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Old 08-29-2008, 07:56 PM   #57
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(Hello? Pushrod V8? LEAF SPRINGS and DRUM BRAKES??!!?)
Damn right...tried and true, works good, lasts a long time!

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If you look at where all the profits from one sale of one vehicle of ANY brand or country of origin go, you'll see that the local chain benefits WAY more than the manufacturer.
Yep, and I still say, and it can't be denied, the NET profit from the sale of the vehicle goes to Japan.

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It tells me that Toyota learns from their mistakes and is willing to modify a relatively new product, which is a lot more than can be said for the domestic manufacturers, who seem to be unwilling to modify even an OLD product.
Well, it tells me that Toyota engineering is substandard.

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This thread is full of hype and innuendo, but no actual facts
How about this fact: We took a little "trip" this summer with our truck, 23' Airstream in tow for a month, 30 days to be exact, to Alaska and back, and drove 11,079 miles over roads you would not even believe, and all without one single incident. Not even a hint of a problem at all with the truck. The trailer, however, is another story....roads were so rough the medicine cabinet fell off the wall and broke into several pieces. The microwave oven which rode all the way to the Yukon mounted atop the refrigirator with Velcro from San Antonio, bounced off and broke on the floor. Texas has no such roads, but they do in Alaska. The only thing that happened to the truck was a chip in the windshield from flying gravel....hardly the fault of the truck.

Now, that's a FACT! When your TOYota makes such a trip successfully, come and tell me about it.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:10 PM   #58
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Toyota Tundra "debate"?

I learned how to work on automobiles and trucks owning Chevrolets and Fords. It is difficult to debate the quality of a brand unless you have experience to compare.

People vote with their hard earned dollars. That is for the finished product and the stock values of a company.

I will purchase Toyota vehicles as long as the quality and value is there. Reading some of the statements made by forum members against Toyota owners giving their experiences on this forum are disgraceful. This is a Toyota Tundra forum. Go and make your exaggerations of your current brand on another forum. Your statements will not change my mind as to what products are superior in my experiences.

I tow a 23 foot Safari with my 5.7L 4x4 double cab 2008 Tundra. I would not hesitate to pull a 25 foot Airstream with my Tundra. If someone in the Denver area is curious about how a Tundra would pull a longer Airstream, contact me, I am also curious if a 28 foot Airstream is just as much a cream puff to pull through the Rockies as smaller models. First, I want to ride with you to see how your tow vehicle is handling to begin with...

With nearly 12,000 miles on my 6 month old Tundra, I can report no problems or complaints. The drive from Cheyenne, Wyoming to Denver, Colorado today averaged 13.5 mpg with the trailer in tow.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:35 PM   #59
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I would

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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
"Endless" indeed. The original question was about a 31' Classic. I love my Tundra, but wouldn't tow a 31' Classic with it. Case closed.

Gene
From what I see with my Tundra I would tow a 31, heck I have a 30, 29 and 18 and saw a 34 being pulled in Yellowstone with a Tundra. No question the truck will be OK. I have had 3 Chevys and one with an 8.1 and two with the 5.7 and the Toyota 5.7 with the 6 speed puts the 5.7 Chevy to shame. the 8.1 well hell its a big truck.

Buy one, american made in Indiana in a plant that is 10 times more safe and clean than any GM plant, been in them all. AND most of all less manpower to build it so I don't have to worry about a Monday/Friday build, robots don't get hangovers!
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:03 PM   #60
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Huh? You need to check your facts

....
There's also a serious lack of actual FACTS coming out in the arguments against the Tundra. For example, rangebowdrie says: "The import brand "trucks", are short wheelbase, lightweight, low payload vehicles." When in fact, the Tundra DoubleCab has a 145.7" wheelbase. That's more than 10" longer than the F-150 (132.5") and Silverado 1500 (133.9"), and 5" longer than the Ram 1500 (140.5") (All models have the largest V8 offered in the model line and an extended cab. Numbers from Edmunds.com). How are we to believe anything else you say when you can't even be bothered to look that up?
....

You should have gone to the manufacturers website to get your facts correct. As a Ford owner I checked the F-150 Ford sight and see you're incorrect about wheelbase lengths.

You can buy an F-150 Supercrew 4x4 with a 151" wheelbase. Last time I checked that's more than the Toyota Tundra's 145.7".

Now let's talk about capacities and the reason I could not justify buying a Jap truck.

