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Old 01-09-2019, 10:09 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by billrector View Post
Yes, you can reduce payload and then reverse what you did to gain payload but you cannot add to payload to the manufactures stated payload without reducing the vehicle weight. If you want to rip out the back seat or remove your sunroof, you can add payload. Adding new springs or airbags does not add payload!
I agree it doesn't (automatically) add payload. It MAY add payload.

It comes down to identifying the weakest link, and not all may have the inclination, resources or ability to do that. When I have identified the weakest link on a vehicle that was limited by the specification of a component (tire, spring, etc) then upgrading that component increases the useful payload. Not the manufacturer's certified payload, it is usually too involved to go back and change the original official GVWR or payload sticker, although it can be done, it is just a hassle to do it. What is usually changed is the effective payload. This work has involved running the parts consist of vehicles to identify what is different between two vehicles. If the only thing causing an artificially lower payload is possible to change economically, then it can be done. It can also be done by an upfitter, who perhaps installs a special body and needs a heavier GVWR, so they beef up the base truck and apply for a new VIN, which comes with a new GVWR label. It is a process governed by the federal regulations.

The best guidance on this is from the companies certified as upfitters for specific manufacturers.

Sometimes an easier way of doing it is to take the order number for a higher GVWR option that the vehicle in question doesn't have, and run that through the manufacturer to get the parts consist of the changes (adds and deletes). That gives you your shopping list. We did that with one manufacturer that I worked with, I don't know if all support it. You need a crossover reference from sales consists to parts consists, they are different systems usually.

A pretty typical example is if someone wants to install a snowplow and doesn't have that option on his vehicle. If the axles are the specification, then changing the other components that were part of the snowplow option can increase the useful rating to the snowplow rating. Often it is just springs.

Here is another example. My (European) vehicle has a standard payload sticker, for all configurations of a certain model. I wondered if it would be reduced for my specific vehicle, which was heavily optioned. My door sticker said the same as the standard payload, higher than I expected given the panoramic sunroof, active steering, etc, etc. So I wanted to know how they did that. Turned out they designed the vehicle for the heaviest GVWR, and used that GVWR for the most heavily optioned version. Every other version had a different GVWR, to maintain the same payload. When I looked at the parts book for coil springs, I had to pick the option package to get the right spring ratings for the correct ride height. I think it would have been easy to put the springs on for the heaviest optioned version, to increase payload, but didn't have a need to. It would have been the same as buying the heavily optioned vehicle, and removing some of the options.

This type of modification after purchase doesn't just apply to weight ratings. I had a vehicle that came with a speed limiter. It was set for faster than I wanted to go, but that is a side story. Some versions of the same vehicle didn't have the limiter. Turned out that it was due to tire speed ratings. Some dealers were happy to go into the vehicle software and turn off the speed limiter, but not unless they could see that you had first changed the tires, which were the limiting factor.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:17 PM   #58
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There is no way to increase payload on a truck. Changing springs and adding airbags does NOT increase payload.
You should get out more.

I'm telling you it does change the effective payload handling capacity. You're conflating regulation, which is very hard and expensive to navigate to certify for larger payloads, vs engineering ability to augment for more effective payload.

Upfitters do this all the time and are able to engineer (often just springs and perhaps 3rd member ratio) and certify for higher payloads.

As an extreme example. Consider the armored car upfitters. They often take regular SUVs and trucks to almost 4tons. Upfitters like these do it all the time.

We're giving you a hint at what can be done.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:36 PM   #59
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There is no way to increase payload on a truck. Changing springs and adding airbags does NOT increase payload.
You canít change what the sticker says anymore than you can change manufacturer stated horsepower, top speed, etc. but you CAN modify a vehicle to carry more, handle better, etc. End users and owners do it all the time. Adding heavier springs and different axles is only one example. Many of us have the knowhow and ability to do upgrades.

Many mods are done to address known shortcomings of the vehicle. There is a good knowledge base of modifications for any known vehicle. The Ram HD, for example, has known issues that can be fixed with available parts. Another example is the 6.2 GM and 6.0 Ford diesels everyone loves to hate. Thereís nothing wrong with doing this. Thereís a big difference between manufacturing vehicles for sale, and owner/aftermarket mods. This stuff has been going on since Frontenac heads were being put on Model T Fords.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:44 AM   #60
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You should get out more.

