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Old 03-31-2007, 11:29 PM   #85
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2006 23' Safari SE
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2007 Silverado

Hey Bill,
I have the new 2007 silverado with a 5.3 L. I also just bought a 23ft safari with a equalizer hitch it tows awesome. I just got back from towing from alabama to big bend in texas, over 3000k total miles. I got the tow package and a prodogy controller. Not once did i feel like it didn't have enough power, even in big bend. I also got 13.4 MPG towing over that 3000 miles, The truck rides very smooth, not once did i feel like i needed a bigger truck. Would i buy a 25 ft with this setup? Absolutely.

I also get 20.8 mpg without towing, that is city and hiway and i live in a very hilly area. i'm very happy with it so far. I figure i'll be breaking 21 when it is totally broken in. I drove with the wind and rain against us on rt 10 in texas, never was it a problem. Zero white knuckle driving. Very very nice truck so far. (It's about time GM) The only thing i will do is put on a second trans cooler if i can, i was hitting 175 degrees or so sometimes. Not sure if that is bad but i'd rather have it in the 150's.

With a 6.0 it would have plenty of power IMO, without riding like a 3/4 ton. Of course the extra weight of a 3/4 might make you feel more secure, but it will also hurt the ride, power and mileage. This is JMO, there are much more experienced towers in here than i am.
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Old 04-01-2007, 09:00 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchinup1
Hey Bill,
I have the new 2007 silverado with a 5.3 L. I also just bought a 23ft safari with a equalizer hitch it tows awesome. I just got back from towing from alabama to big bend in texas, over 3000k total miles. I got the tow package and a prodogy controller. Not once did i feel like it didn't have enough power, even in big bend. I also got 13.4 MPG towing over that 3000 miles, The truck rides very smooth, not once did i feel like i needed a bigger truck. Would i buy a 25 ft with this setup? Absolutely.

I also get 20.8 mpg without towing, that is city and hiway and i live in a very hilly area. i'm very happy with it so far. I figure i'll be breaking 21 when it is totally broken in. I drove with the wind and rain against us on rt 10 in texas, never was it a problem. Zero white knuckle driving. Very very nice truck so far. (It's about time GM) The only thing i will do is put on a second trans cooler if i can, i was hitting 175 degrees or so sometimes. Not sure if that is bad but i'd rather have it in the 150's.

With a 6.0 it would have plenty of power IMO, without riding like a 3/4 ton. Of course the extra weight of a 3/4 might make you feel more secure, but it will also hurt the ride, power and mileage. This is JMO, there are much more experienced towers in here than i am.
Is this 2wd or 4wd.Also is this hand calculated or from the DIC . My DIC cosistantly shows 2MPG better than actual , some are acurate . You're at the high side of EPA esimates , good for you.
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Old 04-01-2007, 09:03 AM   #87
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Thanks for the udate on how your new truck is pulling.

I have not pulled any thing yet with my 2007 Sierra. I did not buy it as a TV, but I have since gotten bit by the Airstream bug.

More important, my wife has also been bitten.
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Old 04-01-2007, 10:03 AM   #88
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Tow Vehicle

I purchased a new 2006 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Duramax/Allison, fully loaded. The drive train on this truck is great. The rest of the truck, mainly fit and finish leave a lot to be desired. After having 4 new Ford pickups (and putting almost 100k on each one) only two of them required very minor warranty work (sliding rear window rattle and tranny cooler fitting leak). I'd wait and look at the new 2008 Ford Super Duty. With the number of miles that I'm putting on this truck pulling my AS, I'm worry that the warranty will expire and something major will occur and based upon my recent experiences with GM, they won"t "show any love" and make it right.
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:11 PM   #89
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[Is this 2wd or 4wd.Also is this hand calculated or from the DIC . My DIC cosistantly shows 2MPG better than actual , some are acurate . You're at the high side of EPA esimates , good for you.]


It is a 2wd with the locking rear end. I did the mileage twice on the trip by hand and it was right on, i didn't trust it either. lol I also did it after my first oil change and it was correct.
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:31 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTruck
Thanks for the udate on how your new truck is pulling.

I have not pulled any thing yet with my 2007 Sierra. I did not buy it as a TV, but I have since gotten bit by the Airstream bug.

More important, my wife has also been bitten.
You have an absolutely awesome national park in your state. (Big Bend National Park) I haven't seen yellowstone, grand canyon, or any of the great ones (yet) but this one is beautiful. We also got bit by the airstream bug. This was our first trip, and the only thing i wrecked was the blackwater cap, it came loose and must have dragged. I can't wait for our next trip.
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Old 04-01-2007, 10:12 PM   #91
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Big Bend is amazing. You picked the right time to go. Summer can be pretty hot.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:43 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by ticki2
Is this 2wd or 4wd.Also is this hand calculated or from the DIC . My DIC cosistantly shows 2MPG better than actual , some are acurate . You're at the high side of EPA esimates , good for you.
I don't understand when folks make this statement. I have seen this several times before and I am trying to understand the basis for this statement. You don't believe what the DIC gives you in mpg, yet you believe the odometer to be correct for "hand calculations"?
There are some sophisticated algorithms used to develop the data in the DIC.
Why do you mistrust some of the data but believe other data points to be accurate?
Please explain?
(NHTSA allows up to 5% error for odometers…)

I am curious, thanx, Bill
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:20 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by BillTex
I don't understand when folks make this statement. I have seen this several times before and I am trying to understand the basis for this statement. You don't believe what the DIC gives you in mpg, yet you believe the odometer to be correct for "hand calculations"?
There are some sophisticated algorithms used to develop the data in the DIC.
Why do you mistrust some of the data but believe other data points to be accurate?
Please explain?
(NHTSA allows up to 5% error for odometers…)

I am curious, thanx, Bill
The algorithms are based on assuptions of particular conditions at any given time , and there is no way to calibrate any of these measurments. On mine the DIC is off because it is not measuring the gal. used correctly . I consistantly put in more fuel at fill up than the DIC says has been used , thus throwing the MPG off. I have asked many techs if they knew of a way to calibrate the DIC and so far nobody does. The use of power tunners will also throw off the DIC and show much better milage than actual.