You're Toyota Tundra has a max payload capability of 1580 lbs.

I tried finding the actual GVWR and hitch weight on that new 28' Flying Cloud but couldn't find it on the Airstream website.

So I used the Ocean Breeze 28'. It looks to me like the hitch weighs around 800 lbs.

1580
- 800
780

26.5 gallons of fuel = 230 pounds

You are now down to 550 pounds.

How many people are going to be in the truck? I have a family of 4 and a 50 pound dog with a topper that weighs 180 pounds.

That works out to be 730 pounds. I have now exceeded the Toyota Tundra's maximum payload capacity and we haven't put a thing in the bed of the truck except the dog. Haven't even included a 30 pound bag of food, his kennel or any of the other things that make traveling with your Airstream a pleasure.

I plan on buying two Honda E2000s and the combined weight is another 94 pounds plus a 10 gallon gas can is another 86 pounds.

Now let's look at the F-150. The SuperCrew 4x4 has a payload capacity of 1630 lbs or SuperCrew 4x2 with 1750 lbs. However, if you need payload capacity you can get an F-150 with up to 3080 pounds. Not even an option for the Tundra.

As you can plainly see the F-150 has more real truck hauling options but what is really apparent about any of the 1/2 ton trucks as compared to the 3/4 ton trucks is REAL TRUCK capability in payload capacities.

And the last time I checked Toyota doesn't make one.
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:06 PM   #61
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[quote=Ray Eklund;609985]

This is a Toyota Tundra forum. Go and make your exaggerations of your current brand on another forum. Your statements will not change my mind as to what products are superior in my experiences.

Holy cow I thought this was a Airstream Forum.
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:11 PM   #62
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Another thing I would like to point out is ... If you have to ask if it will Tow It? then you must be questioning it also... I have never been in that position, and I love my Super Duty
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:16 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post

You should have gone to the manufacturers website to get your facts correct. As a Ford owner I checked the F-150 Ford sight and see you're incorrect about wheelbase lengths.

You can buy an F-150 Supercrew 4x4 with a 151" wheelbase. Last time I checked that's more than the Toyota Tundra's 145.7".
Thanks for the tip, but my facts are correct. I deliberately picked a model and configuration which seems to be pretty common. You're not going to find too many long-bed, double cab trucks with payload packages on dealer lots in any brand.

I checked Ford's site as well, and you can actually get an F-150 with a 163" wheelbase, just like you can get a Tundra with a 164.6" wheelbase. (Huh... Still longer than the F-150.) Please don't accuse me of not doing my homework unless you first do your own.

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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
Now let's talk about capacities and the reason I could not justify buying a Jap truck.
I think your use of the phrase "Jap truck" is indication enough of why you wouldn't buy one.

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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
You're Toyota Tundra has a max payload capability of 1580 lbs.
Yep.

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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
I tried finding the actual GVWR and hitch weight on that new 28' Flying Cloud but couldn't find it on the Airstream website.
Neither can I, and it's frustrating! Get us some info, Airstream!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
So I used the Ocean Breeze 28'. It looks to me like the hitch weighs around 800 lbs.

1580
- 800
780

26.5 gallons of fuel = 230 pounds
Slight correction -- it only holds 20 gallons of gas. The capacities listed on the website are UK gallons. I actually called Toyota to find out what was up, and that was their explanation.

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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
You are now down to 550 pounds.

How many people are going to be in the truck? I have a family of 4 and a 50 pound dog with a topper that weighs 180 pounds.
Only two of us and a 50 lb. dog. And we travel light. I'm confident we can come in under the limit, but I see your point.

Doesn't a weight distribution hitch reduce the effective tongue weight? What's the percentage there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
That works out to be 730 pounds. I have now exceeded the Toyota Tundra's maximum payload capacity and we haven't put a thing in the bed of the truck except the dog. Haven't even included a 30 pound bag of food, his kennel or any of the other things that make traveling with your Airstream a pleasure.
Your needs are different from mine. The Tundra isn't a good choice for you, and I don't recommend you buy one.

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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
I plan on buying two Honda E2000s and the combined weight is another 94 pounds plus a 10 gallon gas can is another 86 pounds.
I'll probably get a couple of those, too. They put me closer to my limit, but still not over it. And I can probably buy gas wherever we're going.

