
because it's not federally mandated to be on the label

I can't speak to the suspension odds and ends on the grand caravan(which is the cheapest of the minivans commonly used to tow), but I think a minivan has better towing dynamics than a pickup truck by default.

Early automatic trannies on the minivans did have reliability problems, as did early mercedes MLs. You'll note that the manufacturerers have kept the bleeding edge DSGs and 9 speed autos out of the minivans because once they got the bugs ironed out it's not worth messing with on these lower volume vehicles.

SUVs and Pickup trucks are the cash cows, so they get all the latest toys to reliability test on the customers.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by timhortons

> Why isn't the GCWR listed on that federally mandated label?
because it's not federally mandated to be on the label

"I wish I had an answer to that because I'm tired of answering that question."
-Yogi Berra

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, 26 pages and 365 posts and all we got out of this is how it rains. We need the actual drivers of these roll overs to post what actually happened. There was an Airstream accident several years ago and the story didn't really make sense. About two years later the owner posted what really happened. The accident was caused by a driver with lack of abilities and lack of experience. The driver was passing a big rig, down hill, going too fast, with some wind, and on a right hand curve. Driver lost control. Most people won't tell the truth anymore and always try to blame someone, or something else, as to why they lost it.


So, bottom line; A Kenworth towing a Bambi with a Ha Ha hitch, with disc brakes, tire monitors, big wheels with Michelin tires, Etc Etc Etc. is not the answer.


I blame the driver first, the situation second, and the equipment last.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

Here is my guess. (not even an educated one)

There are so many variables (hitching systems and type of trailer primarily) that enter into towing, the specified weight would have to have many ifs and buts about it. It would need to be a worst case scenario number. It is simpler for the government and manufacturers to ignore the subject. I am surprised that they even touch on towing as much as they do.

They'd have to have an internal forum where they could all argue about it like we do.

Ken

Ahhhh... I think I see what you're getting at.
The vehicle is designed to carry passengers and cargo.

If you want to do other things, like tow stuff
or plow stuff
or strap a JATO to it and fly
that's (legally speaking) not the manufacturers concern.

Clever.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by timhortons

why do these microdroplets sometimes clump together into a cloud rather than disperse ? is it electrostatic ? is there a surface tension like area at the boundary of the cloud ? not going to get my towing questions answered here.

Keep in mind my formal education ended 50 years ago. Like fine wine with a leaky cork, knowledge oxidizes over time. The atmosphere is a non homogeneous mixture of particles, gases and BS blow up from farm fields, politicians, Airstream towing forums and many other sources.

Clouds are concentrations of water droplets that have formed when water vapor condenses on particles present in the air just as dew forms on the lawn. They form because, in that blob of air, the conditions are present for them to form. Just a few hundred feet away the conditions may not be favorable and thus the clouds have boundaries. This a constantly mixing and dynamic part of the atmosphere and hence we have weather.

Water droplets are often charged, due mainly to passing contact with other water droplets and particulates in the air. To the best of my knowledge there is no surface tension to a cloud as a whole, however individual droplet will have a surface tension. This is what causes their spherical shape.

Here is the exam on my lecture:

What percentage of it was:

1. knowledge

2. WAGs

3. A cloud formed by water in a cooling blast of hot air condensing on particles of BS

Ken

[boondockdad]

Is there extra credit offered?

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

Is there extra credit offered?

Yes,

Every praise of my great skills and knowledge, no matter how insincere, shall earn you 5 bonus points. A total of 100 bonus points will earn you free admission the next 5 towing threads.

If you fail to reach 100 after you have started to work for bonus points you will be required to read every towing thread on the forum and present a grand summation essay outlining the ultimate wisdom of all the threads combined.

Ken

P.S. Is it becoming obvious that I have received a pay check from the federal government for 54 years and still counting?

[JamuJoe]

Joe, thanks!

Is there anything learned from the 23/SUV towing experience that might have been an issue in either of these two incidents?

Pat[/QUOTE]


Hi Pat,
The dual axle, low center of gravity (with full water) and 14% tongue weight make the 23FB a very easy and safe trailer to tow.
I could only wish for anti lock disk brakes. We really have towed in ALL conditions in four seasons, and the one slight sway experience was due to an evasive maneuver in high cross winds that the GC stability control corrected within a few seconds. One emergency braking situation due to a deer was exciting, but the trailer tracked straight. The short overhang, agile handling and electronic stability system are advantages of a modern, quality SUV that compensate for the lower vehicle mass as compared to larger trucks.

In my opinion, excessive speed and driver distraction (cell phones used in any mode) are the most significant controllable factors in towing as well as driving safety.


Safe Travels,
Jamu Joe

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Today's SUV's being used to tow Airstreams weigh as much as 1/2 ton pickups, some with higher torque diesel engines, larger brakes, lower center of gravity, and fully independent suspensions.

The so-called minivans are not all that mini these days and have excellent stability features compared to pickups, and have higher payload ratings than many 1/2 tons.