The odometer is a simple device that is measuring RPM . It will be off if gearing or tire size has been changed . It can also be off because it is not calibrated correctly . Once you determine if , or how far , the odometer is off( with GPS or other means), you can use simple math to make the correction. There are also tunners that will do this.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:04 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ticki2
The algorithms are based on assuptions of particular conditions at any given time , and there is no way to calibrate any of these measurments. On mine the DIC is off because it is not measuring the gal. used correctly . I consistantly put in more fuel at fill up than the DIC says has been used , thus throwing the MPG off. I have asked many techs if they knew of a way to calibrate the DIC and so far nobody does. The use of power tunners will also throw off the DIC and show much better milage than actual.

The odometer is a simple device that is measuring RPM . It will be off if gearing or tire size has been changed . It can also be off because it is not calibrated correctly . Once you determine if , or how far , the odometer is off( with GPS or other means), you can use simple math to make the correction. There are also tunners that will do this.
Hmmm…I always assumed odometers measured distance traveled not rpm? I also assumed a certain amount of error was a given due to the fact that there is a certain amount of loss when not traveling a straight line (differential compensation), tire wear, and normal gauge error. Does this mean that if I sit in my driveway and rev the engine I will rack up miles on the trucks odometer?
Doesn’t atmospheric pressure effect just how many gallons you can fit in that tank each time you fill it?
What about gauge error of the pump?
My GPS based On-Star is remarkably accurate to my DIC odometer. Holy smokes, does this mean my entire truck is out of spec?
Should we have our DIC’s NIST certified?

OK-all in jest, but seriously, I have owned 4 vehicles with DIC, and have never found more that a few tenths difference in the mpg versus “hand calculations.” Which, at least in my case, I would assume has far more opportunity for error than some computer…
Truth is, the DIC is fairly sophisticated, there are many factors that affect your mpg, and trying to justify any of it by “hand calculation” is redundant and no more accurate…there is too much error built into this equation.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:59 AM   #95
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Silly me, and I actually thought you wanted an explanation.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:15 PM   #96
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There are a number of ways of arriving at an odometer reading. Exactly which algorithm is in place on a given vehicle is almost certainly proprietary. Any guesses made as to how a given vehicle calculates distance will likely remain a guess.

ticki2's posts on the subject make sense to me, FWIW.
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:03 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by RedSHED
There are a number of ways of arriving at an odometer reading. Exactly which algorithm is in place on a given vehicle is almost certainly proprietary. Any guesses made as to how a given vehicle calculates distance will likely remain a guess.

ticki2's posts on the subject make sense to me, FWIW.
As long as one understands there is always some gauge error built into the equation. Whether you are assuming the gallons used, the miles traveled, or any other data generated by the DIC (or any gauge, even analogue). This would mean that the number you arrive at has inherent inaccuracy. One would need NIST certified gauges in a controlled (laboratory environment) to arrive at accurate numbers.
That was my point; you are really splitting hairs when you assume that your "hand calculations" (I always try to use my "head calculations") are more precise than the DIC.
In either case, you have inaccurate data, all these gauges have error. I guess you choose the inaccuracy you are most comfortable with…

FWIW;
How can an algorithm be proprietary? Can they be ® or ©?

In mathematics, computing, linguistics, and related disciplines, an algorithm is a procedure (a finite set of well-defined instructions) for accomplishing some task which, given an initial state, will terminate in a defined end-state. The computational complexity and efficient implementation of the algorithm are important in computing, and this depends on suitable data structures.
Proprietary indicates that a party, or proprietor, exercises private ownership, control or use over an item of property, usually to the exclusion of other parties.
A party may have interests which are similar to proprietary interests in relation to certain types of information (e.g. a creative literary work, or software), which is the subject of certain laws, such as copyright, patents or trademarks. One such way in which this manner is speech is often used is in reference to proprietary software.
Proprietary components are components that are unique to a specific manufacturer, and do not conform to preset standards.
The last sentence is key… an algorithm by definition is does conform to a very definite set of standards!

Enough mental masturbation for today,
Bill
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:34 AM   #98
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Go long

Just thought I'd share an observation regarding a recent change in my tow vehicle...I went from 133" wheelbase to 160.5" and boy what a difference!

My prior TV was a 1st generation Cummins standard cab long bed pickup that easily handled my 25' SS with the only complaint being the occasional sway or wiggle when passing (or being passed by semis). I had convinced myself that this was due in part to the relatively high CG because of the 4x4 stance and the somewhat short wheelbase.

The new TV is latest generation Cummins, 4x4 long bed, but 4-doors...and a whole lot longer!

The hitch is actually 1/2" higher than the previous, same equal-i-zer (didn't even change the head attach point), same rolling diameter LR "E" tires on both (and both run at 65psi front/55psi rear) and the difference in stability is awesome to say the least.

If given the choice, definitely go 3/4 ton and get the longest vehicle you can tolerate. Mine isn't a grocery getter and my garage is already filled with other toys so length/height wasn't a limitation.

I may be "slightly under-utilizing" the new truck with my A/S but the excess capacity (and WB) means a much more relaxed trip. So much so, that last week's 450 mile jaunt to E. TX was actually very relaxing and I found myself not hurrying to the destination just to get off the road...the journey was indeed fun!

Marc
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