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Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
Now let's look at the F-150. The SuperCrew 4x4 has a payload capacity of 1630 lbs or SuperCrew 4x2 with 1750 lbs. However, if you need payload capacity you can get an F-150 with up to 3080 pounds. Not even an option for the Tundra.
When did we get on to 4x4s? I guess it doesn't matter, but for the record, Toyota has a payload package available as well.

Also, when I build an F-150 SuperCrew Long Bed, the max payload package (which is apparently standard with a Long Bed) is only listed at 2700 lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpandorf View Post
As you can plainly see the F-150 has more real truck hauling options but what is really apparent about any of the 1/2 ton trucks as compared to the 3/4 ton trucks is REAL TRUCK capability in payload capacities.

And the last time I checked Toyota doesn't make one.
What I plainly see is two very capable 1/2 ton trucks. Each can be configured differently, and when you make an effort to compare as close to identical vehicles as possible, they come out pretty damn close. (I'm not sure what you're calling "real truck hauling options" -- It seems to me that the two are nearly identical in terms of capabilities.)

And again, I say who's talking about 3/4 ton trucks? We're talking about Toyota Tundras, a 1/2 ton truck. You can't compare the capabilities of a 1/2 ton truck to a 3/4 ton.

Is the F-150 a 3/4 ton truck? What the hell is a 3/4 ton truck vs. a 1/2 ton truck, anyway? Is it payload capacity? In that case, they're both 3/4 ton trucks. (1500 lbs. == 3/4 of a ton.) It's not vehicle base weight, since they all weigh well over that. It's obviously not towing capacity, since most of them tow well over 4 tons.

Anyway, this has been an interesting discussion. I'm still not convinced that the Tundra is any worse than any of the domestics in terms of actual statistics. As someone else has said, you're going to tow with what you're comfortable with, and if that means someone wants a F-350 Super Duty for a 25' trailer, then so be it. It's their money and gas bill.
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:26 PM   #64
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Damn right...tried and true, works good, lasts a long time!
Apparently so... That's why the Mustang still has a solid rear axle and can't keep up with European performance cars on anything with curves. American stubbornness at it's finest!



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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Yep, and I still say, and it can't be denied, the NET profit from the sale of the vehicle goes to Japan.
We're going to have to just disagree on that point. I'm talking about all the ancillary things that go on around the vehicle, but if you want to just talk about the initial sale of the vehicle to the US subsidiary or dealer, then yes, you're right.



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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Well, it tells me that Toyota engineering is substandard.
And Ford will leave vehicles on the street that they KNOW are substandardly engineered (Early 90's Crown Vic), viewing the potential loss of life due to shoddy engineering as cheaper than redesigning their product. Again, an example of stubbornness and hubris that does no one any good.



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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
How about this fact: We took a little "trip" this summer with our truck, 23' Airstream in tow for a month, 30 days to be exact, to Alaska and back, and drove 11,079 miles over roads you would not even believe, and all without one single incident. Not even a hint of a problem at all with the truck. The trailer, however, is another story....roads were so rough the medicine cabinet fell off the wall and broke into several pieces. The microwave oven which rode all the way to the Yukon mounted atop the refrigirator with Velcro from San Antonio, bounced off and broke on the floor. Texas has no such roads, but they do in Alaska. The only thing that happened to the truck was a chip in the windshield from flying gravel....hardly the fault of the truck.

Now, that's a FACT! When your TOYota makes such a trip successfully, come and tell me about it.
I'd love to make that trip... I hope my Airstream holds up better than yours did. I have no doubt that a Toyota would be more than capable of handling just such a trip.

(Again, the juvenile digs -- "TOYota" instead of Toyota -- speak volumes about your willingness to even consider the Tundra, and your preconceived notions about it.)
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:30 PM   #65
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Hey Steve H how was that trip to Alaska?? I always wanted to go up and see the Northern Lights. Teenage kid and job doesnt allow it yet. My freinds Mom and Dad went up, they told simmular stories rough roads ect. Broke out a few windows on there Airstream..
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Old 08-30-2008, 02:36 PM   #66
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Hey Mac why drag me into your JAP CRAP whinning I have a solid back axles because I can and I will. Like I have said in the past Chain um up. hell I will even hook to my Airstream first. Hu Also I am more of a straight line kinda guy (DragRacing)I will leave drifting for the kids
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:38 PM   #67
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Some facts

The 28' 2008 Safari has a hitch weight of 830 lbs, I presume the '09 Flying Cloud is the same.

