Tundra 5.7 vs F150 EcoBoost

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

So far looking at 2013 Supercrews on line with the 5.0L V8 they seem to only have the 3.31 axles. The 2013 Ford towing guide shows 8000lbs with either the 3.55 of 3.31. I think you have to special order an F150 to get the 3.73 axle around here. Then I might as well see about the Max Towing and Max Payload options. Might be over my financial comfort zone. You can find plenty of 2013 Ecoboost on the lots here with 3.55. Haven't seen one yet with 3.73 but maybe those are the $50k model

Kelvin

Dealer load the lots up with what their customers buy. Most truck buyers in the Metroplex really are shopping for a car that LOOKS like a truck, since all they do is drive them to the office and the mall. I had to do lots of looking to find a nice 5.4l when I was looking for a used truck a couple of years ago, the little V8 with a low-numeric diff seemed to make up most of the inventory. I have a 3.55 LSD on my '07, and it does the job towing my '75 Argosy 24-footer but as I said it takes some spurs to get it to be enthusiastic about grades. I'm not ashamed of the sound, I just stop looking at the mileage readout when I'm climbing.

[Phrunes]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Dealer load the lots up with what their customers buy. Most truck buyers in the Metroplex really are shopping for a car that LOOKS like a truck, since all they do is drive them to the office and the mall. I had to do lots of looking to find a nice 5.4l when I was looking for a used truck a couple of years ago, the little V8 with a low-numeric diff seemed to make up most of the inventory. I have a 3.55 LSD on my '07, and it does the job towing my '75 Argosy 24-footer but as I said it takes some spurs to get it to be enthusiastic about grades. I'm not ashamed of the sound, I just stop looking at the mileage readout when I'm climbing.

That's sooo true...my worst mileage to date...downhill, Donner Summit CA, 5.4 l f150, 3:73 gears, 4wheel drive low range, in a blizzard behind a big rig...4 MPG. Lol

[KJRitchie]

We went and looked at one of the few remaining F150 SCrew Ecoboost XLT last night and they ran some numbers. They are discounting them slightly more than $10k with all the incentives. I would have to use high interest Ford credit for a minimum of 3 months then I could refinance. The XLT features are nice and this had a color back up camera. Only a manual AC. It had the 40/20/40 seats. The center console pulls down. This was a big disappointment. There is barely enough storage in it and it's too high for my liking. I guess I prefer the bucket seats with console.

Next door is the Honda dealership and they had a green 2007 Tundra Limited with 46k miles. There is no Navigation but it has dual AC, the manual extendible towing mirrors that have turn signals, 6 CD changer and leather. The seats are in very good shape. They had the main serpentine belt changed, water pump replace, rear linings replace. I think the prices is a little hight $23.9. They let me drive it home. I was going to have a Toyota dealership inspect it on my own dime but I'd have to wait 3 hours for it and I'm at work. The only fault I see is the transmission shift lever. It feels looser than my 2005 4Runner and going from neutral to D it squeaks. I'd like to get that checked out. Not sure if Honda mechanics are up on the idiosyncrasies of Tundras. My local Toyota dealership has a 2011 Double Cab 4x4 for $27.9 with only $21k. No running boards on it so I would need to add those and its cloth. My wife seems to prefer the ergonomics of the Tundra vs Ford.

Darn stomach is grumbling. Must be stress.

Kelvin

[M. Smith]

I wouldn't worry about the Navigation. It's much easier to have a portable gps unit that you can use in any vehicle. You can upgrade on your computer versus buying new disks for an installed navigation unit. Much cheaper.
Sounds like you have some good choices.

[DKB_SATX]

I also strongly prefer the buckets+console interior in the F150. And if you go for a newer Lariat (or higher trim) that layout gets you air-conditioned seats, a fantastic feature for Texas.

[kscherzi]

Finding the right truck on the lot is counting on luck. For towing, payload is so important that I will be special ordering my F-150. The only downside is having to wait the 3 months to take delivery. Anybody can also take advantage of Ford's X-Plan pricing, just buy and own 100 shares of Ford stock for six months. The X-Plan is essentially dealers invoice. Eliminates the unpleasant bickering. You might get a better deal if you are a really good negotiator, but not on a special order.

