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Old 08-17-2004, 09:31 PM   #15
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Avalanches and Suburbans

The 2500 Chevy Avalanche IS the same truck as the Suburban, minus a cutout and open bed in the rear... Same frame, wheelbase, engine, axles etc.. Only real choice to make is whether you need closed in rear storage or seats of Suburban v. open pickup bed of an Avalanche...

As one who is occasionally tow-power challenged with 1500 Suburban pulling 5500# 25' trailer (ours is pre-Vortec and only 200hp max..) I'd echo endorsements for bigger engine or even diesel to improve both power and fuel mileage... (Ours drops from 15mpg empty to 10mpg when trailer follows us down the road..)

All the "wheelbase" comments are valid as well. We used to pull 24' trailer behind short-wheelbase full size Ford Bronco, and that was truly a thrilll on windy day with trucks passing on freeway... Suburban and longer wheelbase made HUUGE difference.

Despite some opposition, Ford Excursion has length and power to tow yours pretty well also. Now is good time to consider late model used trucks instead of new, as $2+/gallon gas is panicking some owners into selling quickly, and good deals might be had for a lot less than new...

John McG
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Old 08-17-2004, 09:55 PM   #16
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Hold on guys. Don't put down the Titan until you're tried it. I'm pulling a 31 ft Classic with a Titan Crew Cab and it is great, even in the mountains. It has 378 lbs of torque at 3500 RPM and about 90% of that at 2500 RPM. I traded in a 6.8L F250 that couldn't match the Titan in power or gas mileage.
I'm not saying it is the greatest tow vehicle on the road, but it's not far behind.
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:25 PM   #17
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Titan vs Avalanche vs Ford etc...

The Nissanusa website allows a comparison of three other trucks - Titan beats all up to full size. The Titan seems to have the power.

It looks like it comes down to weight and wheelbase.I would need to trade that and (the safety it offers) for what is an easier truck for city driving, and offers more luxury without going for a lot of mods...
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:45 PM   #18
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The Dark Side of Wheelbases..

As long as dialogue still bouncing back and forth, there is a downside to having nice long frame and wheelbase for stability: Suburbans and Excursions and Avalanches are real difficult to maneuver in tight quarters, or to make U-Turns... Some have 4 wheel steering, though I'd be leery of that option, but regular truck will turn around in street width, while Suburban needs a few tries back and forth. With 34' of house in back and triple axles, There may be some tight corners in places that you just can't get into or out of... You'd have to be a lifetime member of the "Gimme a Pullthrough" campers club...

John McG
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gened
Hold on guys. Don't put down the Titan until you're tried it. I'm pulling a 31 ft Classic with a Titan Crew Cab and it is great, even in the mountains. It has 378 lbs of torque at 3500 RPM and about 90% of that at 2500 RPM. I traded in a 6.8L F250 that couldn't match the Titan in power or gas mileage.
I'm not saying it is the greatest tow vehicle on the road, but it's not far behind.
Well there was your first problem...you had an F-250!

Here are some specs I pulled off the Nissanusa site and the Chevy site:

Armada...final drive gear 3.357
Suburban 3.73 or optional 4.10


Armada wheel bas 123.xx inches
Suburban 130.xx inches


Armada 5.6L 305hp@4900rpm
Suburban (3/4) 6.0L 335HP@5200rpm


Armada torque 385@3600rpm
Suburban 6.0L 375 @4000


Armada tow capacity 6100 or
9100lbs with no gear change just a tow package?

Suburban tow capacity
9600lbs 4x4 w/ 4.10 gears or 9100 w/availible quadrasteer

Looks to me like the Armada has the meat of a 1/2ton with a short wheelbase.

Now let's look at the Titan

305 hp@ 4900rpm
379 torque@ 3600rpm

Not bad. Also has a much longer wheel base than the Armada.

What I am unclear about is how they say that their final drive calculations are similar to 3.73s and 4.10s. I smell some funny numbers game here.

