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Old 07-25-2015, 09:40 AM   #687
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I just ain't a'gonna buy no new truck-
Paid for trumps any increased payload-


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Old 07-25-2015, 02:03 PM   #688
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The "de-contenting" of the Tundra is quite shocking. My friend just purchased a 2015 Tundra, having sold his 2001 with 230,000 miles. We did a brief comparison of my 2010 LTD with his 2015 LTD, and noted the following features that his does not have:

  • folding mirrors-this is a major inconvenience (Q-when the tow package is purchased why doesn't Toyota include tow mirrors???)
  • map pockets on back of front seats
  • second sun visor
  • grab handles on drivers side
  • upper glove box
  • center storage lid does not extend
  • smaller fog lights
These are just the immediate items we noticed. It seems like you would have to go to the Platinum or 1794 (?) model to get the features once found on the LTD.

I may expand my replacement considerations to include Ford/GMC etc. if it the reliability of engines and transmission can be validated.
All those things were included in our 2007 Tundra SR5. Back then, when Toyota was trying to sell the very new 5.7 L. Tundra, there were 2 trim levels (SR5 and Limited) and lots of stuff included with the SR5. It also came with a driver's power seat, though not the passenger seat. Ours has the TRD option and tow package and, surprise, tow mirrors came with the tow package. The vehicle was aimed at contractors and other business users, but I guess they sold them mostly to upper middle income people who wanted a truck to be cool. That seems to be the present way they have gone.

There's no reason for me to buy a new Tundra—gas mileage is still poor (though the 2016 may have a diesel option plus a V6 with turbo, but not enough to tow a medium size Airstream). Ours at 101,000 miles runs perfectly and is going strong. Well, a new truck is always a great thing, but I'm trying to be smart about this. A used one may be a lot better deal. Used prices have been very high, but are starting to come down compared to new, but Toyota used prices are always higher than anyone else.

Toyota always loads lots of options into their vehicles. US manufacturers have done this for generations and one of the nice things about foreign cars long ago was that there were few options and they didn't all come loaded. But Toyota has long acted like a domestic company. They are arrogant, but they make great vehicles. They made their reputation on quality, but others are catching up. GM used to make the best production cars in the world, but they got arrogant too and it took another generation for the party to end. For GM to equal Toyota reliability is good for Toyota people (we have had 7) because competition for a reliable truck is good for prices.

I am old enough so that any vehicle may be my last one. That's a bummer, though I am not so old that I can't buy green bananas. I hope to have some more cool vehicles, but Toyota is not encouraging me to buy one. By the time I'm ready (probably during a recession when prices drop), maybe GM will have caught up. Chrysler products always rate low in reliability and have lower resale. Toyota is reliable, expensive and has very good resale. Ford has a reputation for rushing out products before testing is complete, but the EB seems to be doing well for their owners. Nissan reliability is low, though not as low as Chrysler. Honda doesn't strike me a real truck and sufficient for a medium sized trailer.

One problem I have is feeling safe driving too far from home in a 100,000 mile plus vehicle. I've kept new vehicles up to 145,000 miles ('90 Nissan "base model" pickup) and never been stranded, but I remember 1950's and '60's cars that were made to last 50,000 miles at best.

The payload issue for 1/2 ton trucks has been debated on this Forum for longer than I've been here. So far as I know, no one has followed through on my suggestion amputations would help. When we were making decisions in 2007, we weighed everything we would take in the trailer and the truck. What we found was that we would max out on Tundra payload and we find with the trailer. Since then it seems lots of added things have crept into the trailer. The truck has been pretty constant. We have no indication of any problems. People used to say you should never be above 80% of payload and all other weight ratings. That was unproved conventional wisdom and I haven't seen it lately. Better to be under limits, but there's no proof that is hurts the vehicle to be at maximum. And the door sticker is the most correct number you can get. If the Toyota booklet or internet info included every possible version of the truck, it would be many, many pages long. It can be deceiving and there are usually footnotes explaining variations, but start with the door sticker. If the dealer or you add any options, subtract them from payload.

People get very worried over their truck's payload, but they are over their personal payload. I think that is more important than the truck payload—what is your body's maximum payload and will your chassis, suspension, drive train, break down before your truck does?

Gene
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Old 07-25-2015, 04:00 PM   #689
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I'm not in any hurry to trade. Maybe when the time comes I can find s gently used 2013.
The Avalon is the same way. They had more "stuff" up to 2012. The '13 body style change left off some "stuff" like reclining back seats.


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Old 07-28-2015, 05:59 PM   #690
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Suspension upgrade

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Originally Posted by Gnorts View Post
I had the work done a week before we left on the month-long round trip to the Farmington rally. It was empty when I drove it home. I was immediately aware of the difference in routine suburban driving. The daily driver mode.

Then I loaded all my stuff in it and hung the TT behind it and took off. I notice no difference when towing, but I didn't expect it to perform much better when heavily laden. I did tweak the Reese wd hitch, and that turned out OK. - steering wheels feel more planted.