On Fords build and price website one can order a 2013 XLT Screw Ecoboost, 3.73 locker 4x4 with 6.5 foot bed and get about 2,300 lbs of payload. Move to 5.5' bed and payload drops to about 1,900 lbs. Slightly higher payload for the 4x2's. This includes the max trailer tow package, things like extending mirrors and other neat stuff. Payload is slightly reduced by additional options (like LT tires) but there aren't too many other options than front bucket seats that I'd go for. Built like this a 4x4 is around $42k MSRP. With the X-Plan the price is probably in the mid/upper 30's.

[DKB_SATX]

kscherzi: It's NOT the locker, it's the 3.73 limited-slip rear diff that gets you the HD Payload package in the 157" wb F150s. That first page on the configurator will continue to say what the max payload is regardless of the config you're putting in, but you have to see "HD Payload" checked under "Packages" on the next screen after you're selecting cab/box/engine/differential to get that big payload.

3.73 limited-slip diff with 7-lug wheels is the tip-off. I didn't know about the stock ownership thing for the X-plan, I wonder if it also works if you hold that stock in an IRA...

[KJRitchie]

I think looking at or finances and getting some numbers at dealers a new F150 even the 2012 remaining on the lot are too expensive and even a new Tundra. Having to order one doesn't look possible either. I've been following this couples journey
WatsonsWander - Exploring and working fulltime from our Airstream |

They have an older 25 that they fixed up and a 2008 Tundra Double Cab 5.7L with 75k miles. They started in Vermont last year, traveled across northern US to Washington, down to California and are now in Arizona. They use a Hensley hitch also. So far no issues with the truck but some issues with the AS but none major.

Kelvin

[Wazbro]

Kelvin have looked at a used 3/4 ton?
At this point I would not get one for a daily driver myself, but for a 90%+ towing vehicle I would give it serious consideration.

[xrocket]

Kelvin, I've stayed out of the New Ford vs. Used Tundra debate because there is no right or wrong answer, sooo ... I'm going to offer a short educational projection on used Tundra vs. New '13 Tundra comparison. This is ballpark...

First two and three year old Tundras for what ever reason and varying by market bring close (within a thousand or two) what a brand new like equipped '13 can be bought for. Consider new tires, new full warranty, new consumables and full 25,000 mile oil, tire rotation and balance from the dealer at the buy in the DFW area. What are these worth? About the difference in new vs used. Now to pricing ...

Today as advertised in the DFW market they are offering $7,000. off a new Tundra (5000 gulf states rebate / 2000 dealer profit / Toy Fia participation) plus free fia zero interest / 60 months for a savings of around 3g's. That's ten bigs off in any book and as the ol'TV commercials says ... "but wait, there is more!!!"

The dealer hold back on a Tundra in the DFW market is 3% of retail invoice and on a $32,500 standard option 5.7 DoubleCab with tow package that's close to an additional 1000. more in savings for a total of $8000. off plus fia savings of $3000.+.

A used three year old Tundra @ $23,500 plus normal fia @ 4-6% depending on credit apps puts you within the magical one to two thousand difference between actual new to used with a whole lot of pluses to the new side of the equation.

Now compare the any other new make to the new Tundra based on real world (DFW) prices and consider backside resale and it just comes down to the ol' apples vs. oranges in the end. Do you want a new apple or a new orange?

That's how you buy a new Tundra in the DFW market. If your trading when buying that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms my friend along with maintenance plans, insurance and whatever each dealer tries to tack on ... @ the end.

BTW ... The Tundra is slated for a slight new visual package upgrade and an 8 speed tranny for '14 hence the big money off the '13's now. Your best selection won't get any better than right now on a Tundra.

I know it will give you tired head on all the ins and outs on buying new vs used anything, so my last piece of advice is to land on the truck that you want, color, equipment and make, then and only then start wheeling and dealing based on a focused goal. You'll come out ahead in the end.

Good luck

[KJRitchie]

I doubt I'd be able to afford a 2014 Tundra. 8 speeds sounds good but what is the project fuel economy? A couple of mpg isn't worth the price of upgrading.

