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Old 01-22-2014, 04:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe View Post
Steve, Mr UK Toad,

You will probably be able to read your transmission temperatures ( if you'd like that), and a whole lot more, if you get an in-expensive SCAN GAUGE II:

http://www.scangaugecanada.com/

I have it in the SPRINTER and consider it the best single device on my rig. I drive the truck to it.

Sergei

Incidentally, I have noted that the transmission fluid temperature on my truck more or less exactly mimics the coolant temperature at all times, if this is of any help to people.

Sergei,

I have a Scangauge and it's a really useful tool; it's how I track the engine temperatures. The problem is that the cheapskates at Toyota have ditched the temperature sensor in the transmission for a simple good/bad switch, that is, I'll get a warning on the dash if the oil's too hot (no mention of what's too hot, naturally) but of course the Scanguage can't read that. I can get the local Toyota dealer to put a proper sensor in place of the switch and the onboard computer may be able to deal with it. Failing that I'm looking at an additional dial.

Toyota cheaped out on a number of items in the 2011 LE model, including the automatic light sensor. That must have saved them all of $20 a unit

Thanks for the heads up about the engine temperature and transmission temperature relationship.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:03 PM   #30
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But a recommendation from Canam sounds like the best path forward to me.
That get's my vote!

Can-AM installed an inexpensive Hayden #405 Ultra transmission cooler on my Traverse. A cheap external tranny cooler is FAR superior to a "built in" cooler. We don't live in the hottest of climes, but in the summer hauling our 6000 pounder (loaded) up HWY 400/11 the tranmission temperature has never exceeded 190 degrees F at ANY time. Don't over think it; just buy a competent cooler and get it installed.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:41 PM   #31
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But a recommendation from Canam sounds like the best path forward to me.
Several people mentioned this. I would not have the stones to attempt this project without having conferred substantially with Andy! It was his piece in Airstream Life that got me going. I have exchanged many emails with Andy over Hitches, custom receiver mods, suspension mods, trans cooler. I almost feel guilty for bugging him. Gotta tell you fellas, he's a real gentlemen when it comes to helping others. If I lived within 1000 miles I would have drive straight to his shop!

That said, he initially didn't feel a cooler was needed because A) in Canada they don't need them, and B) he knows a guy in Arizona with my setup and has towed all summer with no issue. Ok, I do take that as one good data point, BUT, BUT, BUT, at my house 117F is not rare. Anywhere we want to go will involve long grades over passes that begin at 3000 and head right up to 8000 or so. When I saw that the trans temp was 199F on a 80F day, with NO TRAILER, I had to think a cooler was in my future in spite of the one data point. (NOTE: Now however, some new understanding is sinking in where the radiator is doing some trans cooling? I may be jumped the gun about how ambient temp will affect trans temp.)

So fear not, I prevail on Andy as much as my conscious will allow! There's a huge business opportunity in California for a "West Coast Version" of Andy T.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:15 PM   #32
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Very good suggestions above as to research. Same transmission in other models, etc.

As to ATF it is likely the car is already a synthetic-spec fluid. Note also PSF spec and keep those specs handy as aftermarket premium fluids need to meet them.

As to downstream coolers (note in my above post that bypass cold fluid) look more closely to police-spec pieces. Since the 1950's, very high performance cars, police and fleet (taxi) often ahd special parts for them alone (or may have been part of a "HD suspension" option, etc).

The police market is highly competitive. Michigan State Police has run performance testing for decades (articles online). Cars a few years into production often have chnages that benefit the double-the-odometer actual wear these cars see (much of it to do with extended idling).

I'll see if I can't find something in a quick search.

.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:04 PM   #33
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Dodge Charger police cars: burning up the track (2011-2014)

Dodge Charger_Pursuit_Upfitters_Guide.pdf


2011 police spec


Severe duty engine cooling, transmission cooling, steering fluid cooling


Original is at Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages


Part or assembly numbers are what is needed. Can take awhile onine, but someone may know.

The FLEET department at a regionally large dealership would be my start as they can also cross-reference engine/transmission specific applications across vehicle lines.

.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:41 PM   #34
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The Fleet dept no. Is 1 800 999-fleet
Try them, looks interesting.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Dodge Charger police cars: burning up the track (2011-2014)

Dodge Charger_Pursuit_Upfitters_Guide.pdf


2011 police spec


Severe duty engine cooling, transmission cooling, steering fluid cooling


Original is at Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages


Part or assembly numbers are what is needed. Can take awhile onine, but someone may know.

