Toyota Tundra as a Tow Vehicle

[Phoenix]

There are lots of photos and tips on brake controller installations in Tundras on www.tundratalk.net. We have a Prodigy mounted in the removable pocket adjacent to the TOW/HAUL button, and all the wires are inside the dash.

The Prodigy and P3 don't have to be mounted horizontally, and can be tilted quite a bit, although I don't recall the recommended maximum angle. Checkout the Tekonsha Web site for more info and/or to download the installation instructions for your specific Tekonsha brake controller.

[pip8688]

We just towed our new AS int 28' from Los Banos to the Bay Area this past weekend. for the guys that know the area, highway 152 coming up toward Gilroy has pretty steep grades. It pulled pretty well. At certain points the tranny needed to shift down to 3rd gear. We were averaging between 55 and 60 going up. We have Reese dual cam that the RV center set up. There was a little bit of bounce up and down. the guy put the second link on them. I am not too familiar with these so I will need to read up. My AS has 950lb tongue weight.

[JDEJV]

Greetings,

This is my first post on this particular forum. I need some advice regarding weight distribution and capacities for my Tundra-Hensley-25FB combination. Thanks in advance for any ideas/experiences you can share.

Here is what I have

2007 Crewmax Limited 2wd with hard tonneau cover
GVWR - 7,000
UVW - 5,415
GAWR - 3,900 (front axle)
GAWR - 4,150 (rear axle)
CCC - 1,585 (this is what I find in Toyota website not in door of truck)
Wheels - 20 Inch Wheels
Family - 4 people for a total of 690 lbs
Cargo - Roughly 300 lbs in bed of truck

2008 Airstream Safari SE 25 FB (twin beds)
GVWR - 7,300
UVW - 5,210
CCC - 1,241

Hensley Arrow Seetings
- Three holes showing in the spring bar
- Bars are tightened to the middle mark (of the three marks )
- Hensley sent me a towing bar with a 2-inch drop
-- We first had the towing bar on the normal position (i.e. droping height on the trailer side), but the trailer nose was pointing down and the Truck back was sagging. We talked to hensley and they asked me to reverse the bar. Now the trailer's tail is slightly tipping down but the truck's back is still sagging some (see picture here http://image82.webshots.com/182/3/21/78/2907321780035585278WbWUKV_fs.jpg )

Results from CAT Scale
Family in car, truck bed loaded with about 250-300 lbs, TT propane gas full, truck's gas tank 1/2 full, water tanks in TT at 1/3 capacity.
Truck Front Axle - 2,940 lbs ( 22% of GCWR)
Truck Rear Axle - 4,560 lbs ( 35% of GCWR, exceeds GAWR for this axle )
Trailer - 5,460 lbs ( 43% of GCWR)
TOTAL - 12,960 lbs


My Conclussion
- I will never be able to meet the 33%, 33%, 33% balance (for front truck axle, rear truck axle, trailer axles respectively) as if I was to achieve that, the 12,960 GCWR would result in 4,320 lbs in each of the truck's axels, exceeding the GAWR for both of these and exceeding as well the 7,000 GVWR of the truck.
- The best I can hope for is perhaps 3,000 lbs and 4,000 lbs in the truck's front and rear axes respectively. This way I stay at the trucks GVWR limit of 7,000 lbs and within GAWR for each axle. This combination would yield a 23%, 30%, 47% distribution.

QUESTIONS FOR ALL THOSE WHO USE THIS CrewMax Limited TV WITH 25, 27 and 28 TTs:
- How did you manage to stay within Tundra's payload, GVWR and GAWR numbers?
- What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks for your comments,
Jose

[Gene]

Jose, if I understand your post, I think the error is that you are trying to balance all the load. A WD hitch should transfer part of the tongue weight to the tow vehicle's front axle, not part of the weight of the entire trailer.

Gene

[rjack]

I have a 2007 Tundra extended cab and a 25' FB...use a load-leveler hitch and never look back...don't overthink it. 12,000 miles last summer and a bunch this summer.

[TouringDan]

Jose

The Tundra is a great tow vehicle, but it is only 1/2 ton and so the limiting factor will be the GVWR of 7,000 lbs and the rear axle weight rating (GAWR). I think that you are wise in seeing how your actual weights compare to the manufacturers gross weight ratings. I am an engineer, so I don't think that it is a good idea to exceed manufacturers' ratings, but I also know that there are some safety allowances in setting the ratings. I hope to not exceed the rear GAWR, but if I do, I want to know about it, so I am aware of it and will make allowances for it in loading and possibly in driving even more defensively than I already do.

I am a little bothered by your numbers as you are 3,000 lbs under the GCWR of 16,000 lbs, yet have exceeded your rear GAWR by 410 lbs. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just bothered. Makes me wonder how many other trailer rigs rolling down the road are exceeding their weight ratings and yet are completely unaware of it. Being aware that we are exceeding the ratings is one thing but let us not stick our head in the sand.

