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Old 04-06-2018, 06:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
TW doesn’t count into payload in the real world. Only in the imaginary RV one. With a WD hitch it is divided among the TT axles and TV axles. “Payload” is pretty much all on the TV rear axle. That will be less than 40% of TW. Payload itself isn’t any way to measure the effect of TW once WD is applied. One uses axle/tire ratings.
.
While I know your up on your usual soapbox and that's fine, every vehicle has a payload capacity, whether you prefer to look at GVWR or each GAWR combined, the vehicle is only designed to carry so much weight, supported by the tires in contact with the ground. This is the same whether it is a boulder in the bed or a trailer hooked on the hitch ball, the difference between your starting setup and your ultimate tow is your PAYLOAD, no matter which numbers you believe.

Whether you use a WDH or not, the number is the same, if you use a WDH it moves some load of the TV wheels and you can carry something else, if you don't it's all supported and you can't.

It doesn't matter if you've got 300M or an F350, the process works the same

Yes, steering, braking and control are the most important thing, which is why a 3,500lb TV trying to control a 10,000lb trailer (even with huge multi piston disc brakes) on a step descent, during an OH-**** moment is not going to fare as well as an 8,700lb high center of gravity F350. The leverageability (my word) of that trailer over that TV will easily cause it to break ground contact sooner and once it's broken it doesn't matter how good your brakes are, if you have IFS or how fast you can do a slalom course.

Sure on level ground weaving around cones with pulling tension on the hitch, the 300M wins every time, but even big rigs jackknife and they're are supposedly designed for what they do. Maybe they should use cars for that too.

Everything is about driver responsibility, knowing how to behave and react. Obviously an F350 will roll wayyyyy before a 300M, but if a driver doesn't try to overreact/correct then this would be mitigated greatly.

Maintaining safe speed and distance will make every vehicle safe enough to tow with, whether the vehicle can handle/survive the ordeal is a different discussion.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:00 AM   #16
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You would be a fool if you don’t factor your payload total for the truck.
“Not a factor in real world” That statement is so wrong and can NOT be backed up in any way except his “relative experience”.

The closer the trailer weight puts the TV vehicle toward its GCVWR the higher the risk of sway or roll on downhill curves.
There is an obvious reason to why the larger the vehicle the larger the tow capacity.

Again, you CAN tow with a smaller TV. Unless you HAVE to, why would you “force” it to?
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #17
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Looking at a International Serenity 27FB. Need to know if a Ford150 3.5L EcoBoost V6 is adequate for towing.
Yes it is. I have the exact same setup. Been to Alaska and back. Towed over long 9% grades up and down with ease. Unless you plan to haul motorcycles or other very heavy stuff in the truck bed you really don't need a heavy duty truck.
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Old 04-06-2018, 02:02 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mollie11 View Post
Looking at a International Serenity 27FB. Need to know if a Ford150 3.5L EcoBoost V6 is adequate for towing.
Sorry, I realized that in my other post I neglected the original question. Properly set up, an 3.5L EcoBoost F150 is quite adequate for the job. I didn't mean to imply it had to be F350
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:51 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by RandyNH View Post
While I know your up on your usual soapbox and that's fine, every vehicle has a payload capacity, whether you prefer to look at GVWR or each GAWR combined, the vehicle is only designed to carry so much weight, supported by the tires in contact with the ground. This is the same whether it is a boulder in the bed or a trailer hooked on the hitch ball, the difference between your starting setup and your ultimate tow is your PAYLOAD, no matter which numbers you believe.

Whether you use a WDH or not, the number is the same, if you use a WDH it moves some load of the TV wheels and you can carry something else, if you don't it's all supported and you can't.

It doesn't matter if you've got 300M or an F350, the process works the same

Yes, steering, braking and control are the most important thing, which is why a 3,500lb TV trying to control a 10,000lb trailer (even with huge multi piston disc brakes) on a step descent, during an OH-**** moment is not going to fare as well as an 8,700lb high center of gravity F350. The leverageability (my word) of that trailer over that TV will easily cause it to break ground contact sooner and once it's broken it doesn't matter how good your brakes are, if you have IFS or how fast you can do a slalom course.

Sure on level ground weaving around cones with pulling tension on the hitch, the 300M wins every time, but even big rigs jackknife and they're are supposedly designed for what they do. Maybe they should use cars for that too.

Everything is about driver responsibility, knowing how to behave and react. Obviously an F350 will roll wayyyyy before a 300M, but if a driver doesn't try to overreact/correct then this would be mitigated greatly.

Maintaining safe speed and distance will make every vehicle safe enough to tow with, whether the vehicle can handle/survive the ordeal is a different discussion.
I used cars the first twenty years. Trucks or truck types the thirty since then. There’s still no comparison worthy. And everyone has bad days.

Best design trumps all else. That’s a soapbox? Or your refusal to use common sense. To test.