So, compared to a Suburban, the closest thing would be the crew cab Titan with the big tow package. I'd just want to know how they come up with the "similar to a 3.73 or 4.10" statements. If that part was on the up and up, the Titan might be a good tow vehicle too if you are looking for a pickup.
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMcG
As long as dialogue still bouncing back and forth, there is a downside to having nice long frame and wheelbase for stability: Suburbans and Excursions and Avalanches are real difficult to maneuver in tight quarters, or to make U-Turns... Some have 4 wheel steering, though I'd be leery of that option, but regular truck will turn around in street width, while Suburban needs a few tries back and forth. With 34' of house in back and triple axles, There may be some tight corners in places that you just can't get into or out of... You'd have to be a lifetime member of the "Gimme a Pullthrough" campers club...

John McG
If you're willing to shell out the $$ for Quadrasteer, a few folks here on the forum have it and say it's the best invention since the wheel itself. I can undertand the hesitation, but folks felt the same way when the horse was taken away from the carrage and the internal combustion engine was introduced. Same with fuel injection, computer engine management, etc. At some point it's a given that as with anything mechanical, upkeep and repair continues to cost more and more. However, if one has the means, this is one of those things that has really made a difference from what I've heard and read here. Me, I didn't have the extra bucks to lay down for it, even with the GM rebates on the '04s.

But I'll say this...coming from the camp of cars/trucks with smaller wheel bases, I'll take the u-turn hardships and all every day of the week and 2x on Sunday to have the piece of mind and stability of towing with a longer wheelbase. I've seen a few folks that can't handle it and I have seen a few folks really do well with it. To me, the end justifies the means. Just my .02.
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atokad
The Nissanusa website allows a comparison of three other trucks - Titan beats all up to full size. The Titan seems to have the power.

It looks like it comes down to weight and wheelbase.I would need to trade that and (the safety it offers) for what is an easier truck for city driving, and offers more luxury without going for a lot of mods...
If you look at the titan 150 crew cab, I see it as load carrying capacity & weight. Your trailer hitch weight, fiberglas bed cover, hitch ball, etc. will come to 1200 lbs against 1585 load capacity. 385 lbs before weight distribution to the front wheels is not a lot. The extra weight of my gm 2500 4x4 is about 700 lbs vs. the titan 150 4x4 with bed cover, gas, & hitch comparable.

Just a few thoughts, 5 speed transmission (bottom end power & top end mileage), 5yr/60,000 powertrain warranty, 17" wheels, 4 wheel disc brakes ( gm is going back to rear drums), 9200 tow capacity, & price beats gm & ford according to what I have read.

You have to buy a 2500 now to get gm's heavy transmission, steel drive shaft, & heavy rearend. I doubt that nissan has under engineered their drive train. Also, I have to worry that when the teflon starts wearing off of my gm pistons & they start to knock, I will lose $5000 resale unless I can find a gm diehard.

I have a gm 2500hd 4x4 6.0, a ford econ 150, & a 2001 camry in the driveway. I am only partial to what works. Frankly, the japanese trucks are coming faster than I thought they could but, that is gm & ford letting them do it.
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Old 08-18-2004, 09:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gened
Hold on guys. Don't put down the Titan until you're tried it. I'm pulling a 31 ft Classic with a Titan Crew Cab and it is great, even in the mountains. It has 378 lbs of torque at 3500 RPM and about 90% of that at 2500 RPM. I traded in a 6.8L F250 that couldn't match the Titan in power or gas mileage.
I'm not saying it is the greatest tow vehicle on the road, but it's not far behind.
Do you drive at 3500 RPM the whole time your towing? I doubt my Suburban has seen 3500 rpm more then 20 times in the year I have owned it. 378 lb fit is nice and all but its at a very high RPM. My 88 454 Suburban makes 385lbft of torque at 1600 RPM. I drive at 1600 rpm every time I start it. Nice flat torque cure up to 2500 RPM. I set the crusie on 65 and it's sitting right there in the torque band. Most normal grades I don't even loose 1.5 mph when I hit them.

It's a Great motor but when dealing with these sort of weights it's not where it needs to be. Yes it's best in class and that class is HALF TON. It's not best in class pulling against any of the big 3 diesels or 6.0 and above gas 3/4 ton. That truck is over rated for the weight they are listed.
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Old 08-18-2004, 09:47 AM   #23
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My big complaint with the Nissan is not the motor It's the platform and that rear axle. I bet it has a 4.10 and that's good but I also bet it's 8.5 inches or less and thats BAD. Nissan and Toyota are not affriad of putting in high gears. My toytoa 4Runner is 4.10 if it was a carb truck it would have had a 4.30. Nissan I owned was also 4.10. My Supra was 4.30. The japs will run motors at high RPM without a second throught. You statrt putting some weight in that figure and something has to give.