The FLEET department at a regionally large dealership would be my start as they can also cross-reference engine/transmission specific applications across vehicle lines.

.
My goodness! Thank you, Slowmover. That's some serious info there. I will study it carefully. Looks rich with specifics.

So many helpful comments from you guys! If I haven't thanked you specifically, let me cover it now - - it's all helpful for a guy that hasn't busted a knuckle under a car in 40 years! (Well, ok, there was a big bruise I got trying to take my old EQ hitch off the Airstream last week, Pull, pull, pull....slip! SLAM! OUCH!) Still gets in the way of typing.) My wife is beginning to think I am nuts.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:32 PM   #36
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That said, [Andy T.] initially didn't feel a cooler was needed because A) in Canada they don't need them, and B) he knows a guy in Arizona with my setup and has towed all summer with no issue.
Woha! Are you sure Andy wasn't referring to an supplementary OIL cooler? I know he doesn't think oil coolers are all that necessary for most folks. But a transmission cooler is essential -- they are two different things.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:19 PM   #37
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Woha! Are you sure Andy wasn't referring to an supplementary OIL cooler? I know he doesn't think oil coolers are all that necessary for most folks. But a transmission cooler is essential -- they are two different things.
Yikes! Now I Really am worried. Maybe I misread his comment. Thanks Garfield, I will check immediately.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:29 AM   #38
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I believe the engine already has one. High rpm DOHC engines is at about the design point where one needs to be able to keep sump temps constant (all fluids should be measured at sump, this is the industry standard).
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:43 PM   #39
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Follow-up data on GMC tranny temp

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
I see 190-210 when towing my 25 FB on the flat, with outside temp in the 90-100 degree range. When climbing mountains in Colorado, the tranny temp climbs steadily. I pull over and let it cool at 235. I don't have any solid basis for that 235 number.

I have a 2010 Yukon Denali 6.2 liter engine with 6 sp. transmission. The owner's manual doesn't say how hot is too hot, but it does say that the temp should be in the 160-200 degree range when checking the transmission fluid level. My independent mechanic says he found a reference that says the car will post the warning message at 266 degrees.
This thread has run its course, but I recently got a tidbit of info about the temperatures in my vehicle. I emailed GM (what a concept!) and asked them if the coolant and tranny temps I was seeing is normal. They asked for my VIN, and then sent me a table of temps for my Yukon. These are the points at which the engine fans go to half and full speed, based on air conditioner pressure, engine coolant temp, engine oil temp, and transmission fluid temp. For the trans fluid, the fans go to half speed at 253 F, and full speed at 257 F. Higher than I would have thought. The warning message TRANSMISSION HOT IDLE ENGINE comes at 270 F.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:03 AM   #40
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X2

POI....The GM PCM will go into 'limp' mode if the trans temp gets over 270*.

Pay attention to the DIC and you'll stay out of trouble.

Our 06 2500 Burb 8.1 stays at 150-160 when towing.



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Old 02-03-2015, 06:17 PM   #41
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Many manufacturers use idiot gauges because consumers too often do not know what the values mean, take advice from others with the same problem, and drive the dealers nuts trying to placate them.

I've seen a popular "tranny temp" chart on the Internet which shows a tranny will die in about 20 miles at the temps cited above. Of course, that chart is old and without documentation. But it's still widely cited as fact.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:48 PM   #42
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I had a similar chart waaaayyy back when I was in school. The 20 minute failure was at above 300* as I recall. However, there have been 6 generations of trans fluid since then. For example Dexron VI for GM and similar for Mercron and Mopar. With today's fluids, I wouldn't even install an additional external cooler unless I saw consistent and regular temps above 220*. A once in a while spike while towing, is nothing to worry about. And the "idiot" gauges have nothing to do with anything anymore. All the modern vehicles will intervene and prevent sudden temp spikes with trans shifts and high speed fan activation, and if you ignore things, they go into limp mode to protect themselves.

That being said, you won't hurt anything with an additional cooler, unless you live in the far, far north (arctic). Overcooling (for the vast majority of us) is as much a myth as is "250* is too hot and damage is being done". Modern trans fluids are quite remarkable.
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