We've taken numerous unhitched day trips on this outing, and the truck is still full of stuff and the tires are still at max pressure, so I still can't say I've got a good baseline. But just today, we came down to Utah Route 89 from Bryce NP in the rain, and it felt like I was drivin' a big ol' Detroit sedan with good tires. Comfortable and confident.

We'll be home in a week or so, and I look forward to unloading the truck and going for a "test drive." More to come, watch this space.
OK, we're home from our trip and I drove to Seattle and back from Portland yesterday and today. The truck was empty except for my toolbox, and tire pressure was at 35psi. This is the Platinum edition with 20-inch wheels and low-profile 55-series Michelin LTX-MS2's.

The truck's response to small variations is more refined. It doesn't feel as "rubbery" as it did with the stock shocks. Things like expansion joints, bridge approaches, etc. are handled better. I drove around on Seattle's legendary broken streets - lots of old concrete slab paving that has tilted, many areas where there are shallow potholes where the asphalt top coat has come off, etc. etc. and I'm pleased with how it felt.

And the TRD swaybar makes turning corners much more pleasant. Even at low speeds, the truck stays much flatter in turns.

It's still a truck, of course, and a 4WD with the expected higher unsprung weight, but it definitely rides better amd feels more "connected" to the roadway. Not like a Lexus sedan, but pretty dang good for a truck. For a live-axle, leaf-spring rearend and strut frontend, it's probably as good as it gets.

The swaybar is Toyota TRD. The TRD trim level comes with Bilsteins, but they're not the same as the 4600 series I had installed. Supposedly, the difference is exactly what I was after - the ability to handle small variations in pavement and keep all that unsprung weight from wanting to bounce over the little bumps.

Parts cost about $600. The swaybar and rear shocks are an easy DIY install, but the front shocks are inside the coil springs, which involves quite a bit of disassembly and some big tools.

I'm happy with the result. I'm glad I did it.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:12 AM   #691
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Thanks Gnorts! I've been waiting for your comments. Sounds good to me.
Do you think they helped with handling the load or smoothing out the ride, while you pulled your AS?
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:26 PM   #692
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I have thought about ditching my factory 20" wheels and getting 18" wheels so I can get load range E tires.


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Old 07-29-2015, 09:43 PM   #693
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Originally Posted by Gnorts View Post
OK, we're home from our trip and I drove to Seattle and back from Portland yesterday and today. The truck was empty except for my toolbox, and tire pressure was at 35psi. This is the Platinum edition with 20-inch wheels and low-profile 55-series Michelin LTX-MS2's.



The truck's response to small variations is more refined. It doesn't feel as "rubbery" as it did with the stock shocks. Things like expansion joints, bridge approaches, etc. are handled better. I drove around on Seattle's legendary broken streets - lots of old concrete slab paving that has tilted, many areas where there are shallow potholes where the asphalt top coat has come off, etc. etc. and I'm pleased with how it felt.



And the TRD swaybar makes turning corners much more pleasant. Even at low speeds, the truck stays much flatter in turns.



It's still a truck, of course, and a 4WD with the expected higher unsprung weight, but it definitely rides better amd feels more "connected" to the roadway. Not like a Lexus sedan, but pretty dang good for a truck. For a live-axle, leaf-spring rearend and strut frontend, it's probably as good as it gets.



The swaybar is Toyota TRD. The TRD trim level comes with Bilsteins, but they're not the same as the 4600 series I had installed. Supposedly, the difference is exactly what I was after - the ability to handle small variations in pavement and keep all that unsprung weight from wanting to bounce over the little bumps.



Parts cost about $600. The swaybar and rear shocks are an easy DIY install, but the front shocks are inside the coil springs, which involves quite a bit of disassembly and some big tools.



I'm happy with the result. I'm glad I did it.

35 psi is way to low for towing.Look at your sidewall and find the max.Bump it up to max when towing.


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Old 07-29-2015, 09:46 PM   #694
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Toyota Tundra as a Tow Vehicle

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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
I have thought about ditching my factory 20" wheels and getting 18" wheels so I can get load range E tires.


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I have load range E 20's on my F350.Michelin makes them.As long as your wheels have a high enough load rating, you may only need tires.


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Old 07-29-2015, 10:26 PM   #695
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Door stickers do not reflect any "modifications" done by the dealership to enhance profit - undercoating, fancier radio, window coloring, running boards, fancier wheels or tires etc. Some of these items add weight to the vehicle and thus reduce the real payload by that amount. So 50 pounds of undercoating reduced your actual payload capacity by 50 pounds.

The reality is that even the door sticker needs to be checked for accuracy by taking the vehicle across a set of CAT scales (certified accurate) with a full fuel tank and no driver inside the cab when weighing the vehicle. That scale report is then the real starting point for all future calculations as the front axle and rear axle weights are each listed along with the total empty weight.