And the unibody construction is stiffer, no frame flex the pickups suffer with. No bouncing, loose differential to try to control as well.

If the unibody is so good, why is it when you install a larger engine in a unibody car if it isn't strengthened, the first time you get on it , the body will flex enough that there will be wrinkles on the roof and the doors will no longer fit. You can ask a body man about this issue. My 4 axle kenworth empty is at 27500 lbs, the 3 axle pup trailer, on a pintle hitch, loaded is 43500 , I dumped the truck at one site and pulled the loaded trailer across town to another site, that was not good the ,you don't have the control you should have, if I traveled on the interstate , I believe we would have ended up in the ditch.When loaded the truck is 55500 with 43500 on the trailer and it handles like a dream, the truck is heavier than the trailer. My 2013 31 classic loaded has 7520 on the axles and my 3/4 dodge extended cab , short box has 4260 on the front with 4580 on the rear and it handles good, there is no going up hills with the flashers on . I will not be attempting to tow the classic with my wife's toyota venza in the near future..

[J. Morgan]

My 2008 Chevy half ton weighs about 5,500, my trailer weighs about 6,500, and my combination pulls like a dream too!

I admit that my 5.3 gasser does not have the power of a diesel when a diesel is running right, but I have found no hill on the Interstate system that I cant pull at 70 plus.

There is a stretch of 8% on 77 south of globe AZ that had me down to 37 mph, but it wasn't such an inconvenience that I feel the need to spend three times my 20K investment for a new and improved tow vehicle.

8% grades are not that common.

[wolf146]

Originally Posted by afneill

I'm thinking I just won't drive anymore roads with down hill sections. I will only drive on level roads or uphill. No more going downhill for me!😂

This reminds of a post years ago, where an individual wrote that they always planned any trip downhill in order to save fuel!!!!! I guess that individual must be living in Florida by now!!! Wolf146

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by wolf146

This reminds of a post years ago, where an individual wrote that they always planned any trip downhill in order to save fuel!!!!! I guess that individual must be living in Florida by now!!! Wolf146

The last I heard, they ended up in Death Valley and could never find a route to get out. It is their demise that the Valley was named to commemorate.

Ken

disclaimer: this post is as true as some of the posts already in this thread.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

My 2008 Chevy half ton weighs about 5,500, my trailer weighs about 6,500, and my combination pulls like a dream too!

I admit that my 5.3 gasser does not have the power of a diesel when a diesel is running right, but I have found no hill on the Interstate system that I cant pull at 70 plus.

There is a stretch of 8% on 77 south of globe AZ that had me down to 37 mph, but it wasn't such an inconvenience that I feel the need to spend three times my 20K investment for a new and improved tow vehicle.

8% grades are not that common.

Mr Morgan I got 25,000 in the dodge, 18 mos old with 36000 miles now with 91000 and no problems, every where you go from here is up hill, car show today

[JCWDCW]

I kind of gave up on this thread...too much vitriol. But while "walking" downtown today, I got to thinking about the whole tow vehicle size thing and it occurs to me that there are probably a lot more Semi-trailer rollovers than RV rollovers. So if the vehicle size is the be all to end all why are there so many Peterbuilt, Volvos and Internationals with all the HP and long wheelbase and air brakes ( with special license) of a cross continent tractor involved in crazy rollovers that usually result in someone dying .

Maybe just the driver and road conditions.....Huh!

JCW

[PKI]

Joe - Thank you for your information on towing the 23. We have only managed our initial shake down trips so far, so learning from the experience of others with similar TVs is of significant value. Appreciate your input. Pat

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by JCWDCW

I kind of gave up on this thread...too much vitriol. But while "walking" downtown today, I got to thinking about the whole tow vehicle size thing and it occurs to me that there are probably a lot more Semi-trailer rollovers than RV rollovers. So if the vehicle size is the be all to end all why are there so many Peterbuilt, Volvos and Internationals with all the HP and long wheelbase and air brakes ( with special license) of a cross continent tractor involved in crazy rollovers that usually result in someone dying .

Maybe just the driver and road conditions.....Huh!

JCW

Always remember:
If the world gives you vitriol, make vitriolade.

A story that will probably prove nothing:

One day I had to drive Interstate 80 between Salt Lake City and Cheyenne. There was a very strong south wind. There were at least a Dozen (I stopped counting) semi's on their sides on the westbound shoulder. The strangest part was that every one was a Volvo tractor. I pondered that and came up with following perhaps erroneous idea. If I am correct, the Volvos are supposedly more fuel efficient. I assume that means they are lighter. I wonder if that explains them being the only ones I saw on their side, or if it was pure coincidence.

Ken

[John&Vicki]

Great story Ken. And it does prove something... It's possible to speculate on anything and to connect all kinds of dots.

Cheers,
John

P.S. My conclusion from your story is that it's pretty obvious what happened. Volvos are engineered in Sweden for Swedish wind and are obviously not able to handle Wyoming wind. Pretty, pretty obvious.