The first thing I recommend is weighing the truck without the trailer, so you can determine your truck weight loaded. You need this to determine your tongue weight. Next, I would leave some stuff home that may be in the back of the truck bed that I don't really need or move it to the rear of the trailer to reduce the weight on the rear axle. Third I would travel with one propane tank empty and with very little fresh water. You can add water when you get to your destination and you don't use much propane unless you are running the furnace a lot.

I notice that your front axle weight is about 1,000 lbs under the rating. Maybe you can adjust your hitch to put more weight on the front axle.

Keep us posted.

Dan

[RMB]

I have a 2005 Toyota 4.7l and a new 23' AS. After 4000 KM through the Rockies, all I can say is "ugh". On the flat its finem, but up any grade, much less mountain switchbacks it has to work very, very hard . This of course means lots of gas and slow speeds up grades - in the range of 25 mph.

Without a trailer attached, I loved the Tundra for is ride but with the trailer: It humps, bounces and walllows over anything less that a smoothly paved road.

I can't get OEM or aftermarket extendable mirrors to help me in traffic and the dealer has no answers to my questions about HD struts or aftermarklet spring add-ons to try and smooth things out...

I'm looking for a new tow vehicle. My Tundra is for sale.

[waltb]

I have a 2010 Tundra, 5.7l, double cab, and tow package. We just returned from 3300 miles up and down the West coast pulling our new 20' Flying Cloud. It pulled great on the flat and through the passes. Mileage was usually in the 12-13 range (17 highway not towing). No problems.

We are new to AS, but so far so good.

[Action]

RMB,

What is the tow rating with the 4.7l? I believe that was the largest engine available for that year. I also believe that year and model is a little light for the 6000 # GVWR of your trailer.

>>>>>>>>>Action

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by JDEJV

...I need some advice regarding weight distribution and capacities for my Tundra-Hensley-25FB combination...

lots of good info jose' including the questions...

-staying within payload

simply put, if the tongue weight AND truck gear and people exceed the payload...

there is NOT an easy solution.

traveling without water doesn't solve that (in some trailers FULL water lowers tongue weight)...

and carrying water improves stability of the trailer, along with UTILITY of the trailer.

one can ADD another leaf spring or timbren bumpers or air bags.

these things don't RAISE the payload but do help car the extra load.


the 33%/33%/33% is largely OLD wisdom for the old days of car towing...

and primarily useful for SINGLE AXLE trailers towed by SOFTLY SPRUNG CARS...

trucks don't need that TOTAL equalizing since the bed IS meant to carry load.
_________

the GOAL of w/d is to RESTORE FRONT AXLE LOADS to the UNhitched values, for steering control.

so the CAT scale info shows 2940 lb on the front,

but that figure is only useful AFTER knowing the UNhitched front axle load.

this is just a WAG and example but lets assume the front axle is 3300 lbs UNhitched....

the 2900 lb reading means MORE TENSION on the w/d jacks to move MORE load onto the front axle....

i suspect that the current adjustments are TOO LIGHT on the w/d bars.

with a 2wheel drive toy' truck the 2 inch drop MIGHT be correct

but with more tension to RAISE the connection.

we need to SEE the set up to guess at this

((or post the measurement of the receiver box HEIGHT unhitched))

((your pictures is NOT accessible so we cannot SEE the rig))

the a/s weight specs u posted are useful,

but you need to know the TONGUE weight (not the estimate provided by a/s)

carrying LESS lpgas won't help much

since the STEEL TANK is heavy even without 30 lbs of gas.

what w/d bars do you purchase for the haha?

they SHOULD be 1000 lb bars,

lesser rated bars will not allow enough tensioning...

to adequately REload the truck front axle with a 25 foot trailer tongue weight.
_____________

the issue with MOST 1/2 trucks is usually payload limitations

but most 25s can be set up to fit 1/2 trucks...

as long as the bed is not full o'rocks.

imo staying UNDER the gross COMBINED weight rating

is more important than the payload (IF the TIRES are adequate)

cheers
2air'

[slowmover]

. . just as the gross VEHICLE weight rating is more important than the weight maximum of either axle; as axle maximums add up to more than GVWR. As 2Air indicates, the best hitch rigging has respected the small pieces (axle scale readings) against the large pieces (GCWR & GVWR).

IMO, an "empty" trailer has both full water and propane, etc.

[rjack]

We have a 25' FB and a 2007 Tundra 5.7 gas..and the advantage of not being technically conversant...we just go (and go and go). Last year 15,000 sm, mostly in the mountains..using a leveler hitch, full propane, and 1/4 tank fresh water. As the AS is designed to do, and does this well! rjack

[zimchu]

we tow a 2010 25fb flying cloud with a doublecab 5.7 l tundra, it works great, use a reese wd antisway hitch setup, drive up to 70 mph with plenty of power to spare, I think dry weight of our trailer is about 1000 less than yours, at 5600lbs.

I like to tow with a full fresh water tank, since tank sits over axles the trailer feels a bit more "grounded" while towing. I find the standard mirrors that come with tow package are fine for towing

we got ave. of 11.5 mpg on our 2000 mile trip thru vermont and adirondacks a few weeks ago

chu

[Action]

rjack,

If you were technically conversant, you would know that depending on model your 2nd generation Tundra with the biggest V-8 offered, is equipped to tow between 8500 and over 10,000 pounds. You would also know fully loaded your Safari maxes out at 7300 #'s GVWR. So given the combo you have way more than enough capacity to tow your Special Edition. You are not even close to the edge of capacity.