I've found 3 private sellers with Tundra 2007 double cabs all around the same mileage now. 15k to 16.5k with 89k to 92k miles. Two white (1 8ft bed) and one green like the 2007 Limited I have on loan from a dealer. The question is "Is 56k worth $8k"? The 2007 Limited as dual AC and leather but I really don't care about that. It's got the manual trailer mirrors but so does the other green one with 92k miles. The description from the seller is they have all the maint records, even the original sticker. I guess it's worth seeing.

I should look for 2011 F150 Ecoboost preowned. See what they are going for.

Kelvin

[pappy19]

You don't need an X-plan from Ford to get an X-plan price. Just ask the Ford dealer if he will sell you an F-150 of your choice for the X-plan price. Better still, just ask the sales manager if he is willing to get into the holdback money to sell you a truck. Regardless, you will be better off by leasing an F-150 (or any other vehicle for that matter) than buying it out right. Even if you could pay cash for the truck up front, you are better off to lease at least for 2 years. Most of my leases were for 3 years. Ford has the best leases on the planet and leasing now is really good. You can lease a new truck for the same or less monthly payment than a used one, why buy used? You may get someone else's headache.

Pap

[KJRitchie]

Found a white 2011 F150 SCrew EB 40k miles $25.9k, one owner. Don't know the rear end so I'll have to ask them to send me the axle code off the vehicle. I want at least a 3.55 so that is 19 for non limited slip and H9 for limited slip

I always wonder why people trade in a car so soon. Is it because of mechanical issues?

[pappy19]

Sometimes they are just turning in a lease vehicle. Those are the best used vehicles in alot of cases. But again, why buy used when you can get a new one for the same or less monthly payment? You get new warranty, only pay sales tax but on the monthly payment-not on the total price of the truck, if you don't like it in 2-3 years, you just take it back, you are never "upside down" on a lease, and if done right, is a great tax deduction.

[h8rain]

Originally Posted by pappy19

You don't need an X-plan from Ford to get an X-plan price. Just ask the Ford dealer if he will sell you an F-150 of your choice for the X-plan price. Better still, just ask the sales manager if he is willing to get into the holdback money to sell you a truck. Regardless, you will be better off by leasing an F-150 (or any other vehicle for that matter) than buying it out right. Even if you could pay cash for the truck up front, you are better off to lease at least for 2 years. Most of my leases were for 3 years. Ford has the best leases on the planet and leasing now is really good. You can lease a new truck for the same or less monthly payment than a used one, why buy used? You may get someone else's headache.

Pap

Leasing doesn't make financial sense for an individual, period. Leasing companies are notorious for assessing fees at vehicle surrender. Not to mention profiting on residual values.

It occasionally makes sense for companies because they are in essence expensing principal & interest thereby reducing taxable income. If you lease, the financing cost of the payments is higher. If you can't afford the payments to finance the purchase of a vehicle, that tells you that it costs too much for your budget. Leasing ad infinitum (over and over) is paying interest on depreciating assets forever. Leasing co.s are out there to make a profit, not because it makes financial sense for the buyer.

Just my two cents after 25 years and counting of commercial and corporate banking.

[pappy19]

Sorry, but you are wrong, especially on Ford leases. For one thing, the Ford lease states exactly what the residual price of the vehicle is at the end of the lease, period. Also, I always only have the minimum annual or total miles on my lease. I do not pay up front for additional miles; reason is if I do go over the miles and buy the vehicle at the end of the lease, it doesn't matter how many miles are on the vehicle, the residual price is what it is. The really smart people, take out a second mortgage or a LOC and pay the lease up front for the term of the lease, getting an even better deal from Ford; then your monthly payment is on your home which is a tax deduction for the interest. In addition, you only pay sales tax on the monthly payment if it is a lease. Otherwise, you pay sales tax on the entire amount if you buy and that gets added into the monthly payment as well. The lease payment on the same vehicle with the same money down will almost always be less than an outright purchase. On a lease, you are basically paying off the depreciation. When you lease from a "leasing company", even a local bank, you could be asking for trouble. The Ford Red Carpet Lease is the best in the business. Other companies may not be as good to work with.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

We went and looked at one of the few remaining F150 SCrew Ecoboost XLT last night and they ran some numbers. They are discounting them slightly more than $10k with all the incentives. I would have to use high interest Ford credit for a minimum of 3 months then I could refinance. The XLT features are nice and this had a color back up camera. Only a manual AC. It had the 40/20/40 seats. The center console pulls down. This was a big disappointment.