The Tundra gas tank holds 26.4 gallons. Imperial gallons once used in the UK were 5 quarts and thus a Tundra would hold a bit over 21 Imperial gallons.

When I was investigating the Tundra, I am pretty sure I saw somewhere in the company literature that they took into account a full gas tank and maybe even coolant when they stated the payload. So you can add that several hundred pounds back to payload. I can't remember where I read it so I can't give you a citation. Depending which model you buy, payload ranges from 1350 to 2065.

Yes, a weight distributing hitch shifts some of the weight back to the trailer axles (maybe about 1/3) and the rest forward to both axles of the truck. Somewhere on a thread about hitches are formulae for computing the exact numbers. If I understand it correctly, that would lower the effective tongue weight of the 28' Safari to something less than 600 lbs.

In have owned 6 Toyotas, 3 pickups and 3 SUV's (which are trucks with a different body). Hardly anything goes wrong with them and some of them never had even one thing wrong with them. They do anything I ask of them. Each succeeding model is better than the last. I can remember owing 2 US trucks and 2 US cars. The '56 Mercury was my first car and it was probably no worse built than anything in those days. My '72 Chevy pickup was a really basic truck and quite good though it sure used a ton of gas. I had a mid 70's International 3/4 ton that was undoubtedly the worst thing I ever owned, but I got it cheap 2nd hand. The '85 Olds Toronado I inherited in '95 with 21,000 miles was a piece of junk. The company that made that '72 Chevy seemed to be completely different by '85. Yesterday GM recalled a million vehicles, including trucks, because of possible fires.

If some of you can't accept that Toyota builds good trucks, so be it. If you want to insult a whole nation, mustang (i.e., "Jap Crap"), I suggest to keep it to yourself and not post on the Forum. Personally I find some of your remarks offensive.

Gene
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Old 08-30-2008, 06:05 PM   #68
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I think this page should be removed I will stick up for my self when dragged into this mess, I dont care how many toyotas youve owned Gene.
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:12 PM   #69
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I copied this from another thread
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:44 PM   #70
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The 28' 2008 Safari has a hitch weight of 830 lbs, I presume the '09 Flying Cloud is the same...Yes, a weight distributing hitch shifts some of the weight back... If I understand it correctly, that would lower the effective tongue weight of the 28' Safari to something less than 600 lbs...
disclaimer....i'm not picking on you gene, but only addressing the facts offered in your post.

the published tongue mass on the company website is an ESTIMATE only ...

and doesn't include lpgas (another 60-80lbs) or trailer options or the effect from FLUIDs and cargo...

or the HITCH APPARATUS weight

and may not include the spare tire (since the tire used to be an option and only recently became standard)...

so is that "830 lbs" from company data or an owner who has WEIGHED the 28 model in question LOADED?

sorry but w/d equipment DOES NOT change the tongue mass.

"effective tongue weight" is a made up notion, that begs definition and acknowledgement...

from the engineers who rate trucks, make hitches and receivers and trailers frames or trailers...

i've not seen ANY of those folks use or endorse (or even explain) that terminology...

one does NOT GAIN payload capacity or alter real tongue weight using w/d gear...

infact w/d gear INCREASES the stress and LOAD parameters at the receiver/hitch...

this stress/load/force can be increased as much as 500-1500 lbs ABOVE the actual tongue weight....

in order to redistribute axle loading...

so we should not accept or believe in any way, shape or form, that w/d gear lowers tongue weight, because it doesn't.

payload IS payload and tongue mass IS whatever it is.

axle weights (all off them) and tv weight + trailer weight add UP to the SAME TOTAL...

we've had folks occasionally suggest/hope they can increase or alter or discount the tongue mass...

in marginal situations (or with frankly the ratings setups) using w/d gear...

it ain't so.
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the o.p. was looking for reports from folks towing a newer 31 with the new 'yota...

i see none, and would not try that combo, for exactly the reasons dpandorf has laid out.

'ninja stirred d pot (without any actual facts, but preaching 'bout others misusing them...pot-kettle-black) imo...

he is years or a long time from buying any 'stream but right now likes 25s...

the 25s go fine with the RATING on the new halftondra, JUST BARELY or following the 80% notion.

BUT he wants to buy a truck in advance that he's sure will tow WHATEVER 'stream ultimately selected. right?

following that logic...

suggests the need to buy a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, just in case u opt for a 30/slide, 34 or 34/slide or pan america 'stream...

now back to the silly brand, country and 'mine is better' stuff...

cheers
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