I'm telling you it does change the effective payload handling capacity. You're conflating regulation, which is very hard and expensive to navigate to certify for larger payloads, vs engineering ability to augment for more effective payload.

Upfitters do this all the time and are able to engineer (often just springs and perhaps 3rd member ratio) and certify for higher payloads.

As an extreme example. Consider the armored car upfitters. They often take regular SUVs and trucks to almost 4tons. Upfitters like these do it all the time.

We're giving you a hint at what can be done.
So how would you increase an axle rating?
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:46 AM   #61
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One source of confusion here is some people are talking payload CAPACITY and others are talking payload RATING. You can, indeed, increase payload capacity, but the truck's payload rating will not change because of that.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:13 AM   #62
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So how would you increase an axle rating?
Rating is a guideline.

The axle rating commonly has more capacity when compared to payload. So that already helps us out.

Going beyond axle rating within reason is fine as it's generally conservative. There are population out there like overlanders and upfitters that regularly way exceed axle ratings and it has proven still durable.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:34 PM   #63
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So how would you increase an axle rating?
Jeep guys do it like this...
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:42 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by pteck View Post
You should get out more.



I'm telling you it does change the effective payload handling capacity. You're conflating regulation, which is very hard and expensive to navigate to certify for larger payloads, vs engineering ability to augment for more effective payload.



Upfitters do this all the time and are able to engineer (often just springs and perhaps 3rd member ratio) and certify for higher payloads.



As an extreme example. Consider the armored car upfitters. They often take regular SUVs and trucks to almost 4tons. Upfitters like these do it all the time.



We're giving you a hint at what can be done.


I should get out more....nice way to start a conversation!

If course you can increase payload if you are willing to beef up the frame, increase the suspension and change the axles. If you want to, you can turn and F150 into a tank. What was discussed was changing springs and adding airbags. Those do not increase payload though they may make the vehicle drive better.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:01 PM   #65
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I should get out more....nice way to start a conversation!

If course you can increase payload if you are willing to beef up the frame, increase the suspension and change the axles. If you want to, you can turn and F150 into a tank. What was discussed was changing springs and adding airbags. Those do not increase payload though they may make the vehicle drive better.
Ummmm...yes they do. You can add leafs to a spring and the truck will carry more. Same thing with air bags. You can exceed the payload limits using air bags to level the truck.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:08 PM   #66
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Of course you can increase payload if you are willing to beef up the frame, increase the suspension and change the axles. If you want to, you can turn and F150 into a tank. What was discussed was changing springs and adding airbags. Those do not increase payload though they may make the vehicle drive better.
That is the right line of thinking. Now check whether the same model as you are looking to increase capacity on is available with a heavier GVW, and see what the differences are to the model in question. If the frame is heavier, then yes. But if the frame and axles are the same, and it is just springs, then there you go.

Most models are available with a wide range of GVWRs. Consider that some axles assemblies (Dana 60 for example) were used from passenger vehicles to vehicles heavier than F350s, with different wheels, tires, and springs. An axle is not maxed out in a single model, unless you are driving the heaviest vehicle that axle assembly was ever offered in.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:41 AM   #67
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Jeep guys do it like this...
The last housing I trussed was a Dana 70. The Tundra housing is a relatively thin stamped steel housing that can crack wherever you weld on it. You must be careful welding on a stamped steel housing as you can cause distortion and stress welding on it. There is no heavy cast iron pieces to weld to. I have seen toyota housings rust through and leak oil.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:21 AM   #68
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Sounds like you've seen and done it all.
Toyota has no problem welding the housing together and the one in my driveway with 145k sometimes overloaded work miles doesn't leak Anywhere.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:11 PM   #69
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You can exceed the payload limits using air bags to level the truck.
Learn something new every day here, I had no idea that the yellow sticker payload number was the manufacturers weight limit as to what the vehicle could carry before it would no longer be level. I always thought it was some kind of safety thing, don't I feel silly now.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:40 PM   #70
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Learn something new every day here, I had no idea that the yellow sticker payload number was the manufacturers weight limit as to what the vehicle could carry before it would no longer be level. I always thought it was some kind of safety thing, don't I feel silly now.
I can explain it to you, but I canít understand it for you. Go ahead and anguish over that yellow sticker. Iíll just hook up and go.
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