I have those seats, it thought that I wouldn't like them but now I love it. We flip up the console and our two dogs ride between us strapped in to the center seat belt. I did the high rate 3 month deal and the switched to my low interest rate credit union.

Hope you find the truck which best fits your needs.

Jim

[h8rain]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Sorry, but you are wrong, especially on Ford leases. For one thing, the Ford lease states exactly what the residual price of the vehicle is at the end of the lease, period. Also, I always only have the minimum annual or total miles on my lease. I do not pay up front for additional miles; reason is if I do go over the miles and buy the vehicle at the end of the lease, it doesn't matter how many miles are on the vehicle, the residual price is what it is. The really smart people, take out a second mortgage or a LOC and pay the lease up front for the term of the lease, getting an even better deal from Ford; then your monthly payment is on your home which is a tax deduction for the interest. In addition, you only pay sales tax on the monthly payment if it is a lease. Otherwise, you pay sales tax on the entire amount if you buy and that gets added into the monthly payment as well. The lease payment on the same vehicle with the same money down will almost always be less than an outright purchase. On a lease, you are basically paying off the depreciation. When you lease from a "leasing company", even a local bank, you could be asking for trouble. The Ford Red Carpet Lease is the best in the business. Other companies may not be as good to work with.

Every lease has a condition addendum. If you're story is Ford doesn't charge someone for a dent in the hood, that sounds like a fairytale.

I love the thought of someone paying a lease in full at commencement. Then borrowing more money to do it. You have missed the fact that the payment includes the finance charge. Basically, you're paying interest on money you didn't borrow. Stop now, you aren't credible.

[DKB_SATX]

h8rain: While I don't think "leasing" is always a good option, I've discussed this in person with pappy19 and my impression is that he's always approaching the lease deal with the intention of keeping the vehicle if it turns out to be a good truck, and that's why he ignores the condition and mileage stipulations. It's a special case and should probably be mentioned up front, but that's part of why it works for him.

Also, there's leasing and then there's leasing... it irks me a bit that what consumers get (in Texas anyway) and think is a lease really is not, it's a balloon-payment note with a promise from the finance to buy back in lieu of the balloon payment if conditions are met, usually with a pre-agreed option to automatically refinance for the same payment (potentially leading to what's effectively an 8-year note!)

So, case by case, you're both right, but I suspect that for the vast majority of drivers, h8rain's description is closer to what really happens to them.

[undl8r]

Many leases are simple interest and pre-paying will reduce the total amount some, however, you have to remember that you are still paying interest on the residual value of the car (in addition to depreciated - which is being paid off as part of the lease). General rule of thumb is >15K mi a year and plan on keeping a long time - then buy it. However, even in this case why take a chance? Negotiate a low sale price and decent residual, take the lease and if the vehicle lives up to your standards then purchase outright at the end. It doesn't matter if you go over on your miles, as long as you purchase it you wont get charged (read your contract for sure). Many dealers will re-negotiate the residual price (lower) just to make the sale and not have to inventory / restock the truck.
Additionally, the tax issue is a big one in some states, e.g. CA. We are ~10%, so a $35K truck will cost you an extra $2K in taxes if you are able to lease it for a total payment(s) of ~$15K ($3,500 vs. $1,500). Of course if you buy at the end you will have to pay the remaining taxes.
Another thing to consider is stuff like tires. A 2-3 yr lease and normal driving will likely result in no need for new tires, which can run $1-2K.
As for damage, all leases specific how big, how many, etc. dents and scratches you can have per panel / bumper / etc. When i leased a BMW i took it to a paint-less dent removal and airbrush touch up shop, spent $500 and had no turn in charges. Another good idea is to turn the vehicle back in a night and even better if it is raining, makes it harder to find issues.

just my $0.02 but what do i know.