I think in short order we are going to hear about a lot of blown rear ends in Nissans that are trying to pull the kind of weights they claim they are capable of. Toyota is the same way. They don't make a axle anybigger ring gear then 8.4 in their normal vehciles. To get any bigger you have to go to their big trucks like the Hino.

At that point they will either build a bigger rear axle or they will back off those weght figures.
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59toaster
Do you drive at 3500 RPM the whole time your towing? I doubt my Suburban has seen 3500 rpm more then 20 times in the year I have owned it. 378 lb fit is nice and all but its at a very high RPM. My 88 454 Suburban makes 385lbft of torque at 1600 RPM. I drive at 1600 rpm every time I start it. Nice flat torque cure up to 2500 RPM. I set the crusie on 65 and it's sitting right there in the torque band. Most normal grades I don't even loose 1.5 mph when I hit them.

It's a Great motor but when dealing with these sort of weights it's not where it needs to be. Yes it's best in class and that class is HALF TON. It's not best in class pulling against any of the big 3 diesels or 6.0 and above gas 3/4 ton. That truck is over rated for the weight they are listed.
Like I said before, I had a 6.8L F250 gas and it did not have the power that the Titan has. We can throw numbers all day, but the fact is, the Titan gets the job done with a 31 ft. If you compare the cost of the Titan to the the big 3 diesels or 6.0 and above gas, you'll see another big factor to consider. The Titan isn't my choice for a triple axle 34 footer loaded with the belongings of a 4-person family, but it sure will handle the average 28-31 ft better than others with engines close to it's size (5.4 Ford, 5.3 Chevy or 5.7 Dodge). Nuff said!
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JBMcG
As long as dialogue still bouncing back and forth, there is a downside to having nice long frame and wheelbase for stability: Suburbans and Excursions and Avalanches are real difficult to maneuver in tight quarters, or to make U-Turns... Some have 4 wheel steering, though I'd be leery of that option, but regular truck will turn around in street width, while Suburban needs a few tries back and forth. With 34' of house in back and triple axles, There may be some tight corners in places that you just can't get into or out of... You'd have to be a lifetime member of the "Gimme a Pullthrough" campers club...

John McG
Gotta jump in here for a minute... As you all know, I tow a 34' with an Excursion V10. First, let me say that anyone who contemplates pulling ANY 34' Airstream with less than a 3/4 ton truck is asking for problems. I've said many times that my Excursion is, IMHO, the absolute MINIMUM necessary for towing a 34' trailer. BTW, the Excursion has one of the tightest turn radius' available in it's size. It's a pretty responsive truck.

I also have to say that I have yet to get into anywhere that I wasn't able to get out of; there are a couple of members here who have been pleasantly surprised at where the Behemoth has actually been. It may take a couple of minutes to get it where you want it, but it always goes there. The only problem is when the site is so short that it won't accommodate the trailer (but that's not a tow vehicle issue).

Roger
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Old 08-18-2004, 02:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
First, let me say that anyone who contemplates pulling ANY 34' Airstream with less than a 3/4 ton truck is asking for problems.

Roger
I fully agree and might even be so bold as to suggest anything at the 28' or larger as well, particularly in the Classic line of newer coaches.

Having pulled a 25' Safari with the equiv of a 1/2 ton, I can safely say that you're betting the farm on a very unsound hand. Of course what do folks like us that have been there and done that know.
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Old 08-18-2004, 03:07 PM   #27
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bottom line

A lot of controversy on this one - but sounds as if the Titan and Avalance are just too small for my 34'.

I hope I'm wrong.

But for now i'm in the market for fully loaded 3/4 crew cab short bed...
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Old 08-18-2004, 05:18 PM   #28
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under drive

got a us gear under drive for chev auto used 1000 miles 1/2 price if anyone can use it. had it on 91 chev van.
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