However you are traveling in bliss and you don't know that!

So I say to you, happy trails!

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Gene]

No doubt in our minds the 2nd generation Tundra is a very good tow vehicle, but lately we have an issue with finish. Around the grill is a "chrome" part. I have noticed it is pitting badly, something I have not seen on previous Toyotas. About 2 weeks ago I was washing the truck and when the water hit this, it tore. It's a shiny plastic covering and now has a more than one inch gash in it plus a large bubble. An internet search shows this has happened before, though I can't tell how often. A letter has gone to Toyota North America's president about this.

The paint does seem to scratch easier though Toyota claims it to be somewhat self healing. The interior finish doesn't seem to be holding up as well as previous Toyotas either. And the seats aren't comfortable—we have put cushions on them.

Much has been written about how Toyota has cheapened its brand in pursuit of more profit and concentration on dominating the world market. While the mechanical guts of the truck remain strong and there have been many improvements in that area compared to the 1st generation Tundras, it isn't the same company it was 10 years ago. Since they have been burnt lately with multiple recalls, Toyota may regain its previous reliability. With GM stripped of many financial liabilities and bad executives, they are poised to challenge Toyota. This competition should be good for consumers.

Gene

Photo isn't all too good because of reflections, and some of the specks on the "chrome" are pits and some are raindrops that showed up as I took the picture.

[rashton]

I have read this whole thread. I am thinking about a tundra for new tow veh. we have a safari fb 27. looking at the airstream spec table I see the 25fb is tongue 837 7300 gross the 27 is tongue 791 gross 7600. the common opinios seems to be 25 ok 27 no I don't see too much difference in these trailers . there are two of us no dogs and we don't haul much in the bed. we now have a chev.3/4 diesel and my wife hates it!

[Gene]

rash',

The tongue weights that Airstream gives change from time to time, even in the same year or are different in different places (brochures and website), so you only use them as a guess. Adding to it will be propane and spare tire. The best way to know the tongue wt. is to weigh it. The Owners' Manual tells you how with a bathroom scale.

If I recall correctly, in '08 they gave the tongue wt. of a 25' Safari FB as about 100 lbs. less, so who really knows until they weigh 'em?

Having towed the 25' Safari FB for almost 3 years with the Tundra, I am confident it could easily tow the 27'. I didn't believe that in 2007 or probably 2008, but experience tells me the Tundra is a solid tow vehicle with plenty of power to spare and adequate payload. It does suck enormous amounts of gas and if you can sedate your wife for a couple of years, hopefully mileage will get better with the new regs.

Watch out for the fake "chrome" however. Airstream has fake chrome too.

Gene

[wolf146]

I have a 5.7 l 2007 Tundra. We tow a 30 foot classic and just came back from a 6000 mile trip from New Jersey to Colorado and back. I have over 32000 miles on it mostly towing the 30 footer and feel it tows the AS very well. Went up over 12000 foot passes with no problem. Used 4 wheel drive and downshifted often going down those mountains.

I just learned, though, that I can't change my own trans fluid. The dealer has to do it because they need a special tool!! There is not even a dip stick to check on the color or level of the fluid!!! Since we use the Tundra generally to pull the trailer and we put a lot of miles on it I want to know that the fluid is good. I had them change it and all the other fluids that need to be changed at 30000 miles. This is my second Tundra and have been pleased with both of them.

[TouringDan]

rjack

I am sure that you are no where near the GCWR of 16,000 lbs, but I would weigh your rig at a scale to see how close you are to the GVWR of the truck and the GAWR of the rear axle. That is the only way to tell how much margin you have between your actual weights and the weight ratings of your truck and rear axle.

Gene

I have been plesantly surprised at the fuel economy towing with my 08 5.7L Tundra. I get about 13 towing and 18 naked on the road. Not bad considering the weight and massive size of the truck and the power available when needed.
Sorry about your chrome grille finish going south.

Dan

[TerryC]

I just bought a 2010 Tundra Double Cab w/the 5.7, 2 W/D.

Towed yesterday my 2010, 20ft. Flying Cloud. The ride is pretty stiff on concrete roads (California freeways ugh!) The sales people talked me into the TRD package (a truck they had on the lot, better price).

The TRD comes with the off-road-tuned suspension, tow package (increases Max Tow capacity to 10,600 lbs. 1,745 payload capacity as opposed to Max Tow capacity of 8,600 lbs., 1,745 payload). Maybe I didn't need the TRD kit. It sure rides stiff, you know you're in a big truck! I don't know if I like it yet or not!

Keep that in mind if you're looking for a new Tundra!

Side note: This truck ride is stiff when not towing as well. I rode in a friends 2010 D/C, 4.6 4-W/D, before I bought this one and I liked the ride. Hoping the TRD will soften up a bit, I've only got 500 miles on mine.

TerryC.