I weighed my truck after filling the fuel tank on the way home from the dealership with me not in the cab. The initial trip across scales was a higher empty weight than that shown in the Dodge literature due to all the accessories that were factory installed. The actual weight was 7,360 pounds versus 7,211 pounds in the literature. I added the front and rear Curt hitches that weighed 120 pounds in total. The undercoating, paint sealer and mudflats, and protective film added another 280 pounds to the truck. Swapping all the steel suspension parts for an airbag suspension system added another 100 pounds to the truck weight. The fuel tank and more fuel added another 140 pounds to the truck. The bed camper top and running boards added another 340 pounds to the truck weight.

At each step I could see where the weight was distributed to both axles.

So, when I hooked up the trailer for another scale exercise with the complete rig, I knew where the truck numbers were so I could manipulate the weight distribution aspects of the Hensley/ProPride hitch for best results.

I suggest this attention to weights is a very important exercise to ensure that both the trailer and the tow vehicle are properly loaded for safe operation.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:46 AM   #696
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Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
I have load range E 20's on my F350.Michelin makes them.As long as your wheels have a high enough load rating, you may only need tires.


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I can't find them in my particular size. Maybe I can get 10 mm bigger?
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:02 AM   #697
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
Door stickers do not reflect any "modifications" done by the dealership to enhance profit - undercoating, fancier radio, window coloring, running boards, fancier wheels or tires etc. Some of these items add weight to the vehicle and thus reduce the real payload by that amount. So 50 pounds of undercoating reduced your actual payload capacity by 50 pounds.

The reality is that even the door sticker needs to be checked for accuracy by taking the vehicle across a set of CAT scales (certified accurate) with a full fuel tank and no driver inside the cab when weighing the vehicle. That scale report is then the real starting point for all future calculations as the front axle and rear axle weights are each listed along with the total empty weight.

I weighed my truck after filling the fuel tank on the way home from the dealership with me not in the cab. The initial trip across scales was a higher empty weight than that shown in the Dodge literature due to all the accessories that were factory installed. The actual weight was 7,360 pounds versus 7,211 pounds in the literature. I added the front and rear Curt hitches that weighed 120 pounds in total. The undercoating, paint sealer and mudflats, and protective film added another 280 pounds to the truck. Swapping all the steel suspension parts for an airbag suspension system added another 100 pounds to the truck weight. The fuel tank and more fuel added another 140 pounds to the truck. The bed camper top and running boards added another 340 pounds to the truck weight.

At each step I could see where the weight was distributed to both axles.

So, when I hooked up the trailer for another scale exercise with the complete rig, I knew where the truck numbers were so I could manipulate the weight distribution aspects of the Hensley/ProPride hitch for best results.

I suggest this attention to weights is a very important exercise to ensure that both the trailer and the tow vehicle are properly loaded for safe operation.
I can't imagine a different radio or window tint would add enough weight to matter. More speakers or amps maybe, but today's equipment is much lighter. Would an aluminum 20" wheel weigh more than a steel 16" wheel? The bigger tires weigh more.
The crew cab has less payload than the extended cab has less payload than the regular cab-
Power seats weigh more than manually adjustable seats. Do leather seats weigh more than cloth seats? Sometimes higher level trim has more padding in the seats.
Electrically controlled tilt and telescoping wheel weighs more than manually adjustable tilt wheel.
Head rest monitors, flip down screens, and moon roofs add weight.
The big motor weighs more than the smaller motor.
The 1794/Platinum/Limited/SR5/TSS weigh more than a base model.
Take an already marginal 1/2 ton according to Cat scales and then add a bed cover and a bed step-
Every little thing added, like parking sensors adds a little weight.
When I bought my truck, I immediately added hood protector, fender flares, door sill protectors, rubber floor mats, bedliner, exhaust tip, and stereo equipment. The stereo grew and grew over the years. Then the tonneau and bed step came after the last trip across the Cat scale. Basically, our fully loaded trucks cost us in weight/payload vs. a base model.
Every option adds weight.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:13 AM   #698
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Maybe Toyota adds a lot of sound deadening for the higher trim packages but I can't imagine that adds a lot of weight but like my monthly credit card bill, $20 or $30 here and there adds up quickly.

Side steps are a necessity on a pickup and they aren't that light. They are not always on the truck from the factory.

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Old 08-01-2015, 05:10 PM   #699
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With 18" wheels and Michelin load range E LTX M+S2 tires, I run 45 in the front and 48 psi in the rear while towing. I reduce the pressure 3 lbs. when not towing. These numbers came from a discussion with a Michelin guy when I called Michelin. Those pressures work fine and the tires wear perfectly. If you max out the psi (80 lbs) you will get a harder ride.

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Old 08-10-2015, 04:42 PM   #700
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long bed v short bed?

lots of replies here, tried a quick search .. Tundra has 6' & 8' beds .. anything to be aware of ? ease of use, towing, parking, turning circle etc etc ?

i need a quad cab, so the long bed would make for a very long vehicle when towing a 31' trailer too!


thanks !!
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