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Old 07-05-2015, 12:12 PM   #225
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+1 Great post Perry.

Cheers,
John
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:30 PM   #226
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boy this entire thread has gone off the rails. so lets recast the original message, once again:

1. know your GVWR and don't exceed that number, takes some figuring.
2. if you are going to tow with a SUV or a 1/2 ton, you have less 'head room' with that GVWR number than with a 3/4 or 1 ton.
3. brake before you enter any curve, not while you are in that corner. just like riding a performance MC, you need to settle your suspension BEFORE you enter any corner.
4. if you are uncomfortable, slow down ahead of time.
5. my cruise control automatically downshifts. if it is set for too much speed, I scrub that off using the '-' key. touching the brake peddle obviously takes you out of cruise control.
6. set your brake controller BEFORE you leave on a trip. you need to get this correct so the trailer brakes come on a fraction AFTER you tow vehicle. if your trailer is pushing you, its your fault.

none of this is rocket science and does not require a degree in physics or mathematics. most of this is common sense so set your trailer and tow ahead of time and enjoy your travelling with some confidence in knowing your rig is set up properly.

if i missed any of the high points, please summarize but lets get off of the advance physics.
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:30 PM   #227
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I hope my satire was visible....
OK, got me....
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:55 PM   #228
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I recently purchased a '93 31' Excella (Dry weight 6350 lbs. I have a 2005 Burb 1500 as a tow vehicle so I towed the AS from Nevada to Pueblo with no great problems except that as I was climbing a grade leaving Salt Lake City on I-80 I noticed my water temp gauge climbing into the hot zone. I did make it to the top where it dropped back to normal with no further problems. My burb is equipped whit a 1200 pound hitch with a sway bar and according to the specs for both trailer and burb I should have been OK. Now thinking I should look for a 2500 burb as I do like a SUV over a pick-up. Any other suggestions for any other SUV's other than a 2500 Suburban?? Would it help the temp problem to flush the radiator as it is a 2005 with 175K miles. Can't afford a new one at 65K.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:01 PM   #229
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Maybe your 1500 Burb is OK, but I would look in to adding larger transmission cooler and a larger radiator (I would assume one is available), and/or an electric fan setup added to the radiator(s) to provide more airflow when you need it, like when you are climbing hills. Fans on a switch, to use them as you anticipate needing them, would be good.

Flushing the existing radiator at 175K miles is a good idea.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:11 PM   #230
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I keep thinking of things........

I'm guessing that the radiator cooling fan is on a clutch. Make sure it is operating properly: when you first start the engine and for the first few minutes, do you hear the "whoosh" of the fan turning with the engine? After the clutch warms up a bit, the fan should quiet down. As you are driving and climbing those hills, did you hear the fan engage? One way to visually check it is to raise the hood with the engine running, watch the fan turning, then have someone shut off the Burb..... does the fan free-wheel for several seconds, or does it stop in just a couple of seconds? A working fan clutch will not free-wheel.
Some folks overlook that, then start changing things without ensuring that the cooling they have is working properly.
Anyway, some things to check.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:42 PM   #231
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If momentum (p) is mass x speed, then p equals 605,000 for the Honda at max velocity. ......................
Additionally we know, and as a racing driver you will be keenly aware of this, demands on a braking system increase in line with weight, but exponential with speed.
When I gained by college degree in applied mathematics, I understood that the purpose of brakes is to convert kinetic energy (m*v^2) , not momentum (m*v), into heat energy. Additionally, the kinetic energy of a system does not increase exponentially with speed (e^v) It increases with the square (v^2)
Reference:
GCSE PHYSICS - What is Kinetic Energy? - Equations and Calculations - Mass and Velocity - GCSE SCIENCE.
I accept that this amount of detail is not required in a discussion forum such as this, but such detail, if quoted, needs to be accurate, and referenced, IMHO.
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:22 PM   #232
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Contrary to popular belief, the trailer brakes don't do 100% of the trailer braking unless everything is perfect. So it will push the tow vehicle to some extent. The higher your speed the worse it gets. If you don't believe me, get on a straight road. Apply the trailer brakes only and see how long it takes to stop from say 50 mph. Now turn your trailer brakes to zero and see how long it takes the tow vehicle brakes to stop without locking the wheels. I bet the time to stop will be greater with the trailer brakes only unless you have disk brakes on the trailer.

If you are going down hill the trailer weight adds to the momentum making your already weak drum brakes even less effective.


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Old 07-05-2015, 10:24 PM   #233
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If you are going down hill the trailer weight adds to the momentum making your already weak drum brakes even less effective.


Perry

and therefore.......................???????
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:32 AM   #234
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I don't know, my "weak" drum brakes will lock down on full application.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:16 AM   #235
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I don't know, my "weak" drum brakes will lock down on full application.
Yes...I have a total of 8 drums active at this time. No problems so far.
I must be an accident waiting to happen...NOT!

I'm lucky, I drive a 62yr old car on a regular basis and am constantly aware of how we used to operate a motor vehicle.

Know the capabilities of what your driving and stay within those parameters.

Never had an accident towing the AS or driving the 53 Ford.
My bad or just dumb luck?

Who let the trolls out?

I'm sure the original post was made with all good intentions, "beyond the pale" not withstanding.

Bob
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:13 PM   #236
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Now turn your trailer brakes to zero and see how long it takes the tow vehicle brakes to stop without locking the wheels.
I would highly recommend against this.

It's practically the crux of this thread. And it may just lead to another rollover, even under controlled conditions. Braking hard with only the lead vehicle with a ball towed trailer a recipe for jackknifing.

If I can make an analogy of the problem of braking in this manner with an articulated vehicle.

Imagine your arm outstretched, the forearm being the tow vehicle, and your elbow being the coupling between the tow and towed vehicle.

Pretend to brake with only the forward part of your arm (tow vehicle) by pressing your hand into a wall. Given enough force, your elbow will bend (jacknife).

Now have someone pull on your hand and brake with your body (i.e. trailer). At no point will your elbow tend to bend.

This is the difference between stability and instability.

So next time you're going downhill with significant speed, and relying heavily on engine braking, recognize the margin of stability lost. Engine braking is great for prolonged braking as it has infinite capacity to convert kinetic energy, but it is a compromise to stability.

It's even more complicated than that and I could go into the topic of traction circle and the loss of lateral traction (esp. 2wd) when engine braking, but I'll save that for another time.
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:12 PM   #237
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Speed kills, and so does incorrect set up, lack of tow package, lack of knowledge. The rest has nothing to do with physics. I've seen 3/4 ton pick ups lose it from improper driving or speed for conditions. 3/4 ton is clearly better for towing bigger rigs. However, a properly equipped and loaded 1/2 within its load rating will be just fine as well.
I'm speaking from 26 years in law enforcement, including Advance Collision and Accident Reconstruction certification. Bottom line, inspect your equipment, anticipate as much as possible, and slooowww down.
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:53 PM   #238
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SHowever, a properly equipped and loaded 1/2 within its load rating will be just fine as well.
and of course, that was the original message which folks seem to have forgotten.
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