If as you say were so, I’d never see a pickup pulling a trailer on its front axle. And NEVER above 55. Those would be evidence of responsible operation. Good luck finding it.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:56 PM   #20
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I have a 28’ International. Tow with a 2017 Ford F-150 XLT 3.5 Ecoboost with max tow package (36 gallon tank). Get about 12mpg when towing. Use a Propride Hitch. Works great. No sway. Steady in wind and traffic. Have plenty of power. Now if I was a pulling for longer periods (months on the road) then I would probably get a 3/4 ton with heavier components and payload. Not sure I would get a diesel due to the maintenance hassles and expensive repairs if something fails. But would definitely consider it.
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:24 PM   #21
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I will admit that I was impressed by the Ford 3.5 Ecoboost results from the Gauntlet tow test.

I have always liked the F150 ride.

Only negative I see is after a bed cap you have a small payload for crap. Although that can be worked around I suppose in the trailer?
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:01 PM   #22
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I have a 2017 28’ International that is being squired around by a 53k mile F250 Lariat diesel. I thought long and hard about replacing my TV with a new 3/4 ton but my TV looks brand new and actually has a fairly nice quiet ride. I love the full sized bed for our bikes and all the cool camping stuff I’ve acquired. The best thing is our 28’ Serenity respects the weight and power of the F250 and does not get “bossy”. The second best thing is the money I’ve spent to bullet proof my 2005 is significantly less than what it would cost to replace it.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:19 AM   #23
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I have a 2017 Chevy 2500 High Country Crew cab singe rear wheel Diesel Pickup and we have a 2018 27FBQ Serenity with the ProPride hitch.
And let me tell you that it rides, tows and stops almost like the trailer isn't there.
When the truck is empty it rides beautifully as well.
I honestly cant imagine a better truck for the job
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:51 AM   #24
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I don't know much about Ford's EcoBoost offering, but I've heard good things about it.


My perspective changed dramatically on my last trip through Yellowstone. Those that have braved the east entrance, we did, only left that way and took 16 (the more mild version) through the mountains toward Cody know what I'm talking about.



I could tell my 6.0L 3/4 ton Burb was really working to not only get itself through the mountains, but the 6300+lb Safari. I don't know if I'd want to try it with a turbo V-6, heck even the semis with more power than I had were struggling.


Mountain towing and I mean real mountain towing is vastly different than flatland or a few hills at grade. These mountains I speak of had 6-8% grades that lasted upwards of 5 miles at a time. I think if money were no object, if I were going to be doing this regularly, I think diesel is the way to go with gobs of torque at low RPMs.



I'd be real interested in hearing some EcoBoost folks chime in about some similar mountain towing.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:36 PM   #25
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There is a difference between be capable of towing and being comfortable in towing your AS. I prefer comfort and confidence. IMHO for your size AS a 3/4 ton TV would be optimal.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
I don't know much about Ford's EcoBoost offering, but I've heard good things about it.


My perspective changed dramatically on my last trip through Yellowstone. Those that have braved the east entrance, we did, only left that way and took 16 (the more mild version) through the mountains toward Cody know what I'm talking about.



I could tell my 6.0L 3/4 ton Burb was really working to not only get itself through the mountains, but the 6300+lb Safari. I don't know if I'd want to try it with a turbo V-6, heck even the semis with more power than I had were struggling.


Mountain towing and I mean real mountain towing is vastly different than flatland or a few hills at grade. These mountains I speak of had 6-8% grades that lasted upwards of 5 miles at a time. I think if money were no object, if I were going to be doing this regularly, I think diesel is the way to go with gobs of torque at low RPMs.



I'd be real interested in hearing some EcoBoost folks chime in about some similar mountain towing.




This is the new eco boost that I bought. Check it out pulling 9600 lbs up a 7% grade.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:33 AM   #27
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~~
I could tell my 6.0L 3/4 ton Burb was really working to not only get itself through the mountains, but the 6300+lb Safari. I don't know if I'd want to try it with a turbo V-6, heck even the semis with more power than I had were struggling.


Mountain towing and I mean real mountain towing is vastly different than flatland or a few hills at grade. These mountains I speak of had 6-8% grades that lasted upwards of 5 miles at a time. I think if money were no object, if I were going to be doing this regularly, I think diesel is the way to go with gobs of torque at low RPMs.

~~
Modern turbocharged direct-injection gasoline engines are amazing. The 3.5 Ecoboost delivers about 420 lb-ft (of its 470 lb-ft peak) by 1700 RPM and stays at or above that all the way up to 5000 RPM. It pulls really well in "real mountains." Between its compensation for power loss at elevation (the factor that was probably killing your Suburban's power up there) and the really broad torque curve and the 10-speed transmission keeping the engine in a good performance range it's a towing beast.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:01 AM   #28
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^Well said.

It's about output in the end. The high end variant of the 3.5EB definitely puts out the numbers.

Those numbers are stout enough, that with enough structure, gearing, and cooling in a proper chassis, it will out-tow the beefiest diesel. Because the other factor is weight. As in power to weight. Diesels don't make more power, but are quite a bit heavier.

The diesel will be less thirsty than the gasser at higher duty cycles.

Waiting for the arrival of the new 7.0L gasser from Ford. That motor will be another game changer for HD trucks.
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